Feels like impossible to find an entry level pilot job...

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LifeAt90Kts
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Re: Feels like impossible to find an entry level pilot job...

Post by LifeAt90Kts »

I hire entry level pilots. This advice is purely my opinion and I’m sure others will disagree, but here is what I look for in a newbie:

- If your resume is 5 pages long, I’m likely not reading past the first page. Please keep the cover letter to one page, and the resume to one page.

- Please lay off the fancy formatting. If I have to search around trying to find your license info you’ve lost my attention. (If you look up “xsbank” on this forum they have posted some fantastic resume formatting advice)

- ALWAYS send your resume in pdf. If you send it in word, the formatting quite often goes wonky and it becomes annoying to decipher. I had a resume forwarded to me in word once and our recruiter accidentally deleted all the contact info while they had the document open. Not great.

- Here’s what I want at the top of your resume:

Total Time
CPL
Group 1/3
IATRA or ATPL written

- No photos, gender or orientation, marital status, or blood type (yes, I have received resumes with all of these).

- Please have someone proofread your cover letter and resume. I know I shouldn’t but I judge applications riddled with typos and grammatical errors. I suppose it speaks more to attention to detail.

- I don’t mind walk ins, but I do appreciate when they know a little bit about what we do.

- I am well aware that lots of folks are just trying to get their 1500 hours to head off to the airlines but that doesn’t mean you can’t absorb experience and contribute to the operation in the mean time, so please try to focus on that.

- The #1 thing I need from a newbie is a willingness to learn. If you are coachable I have all the time in the world for you. If you walk in like you’re above the work I have to offer, then we just aren’t going to be a good fit.

- If you don’t know an answer, tell me where you’d go find it.

- Never, ever offer to work for free. We are professionals and your training and licenses have value.

Bottom line, keep it simple. Have a clear and concise resume. In person visits are ok (unless the company you’re applying to has said otherwise). Please be authentic and have an open mind to learn everything you can from everyone you meet.

Good luck!
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altiplano
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Re: Feels like impossible to find an entry level pilot job...

Post by altiplano »

LifeAt90Kts wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 8:08 pm - No photos, gender or orientation, marital status, or blood type (yes, I have received resumes with all of these).
LOLOLOOLOL..

How about pronouns?

Me/them/her/he?
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qwe221sd
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Re: Feels like impossible to find an entry level pilot job...

Post by qwe221sd »

It's the reality. Pilot shortage is a myth.
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PilotDAR
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Re: Feels like impossible to find an entry level pilot job...

Post by PilotDAR »

From my experience, an important factor in being hired to a task as a newbie, is to be where it's happening. To work in aviation, do your best to be at the airport/floatplane base as much as you can. If this means taking a ramp/dock job, do that. The boss just wants a job done. Sometimes that job is flying a plane, sometimes, it's loading and fueling. If the boss sees you doing those jobs well (which are jobs they very likely did themselves), they will get a good impression of you, and that counts for a lot. Of course they know that you want to fly planes, every pilot does! Give them a chance to get to know what a conscientious hard worker you are, before they give you their expensive airplane. Then, when you're there, doing your job well, and they need something flown, you'll be the first person they think of - 'cause you're already there!

I was given a lot of great flying opportunities early in my career, because the boss was able to find me nearby when something needed to be flown - I was under a plane cleaning it, sweeping a floor, putting gas in, or lifting something. I never regretted doing a menial task - to this day, because the people who hired me had too, and being like them was good for job my advancement.
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WellThatAgedWell
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Re: Feels like impossible to find an entry level pilot job...

Post by WellThatAgedWell »

The best way to find a pilot job today is to get vaccinated.

I was having trouble finding a pilot job but then I put on the top of my resume under “qualifications” “fully vax and boosted”. Finally I got a call for an interview, but when they found out I said I had natural immunity they called me a liar and plague rat and walked me out the door.
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Two years of posts that aged like a fine cheddar.
McKinley
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Re: Feels like impossible to find an entry level pilot job...

