DEC Posting

[faculties11]

Has anyone heard back from Jazz yet after applying for the DEC posting?

[CanadianPilotQc]

doubt one will hear back before they do an internal posting (standing bid).

[flyinhigh]

A lot of folks don't factor in the per diems in the comparatives.

I used to look at per diem as pocket change until I realized how much they added up over the year.

12 full block months will generate 800-1000$ tax free per month. That's nearly equivalent to an extra 20k gross. And for many pilots who carefully plan their pairings to spend as little as they can (unlike me haha), that's money going straight in their pocket.

Food for thought.

58

No that's 8-12K period. No bank will look at a perdiem, and if they did they certainly would not inflate the value of it.

[the-minister31]

doubt one will hear back before they do an internal posting (standing bid).

Does anybody have intel about when that would be happening?

[tango308]

Normally the next one should be in August. There is a possibility however that a bid is held earlier according to a MEC email received last week.

[Joe Blow Schmo]

I think I would need to start at year 34 captain pay to make that worthwhile.

Can some post the captain pay scales, is it status pay even on the EMJ?

If hired today:

Pay scale effective 01 July 2022 (all aircraft)

1. 84.89
2. 87.55
3. 91.79
4. 94.45
5. 98.70
6. 107.21
7. 109.89
8. 112.65
9. 115.46
10. 118.35
11. 121.31
12. 124.35
13. 127.46
14. 130.63
15. 133.91
16. 137.27
17. 140.69

[rudder]

I think I would need to start at year 34 captain pay to make that worthwhile.

If you think those numbers are bad, you should see the starting FO pay…….

[Rowdy]

All machines in the fleet fall under those YOS wages. The EMB is no exception.

Just a simple breakdown from someone on the property.

An AVERAGE month will see a blocking window between 80 and 85hrs.. and there is always a couple hours of block growth. I just looked at 2019 hours for me personally and I see I averaged 88.5hrs pay a month. 85hrs is the overtime trigger. Any WDO (worked day off) is 1.5x as well. I havent personally done one since 2018 when my little one was born. I've seen some people as high as 120 credits a month! But thats not for me either. I don't bid anything weird to get high credit. Basically just days off for childcare. A pretty ho hum average line driver.

So year 1. 84.89 x 85 = 7215 x 12 = 86,587.

3.5 x 84.89 = 297 x 1.5 = 445 x 12 = 5348.

Soooo an average year at year one pay.. without being an OT slave grosses over 90k.

Don't forget the ESOP match 50% of the 6% you purchased of your gross. The shoe and uniform maintenance allowance and a myriad of other things. I'd imagine a year one captain is right at 100k gross!

I average 1300/month in per diems as a Q capt. Not that we 'count' those. Just a nice little bonus.

YMMV.

[Inthrustwetrust]

Yr 4 cpt pay scale and with a little OT I have had $5500-$6000 months after taxes.

Add in 1200-1500 In perdiums. It's pretty good $$$. ESPECIALLY when those ot days are 1 leg each day

[flyingcanuck]

And alot of guys don't include the fact that they are putting the maximum contribution into ESOP and RRSPs. That's alot of free money getting back to you albeit down the road

[Outlaw58]

And alot of guys don't include the fact that they are putting the maximum contribution into ESOP and RRSPs. That's alot of free money getting back to you albeit down the road

+1

58

[Joe Blow Schmo]

So did the pay scales increase when the EMB joined the fleet and as the smaller Dashes are removed since the average aircraft size increased?

All machines in the fleet fall under those YOS wages. The EMB is no exception.

[flyingcanuck]

So did the pay scales increase when the EMB joined the fleet and as the smaller Dashes are removed since the average aircraft size increased?

All machines in the fleet fall under those YOS wages. The EMB is no exception.

No they have always all been the same pay scale. No raise other than "inflation". It was done during COVID without a vote because they know we would have voted it down. We really need a raise though

[Inverted2]

We are all getting HUGE pay cuts when you consider what our benefits are now costing us. I’m taking home less than I was 2 years ago and don’t get me started about inflation……

2% yearly raise. “real” inflation likely 15%.

