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ALPApolicy
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Post by ALPApolicy »

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Last edited by ALPApolicy on Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
altiplano
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Re: MAKE ALPA REGIONAL AGAIN

Post by altiplano »

What you need is roll call voting at ALPA-C.

The existing one airline, one vote arrangement doesn't exist anywhere else in ALPA. Only in the Group C Canada Board. That was a problem at CALPA too and part of the reason AC Pilots left.

In the merger talks with ACPA, that was an important issue, ALPA-C reorganization with will call voting smoking other things was negotiated and voted on with unanimous approval at the ALPA big table in '18, but was ultimately shelved after political manoeuvring from 2 particular MECs in ALPA-C in the ALPA President election at the end of '18, over the influence they would have lost with ACPA merger.

Under the roll call negotiated structure WJ & AC Pilots together would have a majority say in all ALPA-C affairs and direction. That's the way it should be, the most members, the most dues, the leaders of this profession in Canada. No more tail wagging the dog.

Maybe Tim Perry should engage with the new AC MEC Chair, reaffirm the negotiated terms, and let's get the merger done and ALPA on the big tracks in this country.
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ALPApolicy
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Re: MAKE ALPA REGIONAL AGAIN

Post by ALPApolicy »

altiplano wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:54 pm What you need is roll call voting at ALPA-C.

The existing one airline, one vote arrangement doesn't exist anywhere else in ALPA. Only in the Group C Canada Board. That was a problem at CALPA too and part of the reason AC Pilots left.

In the merger talks with ACPA, that was an important issue, ALPA-C reorganization with will call voting smoking other things was negotiated and voted on with unanimous approval at the ALPA big table in '18, but was ultimately shelved after political manoeuvring from 2 particular MECs in ALPA-C in the ALPA President election at the end of '18, over the influence they would have lost with ACPA merger.

Under the roll call negotiated structure WJ & AC Pilots together would have a majority say in all ALPA-C affairs and direction. That's the way it should be, the most members, the most dues, the leaders of this profession in Canada. No more tail wagging the dog.

Maybe Tim Perry should engage with the new AC MEC Chair, reaffirm the negotiated terms, and let's get the merger done and ALPA on the big tracks in this country.
ALPA has sold the seniority of WSW/WJA pilots and collaborated with our employer to do so. They will do the same thing to SunWing pilots.

ALPA is a great union for Canadian regional airlines. Let's

MAKE ALPA REGIONAL AGAIN
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altiplano
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Re: MAKE ALPA REGIONAL AGAIN

Post by altiplano »

ALPApolicy wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 5:44 pm
altiplano wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:54 pm What you need is roll call voting at ALPA-C.

The existing one airline, one vote arrangement doesn't exist anywhere else in ALPA. Only in the Group C Canada Board. That was a problem at CALPA too and part of the reason AC Pilots left.

In the merger talks with ACPA, that was an important issue, ALPA-C reorganization with will call voting smoking other things was negotiated and voted on with unanimous approval at the ALPA big table in '18, but was ultimately shelved after political manoeuvring from 2 particular MECs in ALPA-C in the ALPA President election at the end of '18, over the influence they would have lost with ACPA merger.

Under the roll call negotiated structure WJ & AC Pilots together would have a majority say in all ALPA-C affairs and direction. That's the way it should be, the most members, the most dues, the leaders of this profession in Canada. No more tail wagging the dog.

Maybe Tim Perry should engage with the new AC MEC Chair, reaffirm the negotiated terms, and let's get the merger done and ALPA on the big tracks in this country.
ALPA has sold the seniority of WSW/WJA pilots and collaborated with our employer to do so. They will do the same thing to SunWing pilots.

ALPA is a great union for Canadian regional airlines. Let's

MAKE ALPA REGIONAL AGAIN
ALPA did that?
Wasn't that happening before you even unionised?
Didn't WJ Pilots vote that in?
Maybe you should look at voting that out now...

Seems it's only a WJ problem as I pointed out in your other thread. It's not that way at Delta, United, Alaska, Fedex, etc etc...

Maybe it's an ALPA Group C Canada problem too that needs to be fixed with roll call voting... Get a say proportional to your size of groups contribution, your number of members...

The drop in the bucket of dues and say at ALPA that is everyone else other than the Group A ALPA airlines would suggest that ALPA is not and never was "regional" so can't make it so again ..
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ALPApolicy
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Re: MAKE ALPA REGIONAL AGAIN

Post by ALPApolicy »

Unfortunately, ALPA represents both mainline and connector pilots and this has proven to be a clear conflict of interest.

