Things definitely seem different this time around and it won't take much to push the vote over the cancel line. Remember - it took 2 tries to get the pta through and the second (successful) time was heavily influenced by the wj pilots being bribed with an option settlement attached.goingmissed wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 7:58 amIs there something that you know that the rest of us don't?Canadaflyer46 wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 7:43 am With the PTA looking likely to be torn up soon, Encore is looking even more bleak. Go to Jazz and actually be treated like a professional. Oh, and you’ll be at mainline AC in 3 years unless you screw the interview up.
There's a petition to cancel the PTA, but that still needs to be approved by the MEC and then sent to a general vote. I doubt that the majority of WJA/WSW pilots are in favour of cancelling the PTA.
#EncoreFlowMoraleLow
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Re: #EncoreFlowMoraleLow
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Re: #EncoreFlowMoraleLow
That's a weak argument and we both know it.lostaviator wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 10:49 am Things definitely seem different this time around and it won't take much to push the vote over the cancel line. Remember - it took 2 tries to get the pta through and the second (successful) time was heavily influenced by the wj pilots being bribed with an option settlement attached.
What you are suggesting is to revoke an agreement after having benefited from both the 'option settlement' that you have stated and the agreement itself.
What does a WestJet pilot have to gain from the PTA being revoked, or lose from it remaining?
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Re: #EncoreFlowMoraleLow
I actually feel like the pilot group stands to benefit from it being cancelled. All pilots currently on the list are protected. It immediately forces the company’s hand to do something about it as the resume pile disappears. With a potential SWG pilot merger in the near future, Encore pilots stand to be at the most risk of getting screwed. Now is the time to cancel and get the common employer talks going again. Pretty much every other employee group (aside from FA’s) have already merged to common employer with mainline (dxp, mcc, etc…). Eliminate the grey areas with the pta and eliminate any risk to encore pilots with a merger. If for whatever reason the company shoots itself in the foot and still does not entertain common employer, expect a SIGNIFICANT pay raise for Encore pilots.
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Re: #EncoreFlowMoraleLow
Absolutely hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately your "shooting themselves in the foot" theory is the most likely. With the way things are ran currently if the PTA disappears I'd expect the company to say "we're not negotiating anything until the next contract talks", and then watch surprised as all their pilots leave and aircraft are parked.FlyAlberta wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 8:35 am I actually feel like the pilot group stands to benefit from it being cancelled. All pilots currently on the list are protected. It immediately forces the company’s hand to do something about it as the resume pile disappears. With a potential SWG pilot merger in the near future, Encore pilots stand to be at the most risk of getting screwed. Now is the time to cancel and get the common employer talks going again. Pretty much every other employee group (aside from FA’s) have already merged to common employer with mainline (dxp, mcc, etc…). Eliminate the grey areas with the pta and eliminate any risk to encore pilots with a merger. If for whatever reason the company shoots itself in the foot and still does not entertain common employer, expect a SIGNIFICANT pay raise for Encore pilots.
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Re: #EncoreFlowMoraleLow
Why do I doubt that either of you are Encore pilots and that your "best intentions" for Encore pilots start with your own best interests first?
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Re: #EncoreFlowMoraleLow
Think about your statement and the intent of the PTA. Would you not agree that what wj pilots do in their best interest, one day serves your best interest?goingmissed wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 10:10 pm Why do I doubt that either of you are Encore pilots and that your "best intentions" for Encore pilots start with your own best interests first?
Where are you going to spend most of your career? encore of westjet?
Encore pilots supported this agreement too. It contains a clause that lets a party vote to leave. That’s just the way it is.
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Re: #EncoreFlowMoraleLow
If the argument is that the PTA is non-enforceable, how am I supposed to go from Encore to WestJet? I have little problem with the PTA being cancelled as long as it's done through 11.03, other than it's a way to use Encore pilots as pawns against the company.lostaviator wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 8:43 amThink about your statement and the intent of the PTA. Would you not agree that what wj pilots do in their best interest, one day serves your best interest?goingmissed wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 10:10 pm Why do I doubt that either of you are Encore pilots and that your "best intentions" for Encore pilots start with your own best interests first?
Where are you going to spend most of your career? encore of westjet?
Encore pilots supported this agreement too. It contains a clause that lets a party vote to leave. That’s just the way it is.
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Re: #EncoreFlowMoraleLow
goingmissed wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 10:10 pm Why do I doubt that either of you are Encore pilots and that your "best intentions" for Encore pilots start with your own best interests first?
Not that it matters, everyone has their own opinion, and that’s cool. I work at WEN. I’d say I have a lot to lose, should a merger go sideways. You could say I’m looking out for my own interests. Not sure if you’ve kept up with chatter on the mainline side but as they go into negotiations, the majority of what I hear is that they don’t give a flying puck about what happens with Encore pilots going forward re: mergers, etc… and will not spend an inch of their negotiating capital on what happens with Encore pilots. Yes, it’s a kick in the peanuts considering our desire to stand with them over the years, but it is what it is.