[Stinky]

Those benefit premiums are a shocker. I fly for a U.S. airline and have “Cadillac “ benefits at my company. Family coverage for me and my wife and kids is $450 USD a month. That’s with no socialized healthcare in the US.

[JHR]

A few koolaid drinkers here. Those wages are brutal especially for the Embraer. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[genetic jack hammer]

A few koolaid drinkers here. Those wages are brutal especially for the Embraer. Sorry to burst your bubble.

...and yet again, they'll be no shortage of applicants, with the carrot stick being the chance of an interview at mainline.

[rudder]

A few koolaid drinkers here. Those wages are brutal especially for the Embraer. Sorry to burst your bubble.

...and yet again, they'll be no shortage of applicants, with the carrot stick being the chance of an interview at mainline.

Bingo.

There are 2 Jazz’s. One with tenured pilots making good money (reasonable pay rates) and another comprised of the pilots in year 1-5 who’s goal is the virtually assured path to AC (notwithstanding AC’s previous creation of a new interview result which was neither a job offer nor a rejection. It said ‘reapply in 6 months’). And there are some pilots stuck between these two groups.

Ultimately the market will dictate compensation. There is a drawer full of applications at Jazz. But they aren’t all 2500+ hour ATPL. Compensation will dictate applicant qualification. Even Porter has recognized that, and they are not unionized. But Porter desperately wants the E2 program to succeed.

The airlines in Canada need to accept that they will have to compete for pilot labour resources, or accept the inability to maintain or increase operations. Only carrier that might be exempt from this paradigm is AC.

[qwe221sd]

A few koolaid drinkers here. Those wages are brutal especially for the Embraer. Sorry to burst your bubble.

...and yet again, they'll be no shortage of applicants, with the carrot stick being the chance of an interview at mainline.

Bingo.

There are 2 Jazz’s. One with tenured pilots making good money (reasonable pay rates) and another comprised of the pilots in year 1-5 who’s goal is the virtually assured path to AC (notwithstanding AC’s previous creation of a new interview result which was neither a job offer nor a rejection. It said ‘reapply in 6 months’). And there are some pilots stuck between these two groups.

Ultimately the market will dictate compensation. There is a drawer full of applications at Jazz. But they aren’t all 2500+ hour ATPL. Compensation will dictate applicant qualification. Even Porter has recognized that, and they are not unionized. But Porter desperately wants the E2 program to succeed.

The airlines in Canada need to accept that they will have to compete for pilot labour resources, or accept the inability to maintain or increase operations. Only carrier that might be exempt from this paradigm is AC.

I don't think so. Airlines always can lower their requirement , they can hire CPL 250 hours directly.And It's happening.
Do you think there's a shortage of cpl fresh guys?

[RegionalPilot]

...and yet again, they'll be no shortage of applicants, with the carrot stick being the chance of an interview at mainline.

Bingo.

There are 2 Jazz’s. One with tenured pilots making good money (reasonable pay rates) and another comprised of the pilots in year 1-5 who’s goal is the virtually assured path to AC (notwithstanding AC’s previous creation of a new interview result which was neither a job offer nor a rejection. It said ‘reapply in 6 months’). And there are some pilots stuck between these two groups.

Ultimately the market will dictate compensation. There is a drawer full of applications at Jazz. But they aren’t all 2500+ hour ATPL. Compensation will dictate applicant qualification. Even Porter has recognized that, and they are not unionized. But Porter desperately wants the E2 program to succeed.

The airlines in Canada need to accept that they will have to compete for pilot labour resources, or accept the inability to maintain or increase operations. Only carrier that might be exempt from this paradigm is AC.

I don't think so. Airlines always can lower their requirement , they can hire CPL 250 hours directly.And It's happening.
Do you think there's a shortage of cpl fresh guys?

There’s a shortage of captains. Not FOs.

[tbaylx]

...and yet again, they'll be no shortage of applicants, with the carrot stick being the chance of an interview at mainline.

Bingo.

There are 2 Jazz’s. One with tenured pilots making good money (reasonable pay rates) and another comprised of the pilots in year 1-5 who’s goal is the virtually assured path to AC (notwithstanding AC’s previous creation of a new interview result which was neither a job offer nor a rejection. It said ‘reapply in 6 months’). And there are some pilots stuck between these two groups.

