Hiring DEC's

[Soyer]

Flair is, or will soon be, the third-largest airline in Canada. It's time to pay an industry standard wage and benefits.

True - but AC/WJ are not industry standard. They have been around for a long time and any expectation to meet those wages is ridiculous. But not doubt a good raise is in order!

[Tdicommuter]

Do you understand what the term industry standard actually means?

It means that if I'm trained as a (pick a profession), then there is a floor to the wages and working conditions for that profession.

Hey I'm a plumber can I get a job at your company

Sure but we only pay half the wages of everyone else because this is a new company.

Wouldn't you question that logic? Hmmm does that mean the business can never afford to pay me what I'm worth? If the business is not capable of operating without wages being BELOW industry standard is that a precedent I'd like to be a part of? Is this venture viable long term if eventually I get paid industry standard?

[digits_]

Do you understand what the term industry standard actually means?

It means that if I'm trained as a (pick a profession), then there is a floor to the wages and working conditions for that profession.

Hey I'm a plumber can I get a job at your company

Sure but we only pay half the wages of everyone else because this is a new company.

Wouldn't you question that logic? Hmmm does that mean the business can never afford to pay me what I'm worth? If the business is not capable of operating without wages being BELOW industry standard is that a precedent I'd like to be a part of? Is this venture viable long term if eventually I get paid industry standard?

You don't think companies try that? Construction jobs are usually unionized, so that's maybe a bad example, but I'm sure lawyers and accountants and software developers and most other professions deal with the same issues. There's just a bigger market for those, so you don't always have to uproot your life to switch over to a better company. There's also no bonds and no 'objective' measure of experience. If a company needs 2000 hours for a client contract, it's hard to argue you qualify with 1000 hours. If a company wants someone with 3 years of experience, it's easier to argue that that apprenticeship or that irrelevant job you had did in fact have some relevance.

[bcflyer]

Flair is, or will soon be, the third-largest airline in Canada. It's time to pay an industry standard wage and benefits.

True - but AC/WJ are not industry standard. They have been around for a long time and any expectation to meet those wages is ridiculous. But not doubt a good raise is in order!

This is why the Canadian industry is so far behind. You are correct that AC and WJ are not industry standard. They are well BELOW industry standard. Have a look around. Airlines are paying far more than AC or WJ and have better working conditions. Aim higher people!!

[Papa_Justin]

Flair is, or will soon be, the third-largest airline in Canada. It's time to pay an industry standard wage and benefits.

True - but AC/WJ are not industry standard. They have been around for a long time and any expectation to meet those wages is ridiculous. But not doubt a good raise is in order!

This is why the Canadian industry is so far behind. You are correct that AC and WJ are not industry standard. They are well BELOW industry standard. Have a look around. Airlines are paying far more than AC or WJ and have better working conditions. Aim higher people!!

Could you share some examples of where to aim?

[bcflyer]

True - but AC/WJ are not industry standard. They have been around for a long time and any expectation to meet those wages is ridiculous. But not doubt a good raise is in order!

This is why the Canadian industry is so far behind. You are correct that AC and WJ are not industry standard. They are well BELOW industry standard. Have a look around. Airlines are paying far more than AC or WJ and have better working conditions. Aim higher people!!

Could you share some examples of where to aim?

Seriously?? Take a look at just about any major airline in the US. Let’s look at Southwest. A LCC. They fly the 737 domestically. Here are their Captain pay scales.
737
12 274
11 271
10 268
9 265
8 262
7 259
6 256
5 253
4 250
3 247
2 244
1 241

[Canadaflyer46]

True - but AC/WJ are not industry standard. They have been around for a long time and any expectation to meet those wages is ridiculous. But not doubt a good raise is in order!

This is why the Canadian industry is so far behind. You are correct that AC and WJ are not industry standard. They are well BELOW industry standard. Have a look around. Airlines are paying far more than AC or WJ and have better working conditions. Aim higher people!!

Could you share some examples of where to aim?

F5363F36-921D-4952-B4C4-A2DFBB717330.png (727.06 KiB) Viewed 2514 times

Few years out of date but you get the picture. Oh, that’s US dollars too.