My stance is we go common employer, or separate the pilot groups completely. I’m, quite frankly, tired of being treated by the company as the little brother and occasionally being thrown a baby carrot only when it’s favourable to the corp.
I suspect I’ll continue to bypass flow until contract negotiations for both sides are complete and any possible merger has clear language. I’d rather spend the rest of my career at Encore with wages that meet or exceed those of our USA counterparts, and near the top of the list vs. risk getting sewered with PTA merger language.
Flow will likely stop the next couple bids when AC starts vacuuming up the large amount of our pilots that have applied there. The company will have no choice but to stop flow and hire OTS. Can’t fault them for that, as they need to crew planes, but I’m sure we could all guess how that plays out.
The company is looking to push much more short haul flying to Encore from mainline. RJ’s are a very likely probability in the next few years. We’ll see how that plays out with the WS pilots. One would think it would be favourable and preferable for all pilot groups to be under one umbrella in those cases but I’m no expert.
I hope I don’t sound too terribly salty. I quite enjoy my job. Why would I still be here if I didn’t. I’m just tired of being a pawn and ba$tard child.
Last edited by FlyAlberta on Fri Feb 24, 2023 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: #EncoreFlowMoraleLow
If you are afraid that you sound salty, don't worry about it. There are some jaded pilots who hate everything about where they are in their career and you do not sound like them.FlyAlberta wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 9:05 pm Not that it matters, everyone has their own opinion, and that’s cool. I work at WEN. Nearing top 5% of the pilot list. Bypassed flow for some time. I’d say I have a lot to lose, should a merger go sideways. You could say I’m looking out for my own interests. Not sure if you’ve kept up with chatter on the mainline side but as they go into negotiations, the majority of what I hear is that they don’t give a flying puck about what happens with Encore pilots going forward re: mergers, etc… and will not spend an inch of their negotiating capital on what happens with Encore pilots. Yes, it’s a kick in the peanuts considering our desire to stand with them over the years, but it is what it is.
My stance is we go common employer, or separate the pilot groups completely. I’m, quite frankly, tired of being treated by the company as the little brother and occasionally being thrown a baby carrot only when it’s favourable to the corp.
I suspect I’ll continue to bypass flow until contract negotiations for both sides are complete and any possible merger has clear language. I’d rather spend the rest of my career at Encore with wages that meet or exceed those of our USA counterparts, and near the top of the list vs. risk getting sewered with PTA merger language.
Flow will likely stop the next couple bids when AC starts vacuuming up the large amount of our pilots that have applied there. The company will have no choice but to stop flow and hire OTS. Can’t fault them for that, as they need to crew planes, but I’m sure we could all guess how that plays out.
The company is looking to push much more short haul flying to Encore from mainline. RJ’s are a very likely probability in the next few years. We’ll see how that plays out with the WS pilots. One would think it would be favourable and preferable for all pilot groups to be under one umbrella in those cases but I’m no expert.
I hope I don’t sound too terribly salty. I quite enjoy my job. Why would I still be here if I didn’t. I’m just tired of being a pawn and ba$tard child.
While I am optimistic regarding the contract being negotiated next year and the future for Encore pilots, I am nowhere near optimistic that Encore will be a career airline in any form unless there is major change in the industry as a whole.
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Re: #EncoreFlowMoraleLow
But realistically, what are the chances in getting into a 705 like WJ or Swoop with just 1500TT?Apestogetherstrong wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 9:26 pm Anyone looking to come to Encore right now, give this topic a good read. If you have a 1000 hours just wait it out till you get 1500. Apply to WJ or Swoop directly then. Its all max duty days with low pay here. Lots of experienced guys are leaving. Flow is non existent. Avg 8-10 spots a month! Last bid was 8. Thats a shame!!!
Roughly 550 pilots at Encore. If you join now, and they flow 8 a month, it will take you 6-7years to flow(if you’re lucky) When you do flow, You start as year one FO at Swoop or mainline. All the time I gave to this company, yet OTS guys with half my hours are going directly on right seat at mainline and will get YOS. You guys have been warned again!
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Re: #EncoreFlowMoraleLow
Nil considering WS posting for 737 FOs is asking for 2000 TT.Papa_Justin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:32 pm But realistically, what are the chances in getting into a 705 like WJ or Swoop with just 1500TT?
A general inquire, no sarcasm intended.
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Re: #EncoreFlowMoraleLow
Thought as much.tango308 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:47 pmNil considering WS posting for 737 FOs is asking for 2000 TT.Papa_Justin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:32 pm But realistically, what are the chances in getting into a 705 like WJ or Swoop with just 1500TT?
A general inquire, no sarcasm intended.
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Re: #EncoreFlowMoraleLow
Execs have been “eating our lunch” by paying us janitor wages for too long and yet they call lynx and flair idiots. They still think flowing 8 pilots a month is what everyone wanted. Nah! pay us delta wages. You guys are creating a bigger mess. Come up with a retention plan now Alex!