Post by McKinley »

“I graduated from a reputable aviation college” - That indicates part of the issue right there. It’s time for an attitude adjustment. I don’t know you personally… however I have seen college grads at the airlines. This type of attitude is endemic. It drives many of us who went to flight school, worked the ramp for a 206 gig and flew in the Bush for several thousand hours… bonkers… You are no more or less valuable than any other pilot. These college programs are puppy mills. You aren’t elite because of your college program. . You have 200 hours .. in the flight deck you are more of a liability… your “ credentials” are a license to learn, gain skills and eventually become asset.-for your first 1500+ hours you’re learning.

Hell, with 5000 I’m still learning and evolving.

It wasn’t too long ago when 4000 hours was “ low time” for the Regionals.

Our industry just went through one of the worst downturns in aviation industry. ( if not, the worst) Friends at the majors have finally been recalled… so things are moving.

If you can’t get a job try volunteering for SAR and or the air cadets. You’ll build time and give back to your community.

Also, get a job at the airport working for Someone doing something even if it’s grooming, fueling, baggage handling. ideally look for someone who has aircraft you can fly… that might not be possible ….build up your ramp qualifications/ ramp experience . Yes, ramp time is a thing.. it’s been a thing in the past.
It’s a foot in the door and you can also meet other pilots.

When I started out.. my ramp qualifications got me the job. NOT My flying qualifications.
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Flight94
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Re: Feels like impossible to find an entry level pilot job...

Post by Flight94 »

You may also consider joining a flying club or RAA chapter. They are generally full of retired or current pilots, mechanics etc. Fun, and good networking.
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newlygrounded
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Re: Feels like impossible to find an entry level pilot job...

Post by newlygrounded »

WellThatAgedWell wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 3:53 am The best way to find a pilot job today is to get vaccinated.

I was having trouble finding a pilot job but then I put on the top of my resume under “qualifications” “fully vax and boosted”. Finally I got a call for an interview, but when they found out I said I had natural immunity they called me a liar and plague rat and walked me out the door.
Can you people piss off? There is a dedicated covid forum you can bitch on
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newlygrounded
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Re: Feels like impossible to find an entry level pilot job...

Post by newlygrounded »

Turboprops wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 3:09 pm
newlygrounded wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 1:07 pm
Turboprops wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 12:46 pm Literally every single northern operator is hiring rampies… tough it out for 6 months then you’re flying
Have you seen the looming recession? Good chance you'd be laid off at worst in a few months (and leaving a good job to go there most likely)
Lets say you’re right, but the north is pretty much recession proof, so what’s your point again?
Nobody goes to the north because it's nice/long term, well maybe a handful. But most people are there to ramp a few months than move up to an FO and or CA position. If there is a recession none of the FO/CA spots open up because the regionals aren't hiring. So you're stuck as a rampie vs whatever you were doing before.
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OtherRedBaron
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Re: Feels like impossible to find an entry level pilot job...

Post by OtherRedBaron »

DanWEC wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 7:43 pm I hate to say it, but it seems like you've answered all your own questions, picked a path, and the results have spoken for themselves. You've gotta remember, an employer hires you for their benefit, not yours. A business doesn't run itself.

Part of what Bede is saying is to be present and genuine. Anything else can be smelt miles away.

Anyhow to the OP, it's the hardest part of starting your career.
Agreed on all counts.
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cdnavater
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Re: Feels like impossible to find an entry level pilot job...

Post by cdnavater »

LifeAt90Kts wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 8:08 pm I hire entry level pilots. This advice is purely my opinion and I’m sure others will disagree, but here is what I look for in a newbie:

- If your resume is 5 pages long, I’m likely not reading past the first page. Please keep the cover letter to one page, and the resume to one page.