[pelmet]

I think the way it works in Canada is that pilots make less on average and other crew make more on average. We have a more socialist society from health care to everything else. And if you make more money, it just gets taxed more, so no real need to make much more money.

Many of you have voted for this and of those who didn't, your fellow Canadians did. So just accept it. You may not have as fancy a house as the United pilot, but the rest of the crew have more spending money.

[flyinhigh]

Other than AC & WJ no one pays over $150,000 for a 1st year Captain and WJ is just over.

TS first year Capt is $149,853, which NO pilot starts at so real year one is $155K on the narrowbody, which doesn't exist so really first year captain is now $184.

[rooster]

Other than AC & WJ no one pays over $150,000 for a 1st year Captain and WJ is just over.

Heard Flair's 1st year captain pay is going up to $145k+ 1st year. Not quite over $150k but a big improvement from $114k.

[big_sky]

Other than AC & WJ no one pays over $150,000 for a 1st year Captain and WJ is just over.

Heard Flair's 1st year captain pay is going up to $145k+ 1st year. Not quite over $150k but a big improvement from $114k.

Air Transat new pay rates as of May 1, 2022 for year 1 Captain is $177K, but everyone who upgrades starts at year 2 which is $184K.

[homesick]

Any plans for DEC hiring? Was checking out their careers site. Currently looking only for effoes.

Can apply for the trainer position but prefer to be in the air rather than in the box.

[Papa_Justin]

This is why the Canadian industry is so far behind. You are correct that AC and WJ are not industry standard. They are well BELOW industry standard. Have a look around. Airlines are paying far more than AC or WJ and have better working conditions. Aim higher people!!

Could you share some examples of where to aim?

Seriously?? Take a look at just about any major airline in the US. Let’s look at Southwest. A LCC. They fly the 737 domestically. Here are their Captain pay scales.
737
12 274
11 271
10 268
9 265
8 262
7 259
6 256
5 253
4 250
3 247
2 244
1 241

I was under the impression that you were talking about Canadian airlines. Ya I'm aware the states are far more ahead pay-wise. Out of curiosity, could a pilot residing in Montreal work for an American airline?

[flying4dollars]

Any plans for DEC hiring? Was checking out their careers site. Currently looking only for effoes.

Can apply for the trainer position but prefer to be in the air rather than in the box.

Flair hired a bunch of DEC's and upgradeable FO's since that was their first priority for the expansion, so right now most of the hiring will be strictly FO's going forward. But upgrade times will still be relatively quick compared to most other 737 operators.

[flyinhigh]

I was under the impression that you were talking about Canadian airlines. Ya I'm aware the states are far more ahead pay-wise. Out of curiosity, could a pilot residing in Montreal work for an American airline?

You should know by now that whenever Avcanada talks about wages it is purely in USD as that's all the lawyers/arbitrators look at during negotiations .

[bcflyer]

Could you share some examples of where to aim?

Seriously?? Take a look at just about any major airline in the US. Let’s look at Southwest. A LCC. They fly the 737 domestically. Here are their Captain pay scales.
737
12 274
11 271
10 268
9 265
8 262
7 259
6 256
5 253
4 250
3 247
2 244
1 241

I was under the impression that you were talking about Canadian airlines. Ya I'm aware the states are far more ahead pay-wise. Out of curiosity, could a pilot residing in Montreal work for an American airline?

That would depend on a couple things. If you were American then absolutely you could live in Montreal. If you were Canadian on a green card then I believe you would be required to live in the US until you got citizenship, then you could live wherever you want. So the answer is it depends.

[Papa_Justin]

I was under the impression that you were talking about Canadian airlines. Ya I'm aware the states are far more ahead pay-wise. Out of curiosity, could a pilot residing in Montreal work for an American airline?

You should know by now that whenever Avcanada talks about wages it is purely in USD as that's all the lawyers/arbitrators look at during negotiations .

New on the forum, so i wasn't aware. Thanks for the input

[Papa_Justin]

Seriously?? Take a look at just about any major airline in the US. Let’s look at Southwest. A LCC. They fly the 737 domestically. Here are their Captain pay scales.
737
12 274
11 271
10 268
9 265
8 262
7 259
6 256
5 253
4 250
3 247
2 244
1 241

I was under the impression that you were talking about Canadian airlines. Ya I'm aware the states are far more ahead pay-wise. Out of curiosity, could a pilot residing in Montreal work for an American airline?

