Keystone back in business

Desk Jockey · Post by **Desk Jockey** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:51 pm

Just heard TC just re-instated Keystone OC...

http://www.tc.gc.ca/mediaroom/releases/ ... pn002e.htm

Regards,

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 1:07 pm

Isn't that nice.

Kosiw · Post by **Kosiw** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 1:26 pm

Perhaps it won't be such a bad place to work at since TC will have a microscope on them for a while. Or is there still an attitude problem with the owners?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 1:51 pm

Why did TC allow it to get to this point?

Cat Driver:

Right Seat Captain · Post by **Right Seat Captain** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 2:42 pm

What took them so long? Wasn't it obvious from the get-go? And didn't TC say that there was a problem themselves long before they did anything?

... · Post by **...** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 4:21 pm

F Them.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:41 pm

They just need somebody in there to help run the thing, who isn't a relation to the boss....and can stand up to him and "call a spade, a spade"!
Otherwise....history will repeat....that's what history does!

Waldo Pepper's Circus · Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:10 pm

Looking at this logically, what would motivate someone who is intelligent, dedicated and experienced to go in there and argue in an attempt to turn things around? If the owner wants things run his way, fighting it will only end in frustration. The point is that Cliff doesn't undertsand what contitutes a safety culture, specifically in how his actions and lack of punishment to pilots cutting corners (like not entering snags in the logbook), and therefore they will have another accident. Its not rocket science.

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:49 pm

I read the incident in the Aviation Safety Letter, as have most of us, and I find it really hard to believe somone could do something that stupid but it happened. Two wonders. 1. where is the pilot now?. 2. If a 250 hour wonder was PCC'd and sitting in the right seat would he/she speak up or would they just be another 188/145 lbs over gross.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:56 pm

Way to go S&J!!!! Atta boy! That's the first really stupid post I've seen on this new board. You should be proud!

Kosiw · Post by **Kosiw** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:28 pm

Now that Keystone is back in business, will they actually get any business, ie. summer fishing charters, gov't work, skeds? Knowing that the publicity from their past accidents has hurt their reputation in the Manitoba charter industry, do they actually have any work lined up?

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 7:22 am

They'll get all the work they can handle...."Joe Public" has a very short memory.
And S&J, I never called you stupid....I said the post was stupid....time for English language comprehension 101 for you!

Bcn-In-Bnd · Post by **Bcn-In-Bnd** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:02 am

It would sure be nice to see the details.
What did they find at GN after the c-208 crash that made them
yank that OC?

What did they find at Keystone that made them take that OC again ?
I dont care anymore if it was right or wrong to take the OC away, I wont
details.

I also think that if all this shit was not so TOP SECRET, other companys
would think twice about doing the same stuff.

(Is there a place to find this info?)

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:35 am

Bcn-in Bnd :

It's all smoke and mirrors and TC doing what they do best....CYA.

The answer is very simple, you will forget because there will be another disaster coming along and the CYA machine will be busy filling in the holes, after we get our pablum statement from the Ministers office about Safety..bla bla bla bla.

It will never change....

All you can do is try your best to stay alive yourself.

Cat

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:38 am

Capt S&J :

If you really want to impress Doc with your vast knowledge, you can advise me on that ITCZ flight planning problem from Dakar to Natal that I asked you for.

Cat

Waldo Pepper's Circus · Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:15 am

" It will never change....

All you can do is try your best to stay alive yourself. "

Actually it will change because the insurance companies are not as complacent as they once were, and in the end its them who truly run the show for the 703 operators. Companies can not afford accidents anymore because of exactly what is happenning to Keystone: lawsuits. Yes, the average guy forgets about plowing into parked cars on a city street, but lawyers don't. When its all decided in court, with all the dirt hashed out, Keystone may be finished once and for all. It may sound ridiculous but even Wall Street corporations have more than met their match by a capable personal injury attorney.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:48 am

Waldo :

You are correct, the bottom line is always follow the money, when the insurance companies realize that any product or service coverage is losing money for the shareholders they refuse coverage.

My remarks were aimed at reactive governance by TC instead of pro active. Which involves more than just checking paper work and playing CYA at every turn.

The sooner the insurance companies cull dangerous operations the better, note, my comment is not directed at Keystone as I have no direct knowledge of their operation......like you state the courts will make a determination on that.

Cat Driver:

Hyster · Post by **Hyster** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:10 am

Sweet and Juicy, that was stupid. Keystone already "got one", why make it any more(not that they havent tried) I have personally seen them in action, and everytime they are doing stupid shit. But I agree that with the proper managment they could be a good company.

flyboy · Post by **flyboy** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 11:56 pm

I'm sure they'll be busy this summer, they are the cheapest charter out of ywg, and the lodges don't give a damm about anything else, and like someone else said, joe public has a short memory and they are cheaper.

wow talk about a runon sentence

snapped · Post by **snapped** » Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:49 pm

unfortunately flyboy is right. Higher profits for the lodges

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:00 am

Yous guys have made some good points. Insurance companies will kill a bad operator faster than anything. I have been dealing with sport fishing lodges starting in 1966 and then got away from them for a few years. The company I now work for has had some dealings and as a casual bystander, aviation safety is the absolute last thing on their minds. We are fortunate in that our operations people keep the lodges in our zone of influence at arms length from the pilots so we do what is safe and our poor suffering management people deal with the sh**t. we take what we legally can and leave the rest behind. I guess that is why we don't do that many fishing charters. We are doing with a 16K Metro what others were doing with a Kingair 100 and I tell you, we can carry a whole bunch more.
legally and safely.

loopy · Post by **loopy** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 3:28 pm

I hope they are paying a fortune for insurance right now. I hope that it gets too expensive for them. What burns me is that it also causes the rates to go up for the other operators that are doing things the proper way. Yup, the good guy gets burned, but lives. violent flame

out with it · Post by **out with it** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 3:37 pm

it would be nice to hear from someone actually working in Keystone company to say how it is now.....

Keystone back in business

Keystone back in business

KEYSTONE

Keystone is back in business.