Ultimately the market will dictate compensation. There is a drawer full of applications at Jazz. But they aren’t all 2500+ hour ATPL. Compensation will dictate applicant qualification. Even Porter has recognized that, and they are not unionized. But Porter desperately wants the E2 program to succeed.

The airlines in Canada need to accept that they will have to compete for pilot labour resources, or accept the inability to maintain or increase operations. Only carrier that might be exempt from this paradigm is AC.

I don't think so. Airlines always can lower their requirement , they can hire CPL 250 hours directly.And It's happening.
Do you think there's a shortage of cpl fresh guys?

Airlines that are well established with 5+ years to upgrade can hire 250-hour cadets. There is not a shortage of that experience level. Yet.
Rapid growth requires experience for Captains. There is definitely an acute shortage of 5000hour + jet pilots.

[qwe221sd]

Bingo.

There are 2 Jazz’s. One with tenured pilots making good money (reasonable pay rates) and another comprised of the pilots in year 1-5 who’s goal is the virtually assured path to AC (notwithstanding AC’s previous creation of a new interview result which was neither a job offer nor a rejection. It said ‘reapply in 6 months’). And there are some pilots stuck between these two groups.

Ultimately the market will dictate compensation. There is a drawer full of applications at Jazz. But they aren’t all 2500+ hour ATPL. Compensation will dictate applicant qualification. Even Porter has recognized that, and they are not unionized. But Porter desperately wants the E2 program to succeed.

The airlines in Canada need to accept that they will have to compete for pilot labour resources, or accept the inability to maintain or increase operations. Only carrier that might be exempt from this paradigm is AC.

I don't think so. Airlines always can lower their requirement , they can hire CPL 250 hours directly.And It's happening.
Do you think there's a shortage of cpl fresh guys?

Airlines that are well established with 5+ years to upgrade can hire 250-hour cadets. There is not a shortage of that experience level. Yet.
Rapid growth requires experience for Captains. There is definitely an acute shortage of 5000hour + jet pilots.

Totally agree. Btw , why some airlines of the world only require 3000-4000tt for 737 or a320 captain , but we need 5000 hours? for example, european ulcc like Wizz Ryan Eurowings Easyjet .

[tbaylx]

I don't think so. Airlines always can lower their requirement , they can hire CPL 250 hours directly.And It's happening.
Do you think there's a shortage of cpl fresh guys?

Airlines that are well established with 5+ years to upgrade can hire 250-hour cadets. There is not a shortage of that experience level. Yet.
Rapid growth requires experience for Captains. There is definitely an acute shortage of 5000hour + jet pilots.

Totally agree. Btw , why some airlines of the world only require 3000-4000tt for 737 or a320 captain , but we need 5000 hours? for example, european ulcc like Wizz Ryan Eurowings Easyjet .

Companies's are free to set their own experience requirements. The minimum requirements in Canada are an ATPL and 1500 hours. I have yet to meet a pilot that would be ready to command a 737 with 1500 hours TT.

In Europe many pilots are cadets and have been flying the aircraft type for their whole career. After 3000-4000 hours on type, and with a developed command upgrade program using Evidence Based Training and lofts a pilot is ready for command at 3000TT.

In Canada most pilots have 2500 hrs + on turboprops or small 703 aircraft prior to joining the airline. Additionally, most 705 operators in Canada do not have a command upgrade program anywhere near the level of an EASA carrier, so higher experience requirements are the norm to be successful.

With 6 months at a company to develop and around 500 hrs on type and 4000 TT with a good command upgrade program, many Candian pilots are capable of upgrading to a 737 command successfully and safely.

[Inthrustwetrust]

The moment other airlines start poaching atpl pilots with higher wages we will see increased wages at Jazz. Not sure if we will get there. Time will tell.

[rudder]

The moment other airlines start poaching atpl pilots with higher wages we will see increased wages at Jazz. Not sure if we will get there. Time will tell.

The rumoured(?) DEC program is proof that if the low experience/no experience demographic of your new-hire cadre is too high during times of high attrition, then you will run out of upgradeable pilots.

Jazz is forecasting hitting that wall soon.