That would depend on a couple things. If you were American then absolutely you could live in Montreal. If you were Canadian on a green card then I believe you would be required to live in the US until you got citizenship, then you could live wherever you want. So the answer is it depends.

Oh ok. Gotcha. I'm a Canadian living in canada. No real interest in living in the united states haha

[bcflyer]

I was under the impression that you were talking about Canadian airlines. Ya I'm aware the states are far more ahead pay-wise. Out of curiosity, could a pilot residing in Montreal work for an American airline?

That would depend on a couple things. If you were American then absolutely you could live in Montreal. If you were Canadian on a green card then I believe you would be required to live in the US until you got citizenship, then you could live wherever you want. So the answer is it depends.

Oh ok. Gotcha. I'm a Canadian living in canada. No real interest in living in the united states haha

So because you live in Canada you are ok being paid less to do the same job as someone in another country?

[Papa_Justin]

That would depend on a couple things. If you were American then absolutely you could live in Montreal. If you were Canadian on a green card then I believe you would be required to live in the US until you got citizenship, then you could live wherever you want. So the answer is it depends.

Oh ok. Gotcha. I'm a Canadian living in canada. No real interest in living in the united states haha

So because you live in Canada you are ok being paid less to do the same job as someone in another country?

Those are your words, not mine. I said I have no interest in living in the united states. I am not interested in the politics, I am not interested in paying an arm and a leg in case of a medical emergency. I am not interested in worrying if my child would be shot at school. I am not interested in the more prominent racial issues and struggles (i am a man of color). I am not interested in moving away from family and loved ones (there's no price on living a happy life with the people you love).

I think that should clarify things.

[rooster]

So anyways, back to the topic ya?

[Soyer]

Actually, if you were American you could NOT simply live in YUL. Try telling Canada Customs, as an American, that you are living in Canada without the right to do so. Travel is simple but residency is not.

Why do Canadians feel they should be paid the same as their American counterparts? Living costs, taxes, political and cultural landscape etc. are all different.

Seriously?? Take a look at just about any major airline in the US. Let’s look at Southwest. A LCC. They fly the 737 domestically. Here are their Captain pay scales.
737
12 274
11 271
10 268
9 265
8 262
7 259
6 256
5 253
4 250
3 247
2 244
1 241

I was under the impression that you were talking about Canadian airlines. Ya I'm aware the states are far more ahead pay-wise. Out of curiosity, could a pilot residing in Montreal work for an American airline?

That would depend on a couple things. If you were American then absolutely you could live in Montreal. If you were Canadian on a green card then I believe you would be required to live in the US until you got citizenship, then you could live wherever you want. So the answer is it depends.

[nynybear]

What's with Canadians calling Immigration 'Customs'?
Same uniform but they are not synonymous with each other and each process plays its part differently. I'm sure some of you are old enough to remeber the CCRA and not the CIRA? Not sure about now but back in the day (pre-pandemic) there were plenty of Canadians commuting south of the border for various work opportunities and vice versa. Obviously the morning southbound/afternoon northbound lineups were longer.

[Hangry]

What's with Canadians calling Immigration 'Customs'?
Same uniform but they are not synonymous with each other and each process plays its part differently. I'm sure some of you are old enough to remeber the CCRA and not the CIRA? Not sure about now but back in the day (pre-pandemic) there were plenty of Canadians commuting south of the border for various work opportunities and vice versa. Obviously the morning southbound/afternoon northbound lineups were longer.

Because that’s what we call it in Canada?? Why do the Brit’s and Aussies call a trunk a boot? Is this a hard concept?

[C-GGGQ]

What's with Canadians calling Immigration 'Customs'?
Same uniform but they are not synonymous with each other and each process plays its part differently. I'm sure some of you are old enough to remeber the CCRA and not the CIRA? Not sure about now but back in the day (pre-pandemic) there were plenty of Canadians commuting south of the border for various work opportunities and vice versa. Obviously the morning southbound/afternoon northbound lineups were longer.

Because the same agency is responsible for both here and its a one stop process vs passing through immigration and then customs like I did on entering the Philippines