- Please lay off the fancy formatting. If I have to search around trying to find your license info you’ve lost my attention. (If you look up “xsbank” on this forum they have posted some fantastic resume formatting advice)

- ALWAYS send your resume in pdf. If you send it in word, the formatting quite often goes wonky and it becomes annoying to decipher. I had a resume forwarded to me in word once and our recruiter accidentally deleted all the contact info while they had the document open. Not great.

- Here’s what I want at the top of your resume:

Total Time
CPL
Group 1/3
IATRA or ATPL written

- No photos, gender or orientation, marital status, or blood type (yes, I have received resumes with all of these).

- Please have someone proofread your cover letter and resume. I know I shouldn’t but I judge applications riddled with typos and grammatical errors. I suppose it speaks more to attention to detail.

- I don’t mind walk ins, but I do appreciate when they know a little bit about what we do.

- I am well aware that lots of folks are just trying to get their 1500 hours to head off to the airlines but that doesn’t mean you can’t absorb experience and contribute to the operation in the mean time, so please try to focus on that.

- The #1 thing I need from a newbie is a willingness to learn. If you are coachable I have all the time in the world for you. If you walk in like you’re above the work I have to offer, then we just aren’t going to be a good fit.

- If you don’t know an answer, tell me where you’d go find it.

- Never, ever offer to work for free. We are professionals and your training and licenses have value.

Bottom line, keep it simple. Have a clear and concise resume. In person visits are ok (unless the company you’re applying to has said otherwise). Please be authentic and have an open mind to learn everything you can from everyone you meet.

Good luck!
As a former CP and OM, this is the best advice I’ve seen in this thread
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DanWEC
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Re: Feels like impossible to find an entry level pilot job...

Post by DanWEC »

OtherRedBaron wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 9:02 am
DanWEC wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 7:43 pm I hate to say it, but it seems like you've answered all your own questions, picked a path, and the results have spoken for themselves. You've gotta remember, an employer hires you for their benefit, not yours. A business doesn't run itself.

Part of what Bede is saying is to be present and genuine. Anything else can be smelt miles away.

Anyhow to the OP, it's the hardest part of starting your career.
Agreed on all counts.
Just to be clear, I was actually referring to your own post. I wouldn't discount Bede's advice in any way.
Cheers though. Perseverance will eventually prevail for you.
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digits_
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Re: Feels like impossible to find an entry level pilot job...

Post by digits_ »

LifeAt90Kts wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 8:08 pm We are professionals and your training and licenses have value.
Although not much :wink:

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Excellent post!
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
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flyingjerry
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Re: Feels like impossible to find an entry level pilot job...

Post by flyingjerry »

imapo16 wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 5:01 am I've graduated from a pretty reputable aviation college program in summer 2020 with my Multi IFR and written IATRA, back when the pandemic was at its peak and it was literally impossible to find a pilot job. I'm continuously sending my resume literally to every possible option I see ,but I get no return at all... I'm probably certain I've sent over 500+ emails within the last 2 year and I got nothing. I've considered getting my instructor rating in the past but couldn't due to my financial situation and also don't feel like instructing is a good fit to me.

I'm not here to whine about not being to find a job. Instead, I wanted to see your guys opinion on what I can maybe focus on to improve my success rate on landing my first job. Especially the people who graduate at the same time as me. How did you cope with that? Were you able to find something afterwards or you're still looking for opportunities?
I went through this as well. Well experienced pilots couldn't find a job in 2020, there was panic and fear everywhere. People were washing their groceries. It was a crazy, and different time and aviation was dead.

Look at job ads now though, new ones almost everyday. Just yesterday WestJet mainline (I think) posted a job for pilots on Indeed. Things are moving.

Keep at it. Personalize every cover letter. Change your resume formatting, make it simple. 1/2 to 1 page max. Remove your address, if it's on there.
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ChanaWong
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Re: Feels like impossible to find an entry level pilot job...

Post by ChanaWong »

From life experience, a resume is the most important thing when applying for a job. Finding a job as an entry-level pilot is quite realistic.
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