5,6,7 Pay

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alkaseltzer
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Re: 5,6,7 Pay

Post by alkaseltzer »

North Shore wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:29 am *THREAD DRIFT*

What the EFF is the justification for the 4 years of flat pay? I made more than year 3 flying a !Navajo! in 2002!
Many of our swoop/westjet colleagues need to plan.
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elite
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Re: 5,6,7 Pay

Post by elite »

crj_705 wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:23 am
Could someone in-the-know please explain what ‘over-seas’ and ‘nav-aid’ pay are for? Are these premiums left-over from the dark ages of flying at AC? thanks
I think part of it was elimination of navigator position and also after B727, L1011 and other 3 crew aircraft, B737 and other 2 crew aircraft were being manufactured, so this was a way to capture some of that cost savings for the pilots since fewer were going to be needed. Also, these additions were creative ways to extract more money without “me too” challenges.
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altiplano
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Re: 5,6,7 Pay

Post by altiplano »

Overseas pay and international override pay aren't uncommon at large airlines.
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crj_705
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Re: 5,6,7 Pay

Post by crj_705 »

thanks for the info… :-)))
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Malfunction
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Re: 5,6,7 Pay

Post by Malfunction »

Aircanada pay rates
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tango308
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Re: 5,6,7 Pay

Post by tango308 »

Great info here, thanks for sharing.

Does AC have YOS when moving from FO -> CA or do CA start back at year 1?
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bob99
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Re: 5,6,7 Pay

Post by bob99 »

You keep your YOS
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Malfunction
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Re: 5,6,7 Pay

Post by Malfunction »

Any idea how long new upgraded cpts are on reserve for?
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Col. Panic
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Re: 5,6,7 Pay

Post by Col. Panic »

Malfunction wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 7:29 am Any idea how long new upgraded cpts are on reserve for?
Like my underwear, the answer is “depends”!

If you hold off upgrading until you are senior enough, you may not have to do much reserve at all… unless you want to. It is all seniority based, but some relatively senior pilots intentionally bid reserve for a variety of reasons. Probably less so now with the new reserve system.

If you are the most junior pilot in a category, the chances are that you will be stuck on reserve. Historically there were times (like December) where you could be too junior to hold a reserve block, but that is rare. So how long you spend on reserve depends upon how quickly they train pilots junior to you into the same position. If you happen to upgrade at the leading edge of a wave, you may be on reserve for a relatively short time, but if you are on the trailing edge, you may be at the bottom of the list for years!
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bob99
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Re: 5,6,7 Pay

Post by bob99 »

What ^ said. It's really impossible to say, especially right now because everything's still a mess from covid. There's generally 20 to maybe 30 pilots on rsv (in yyz) every month. Many will delay their upgrade for a year to avoid being at the very bottom. So if you bid captain right away, you're always gonna have guys parachuting in on top of you. And you never really know how long those guys are going to defer for.
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Rooster69
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Re: 5,6,7 Pay

Post by Rooster69 »

Malfunction wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 7:29 am Any idea how long new upgraded cpts are on reserve for?

Reserve is two vastly different worlds when comparing narrow body Vs. Wide body worlds. (I don’t mean pilot’s bodies). Narrow body was extremely painful. Never knew when you were done. You could arrive back at home base and be sent out on rapidair and layover.

Wide body, you are pretty much done when you get in.

Furthermore, the days of being on Reserve and not flying all month are gone due to ‘best fit’.
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Hangry
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Re: 5,6,7 Pay

Post by Hangry »

Rooster69 wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:29 am
Malfunction wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 7:29 am Any idea how long new upgraded cpts are on reserve for?

Reserve is two vastly different worlds when comparing narrow body Vs. Wide body worlds. (I don’t mean pilot’s bodies). Narrow body was extremely painful. Never knew when you were done. You could arrive back at home base and be sent out on rapidair and layover.

Wide body, you are pretty much done when you get in.

Furthermore, the days of being on Reserve and not flying all month are gone due to ‘best fit’.
The days of never knowing when you’re done are also gone. Can only extend 2hrs into GDO.
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Malfunction
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Re: 5,6,7 Pay

Post by Malfunction »

Any chance 4 yr flat pay can be fixed in 2025?
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PT6onH20
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Re: 5,6,7 Pay

Post by PT6onH20 »

Malfunction wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:41 pm Any chance 4 yr flat pay can be fixed in 2025?
Sure, we’ll start working on it just cause you asked.
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Malfunction
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Re: 5,6,7 Pay

Post by Malfunction »

PT6onH20 wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:09 am
Malfunction wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:41 pm Any chance 4 yr flat pay can be fixed in 2025?
Sure, we’ll start working on it just cause you asked.
:rolleyes:

Nice attitude
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Eric Janson
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Re: 5,6,7 Pay

Post by Eric Janson »

altiplano wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 12:06 pm Overseas pay and international override pay aren't uncommon at large airlines.
I've always earned a flat salary/mo - even at a Flag carrier. Same pay regardless of type flown.

I think it's a N American thing.
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Fanblade
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Re: 5,6,7 Pay

Post by Fanblade »

Malfunction wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:41 pm Any chance 4 yr flat pay can be fixed in 2025?
The list of things that need fixing is long. The shit representation that agreed to the mess, is not up to, or willing to fix it.

Currently there is a movement afloat to take us to ALPA. If that movement succeeds, we all have a shot at a better future.

If it fails? Expect more of the same.

Believe it or not there is actually substantial resistance to change within ACPA the union, and almost half of ACPA elected pilot reps. This despite the total train wreck our contract has become in comparison to industry standard.

ACPA is only just barely in transition away from being an extension of management after last falls election. Next fall there will be more elections. We could easily slip back if we fail to elect more unionists.

Hopefully that does not happen. But the opposition to change is very strong.

Realistically “catching back up” takes time. A lot of it. It took the Delta pilots over a decade to recover and catch back up after bankruptcy.

So will the mess be better in 2025? With the right representation yes. But realistically it will be a bunch of small steps in the right direction over a long period of time to fully recover.
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Malfunction
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Re: 5,6,7 Pay

Post by Malfunction »

Thank you
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Dingbatt
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Re: 5,6,7 Pay

Post by Dingbatt »

North Shore wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:29 am *THREAD DRIFT*

What the EFF is the justification for the 4 years of flat pay? I made more than year 3 flying a !Navajo! in 2002!
Seriously agree. It makes AC a really not appealing job. Seems like the classic "pay your dues" never ends in Canadian aviation.
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tango308
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Re: 5,6,7 Pay

Post by tango308 »

Malfunction wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:13 pm Aircanada pay rates
Do these 2022 base rate increase at 2% per annum?
Let say, today a year 5 FO is making 109.58. Someone starting today on the same fleet and position could see a 10% bump (5x2%) 5 years from now, making the base salary 120.53?

I hope my question is clear.

Thanks
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