It is not as easy as one might think to change leadership within ALPA.

I think the idea of joining ACPA is the greatest idea I've had in a long time. ACPA knows how to defend seniority. ALPA only knows how to sell it.
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altiplano
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Re: MAKE ALPA REGIONAL AGAIN

Post by altiplano »

Same questions:

Wasn't that happening before you even unionised? (PTA)
Didn't WJ Pilots vote that in?

and,

Are Delta, United, and Alaska concerned with their seniority getting sold out by ALPA?

NO! Of course not, because they would never agree to that. Their regionals would never expect it either, they're just happy if they get preferred interviews... WJ Pilots chose your PTA/flow... what a mess it sounds like... why reinvent the seniority wheel?
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ALPApolicy
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Re: MAKE ALPA REGIONAL AGAIN

Post by ALPApolicy »

altiplano wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 7:06 pm Same questions:

Wasn't that happening before you even unionised? (PTA)
Didn't WJ Pilots vote that in?

and,

Are Delta, United, and Alaska concerned with their seniority getting sold out by ALPA?

NO! Of course not, because they would never agree to that. Their regionals would never expect it either, they're just happy if they get preferred interviews... WJ Pilots chose your PTA/flow... what a mess it sounds like... why reinvent the seniority wheel?
Yes, the WJPA and the company cooked up the One List before we certified. But when we certified, all of a sudden there were legal obligations in place that did not exist when were not organized.

All that the MEC had to do when we certified and negotiated our CBA was follow the ALPA Constitution. Didn't I and every WestJet pilot have a right to expect that ALPA would follow its own rules?

I don't know precisely why this happened. But it did happen and our MEC has lost its way if they ever knew it. (At least as far as looking out for your own bargaining unit members goes)

I guess SunWing pilots will have to decide if their seniority is better protected by ALPA or by ACPA or by another union. The problem is a practical one. Which union has enough political appeal to replace ALPA? The only one I see is ACPA?

In the end, it always comes down to the people involved. The people we put in place in our MEC continued to be derelict in their obligations to the bargaining unit members.

Finally, why can't I see my own goddam seniority list????? It is Labour Unions 101.
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lostaviator
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Re: MAKE ALPA REGIONAL AGAIN

Post by lostaviator »

John, I admire your dedication to this cause. I wish all the members of our group took 0.00001% of the time you take to educate themselves. BUT I have to ask - What is motivating you to dedicate so much time to this cause? You aren't directly affected by any Encore pilot flowing over with a spot on the WPDL, nor will you be affected by a merger with Sunwing (given your tenure).

Again. Admire the effort, but I have to ask what is behind it.
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ALPApolicy
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Re: MAKE ALPA REGIONAL AGAIN

Post by ALPApolicy »

Hi.

I may be on the spectrum. I might be OCD. I don't know. I haven't been assessed by anyone nor has anyone suggest I get an assessment, and I haven't had alcohol or mood altering substances in 8 and a half years.

I walked away from this issue when we certified and agin when they passed the PTA. When the OTS members themselves decided not to protect their own interests I said, okay, we're done.

But this merger. This is a clear threat to our bargaining unit. I am somewhat pissed off at whoever in the company dreamt this up in the first place. They placed us on a collision course to pit pilot against pilot. I am still supportive of management, generally, but they set this whole bloody thing up and used it as a carrot to entice Encore pilots instead of negotiating proper wages, and now decide we are to merge with another group. That is unfair.

So then I start looking at the PTA and comparing it with the CBA. And I ask simple, very simple questions. For instance, is the Merger Committee going to be representing the pilots in our bargaining unit and ONLY the pilots in our bargaining unit? I don't think they will. The MEC has proven that they will place the interests of pilots outside of our bargaining unit AHEAD of our own.

Further, the fact that they will not follow the Constitution is reprehensible. Their duties are clear.

If you spend time reading how ACPA fought for its members, you will understand how it is supposed to be. No system is perfect, but we have tried to think out of the box and ignored ALPA policy and I think it is the height of arrogance to think we know better than ALPA. And all ALPA said is we will go along with whatever you want...is that why we certified with them? So that we can do whatever we want and they will just sign the paper?

I'll stop. I need to sleep for my early check in and the time changes tomorrow.

Take care,

John
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