F35

[Mick G]

Curious for peoples thoughts on todays announcement for Canada to proceed with the 88 F35's. My concern is Canada's high arctic and single engine. I fear we will lose lives and assets in the far north I know there aren't many twin engine fighters produced, but the F22 and Super Hornet come to mind. With the latter, training and maintenance infrastructure is already in place. I'm just worried this is the wrong decision for Canada's northern geography, especially with Russia and the almost certain pushing of the envelope on arctic sovereignty

[digits_]

I understand your point, but it does feel a bit weird to be worried about an engine failure in a *fighter* jet.

[DHC-1 Jockey]

Other northern countries seem to be ordering the aircraft as well (Denmark, Finland, Norway, the U.S. in Alaska) so there must be pretty high confidence in that single engine.

[Mick G]

The area of operations that I am thinking about are high arctic sovereignty missions flown in the far north where access to runways is non existent for a large portion of the time. It differs from the Scandinavian countries as they are very small in terms of land mass, so they are never far form safety whereas in Canada's far north, it is a completely different story. Anyway, I guess time will tell, but if any engine failure occur up there, it will likely cause loss of a serviceman and asset.

[co-joe]

I love how the whole single engine aircraft argument was used against buying Vipers which we can afford, yet now we are buying F35s that we can not afford.

[Scout44]

I've been following the competition with interest over the years, and haven't been too concerned on the 1 vs 2 engine question. While I knew the F-35 was basically a foregone conclusion, I couldn't help but admire the Gripen as a scrappy underdog. Saabs' offer of IP transfer and domestic assembly were attractive as well, but that's history.

What I'll be watching for now in the negotiation process is to see, given world events, our massive deficits and inflation, etc. is if they'll actually place an order for the full 88 copies, or if that'll be scaled back somewhat. I also haven't heard much talk in the general media about the re-fueling issue since, unless I'm mistaken, the F-35A uses a boom, while our tankers are currently limited to probe-and-drogue. Will also be interesting to see if they can meet the schedule for the first delivery in 2025.

[schnitzel2k3]

I've been following the competition with interest over the years, and haven't been too concerned on the 1 vs 2 engine question. While I knew the F-35 was basically a foregone conclusion, I couldn't help but admire the Gripen as a scrappy underdog. Saabs' offer of IP transfer and domestic assembly were attractive as well, but that's history.

What I'll be watching for now in the negotiation process is to see, given world events, our massive deficits and inflation, etc. is if they'll actually place an order for the full 88 copies, or if that'll be scaled back somewhat. I also haven't heard much talk in the general media about the re-fueling issue since, unless I'm mistaken, the F-35A uses a boom, while our tankers are currently limited to probe-and-drogue. Will also be interesting to see if they can meet the schedule for the first delivery in 2025.

I feel like this is a case of 'Fine, sell us your overpriced dogshit - when it doesn't work and we can't meet our operational quota - it's on you'.

So disappointed that we couldn't try and change the course. I knew the F35 was going to happen despite it being too much in the acquisition department, too much hourly and too little operationally.

At least if we were going to go single engine - get a fighter we could afford long term.

[rookiepilot]

Isn’t this the aircraft the Liberals vowed they’d never buy because of the conservatives incompetence in looking at it?
More JT hypocrisy.

And what are we getting from the Americans for this? More energy sales? Pipeline agreements?

Nope. Nothing i’ve heard of.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/john-r ... -for-years

[AstroPants]

1) The single engine piece wasn't the deal-breaker for the Viper back when we acquired the Hornet. Back then, the Viper was essentially WVR only with no ability to carry a BVR/Radar missile. There are 2500ish Vipers out there in the world, and they fly or have flown in Arctic climates, and are constantly criss-crossing the oceans between USA, USAFE and PACAF with little issue.

2) F-35s currently operating in Alaska in same or similar conditions as our Northern operations. They are not NORAD assets, however. But the USAF has confidence to operate them in the North. The motor has redundancy upon redundancy. There will always be risk involved in Northern operations, but the probability of an engine issue occurring is already quite low, and to have that happen when on a Northern mission specifically is even more remote. It is not impossible, but it is not the massive risk everyone assumes.

3) Tanker is a non-issue. The CC-150T is all but at the end of its days as a Tanker. There is already a program in place to replace them with an interim buy of 330s that will be equipped to the NATO standard of both boom and drogue ops.

4) Economic benefit and cost was a significant portion of the evaluation. The difference may have been that the F-35 purchase price comes as a 'full up round' with all equipment required to go to war. Any other buy would have required purchasing of targeting pods, external tanks, EW equipment, and so on.

[Old fella]

F35 announcement is simply Political Science 101 timing.

[Mostly Harmless]

All this has happened before, and it is happening again.

EH 101 Cormorant.

[Col. Panic]

F35 announcement is simply Political Science 101 timing.

As in liberal government cancels orders, pays millions in cancellation fees, then orders the same machine, at an inflated cost.

[Old fella]

F35 announcement is simply Political Science 101 timing.

As in liberal government cancels orders, pays millions in cancellation fees, then orders the same machine, at an inflated cost.

Whatever… all of them no matter the political stripe are guilty and I have been around long enough to see that. Military procurement isn’t an issue sitting governments fall by confidence votes or election loss, the electorate isn’t that tuned in to military purchases when it comes time to mark their X. What happened in 2015 F35 debate means nothing now in 2022 because JT bought time, more to the point the F35 was going to be acquired simply because the RCAF wanted it and fair enough. It was a matter of opportunity and timing and he(JT) just got exactly that. Past few months with Russia and Ukrainian dust up, NATO commitments, ongoing debate about 2% contributions, criticism on such directed at us blah,blah…. The Government announces the expenditure of 19billion ++(because it will exceed that) of tax dollars to purchase 88 sophisticated advanced fighters which will be used to meet NATO commitments amongst other things if necessary in the future. The argument on acquisition comes off the table domestically as for NATO pontificating on our 2% of GDP which sources indicate it’s in the vicinity of 20billion per year for Canada,well that will generate raised Canadian eyebrows in lieu of our new F35 billions. There are views circulating the operating cost of these new fast movers will be through the roof and into orbit and that will be a future debate visa vie NATO and 2%.
I believe the “ drama teacher” played his “poker hand” as best he could, probably a flush or full house.

By your leave - over and out.

[oldncold]

Written many letters that canada should buy a smaller amount of f35 48 and a larger amount of J39e 88 since both are single engine and over our home turf stealth isnt as critical the j39e is a pure dog fighter with a very low radar signature do to its size . N can land on 3800 ft of gravel road rearmed n fueled in 20 min doctrine of war says u take out the airfields . The f35 is the correct choice for international ops in hostile territory . And as for the cost we blew 60 billion in first 60 days of covid pandemic . The left wing and socialist hordes never once said wait a minute thats is too much how we going to pay that back . . They never will. But thats for another day. . The next big thing is to get new submarines i can already hear the wailing from the dont spend money on our military. Crowd . They are like the childrens story of the chipmunk that started too late to put away a food cache . And died of starvation . Only thing is if you dont start now it may be our country that becomes the next ukraine. Especialy since we have no defense against hypersonic weapons . Alot of folks will die because the pacifist cum bye yah flower childer n their children treat our military as break glass only in emergency like a fire alarm

[Mick G]

Ahhahahah the chipmunk analogy....love it !!!!

[Winnikegger]

Having seen this fly at an airshow, this is fantastic news for Canada. Insane technology from Lockheed