US Airlines Hiring Canadians

[schnitzel2k3]

Once the U.S air industry is authorized to import pilots on H1Bs, that's when things will get serious and be a turning point for Canadian flight crew.

At this point the NIW is a giant barrier for most pilots considering U.S employment. You'd think it's great, get down there and go anywhere - but a self sponsored visa puts the onus and costs on the applicant, not to mention the bar to qualify is currently at astronaut levels of experience.

For most Canadian pilots considering U.S employment, they'll just have to watch from the sidelines until the U.S employers are given the green light to hire directly, at which point I hope Canadian aviation will be set for a massive shakeup. Likely 5-10% of experienced airline and corporate ATPL aviators are going to head south immediately, with probably another 20% to follow shortly thereafter. Working in the U.S isn't for everybody, so I would imagine the other 70ish% will hang around while things get juicy here.

See what happens in the next 12 months.

['97 Tercel]

Inflation induced recession coming so dont hold y'all breaths on border opening soon.

[RoAF-Mig21]

There are around 14,000 current ATP licenses issued in Canada.The estimates for pilot shortages in the US have a need for 8000-12,000 ATPs in the US in 2023.

I don't think Canadians are the solution to the American pilot shortage, but the US allowing Canadians to fill those spots is part of the solution to the Canadian pilot pay shortage.

Americans were never shy to let other professionals work in the USA. Speaking from personal experience, (family members), it was VERY easy to obtain a visa to work in the USA, but it was not in aviation.

[firstofficer]

Rather than holding your breath for the USA to ease the immigration restrictions for us Canadian aviators (which is unlikely to happen) why don’t the majority host a strike across the entire country. I’ve seen people in the construction industry stop working as a a collective and as a result pay wages have increased. We all know how vital aviation is to the economy so I believe a strike should be beneficial for the future of aviation in Canada. Because right now it’s honestly appalling we can compare starting pay wages with operators in “third world” countries

[schnitzel2k3]

Rather than holding your breath for the USA to ease the immigration restrictions for us Canadian aviators (which is unlikely to happen) why don’t the majority host a strike across the entire country. I’ve seen people in the construction industry stop working as a a collective and as a result pay wages have increased. We all know how vital aviation is to the economy so I believe a strike should be beneficial for the future of aviation in Canada. Because right now it’s honestly appalling we can compare starting pay wages with operators in “third world” countries

The government sees flightcrew as essential employees and would force those workers back to work taking away their bargaining power.

[digits_]

Rather than holding your breath for the USA to ease the immigration restrictions for us Canadian aviators (which is unlikely to happen) why don’t the majority host a strike across the entire country. I’ve seen people in the construction industry stop working as a a collective and as a result pay wages have increased. We all know how vital aviation is to the economy so I believe a strike should be beneficial for the future of aviation in Canada. Because right now it’s honestly appalling we can compare starting pay wages with operators in “third world” countries

The government sees flightcrew as essential employees and would force those workers back to work taking away their bargaining power.

How?

I know they did (or attempted to) do that in the past. But how was that enforced?

[schnitzel2k3]

Rather than holding your breath for the USA to ease the immigration restrictions for us Canadian aviators (which is unlikely to happen) why don’t the majority host a strike across the entire country. I’ve seen people in the construction industry stop working as a a collective and as a result pay wages have increased. We all know how vital aviation is to the economy so I believe a strike should be beneficial for the future of aviation in Canada. Because right now it’s honestly appalling we can compare starting pay wages with operators in “third world” countries

The government sees flightcrew as essential employees and would force those workers back to work taking away their bargaining power.

How?

I know they did (or attempted to) do that in the past. But how was that enforced?

Something to this effect...

'Air Canada’s 6,800 flight attendants called off their planned strike after a move from the federal Conservatives made a walkout illegal.

The procedural move came after Labour Minister Lisa Raitt sent the long-simmering dispute to the Canada Industrial Relations Board for review, citing concern about whether the flight attendants provide an essential service so the health and safety of the nation would be in jeopardy in the event of a strike.'

From the Toronto Star 2011. Can't remember if they did the same thing for the CAW employees as well due to travel disruptions.

They just will it as illegal and disrupt the legal striking process before it's had a chance to benefit the striking party.

[7ECA]

How?

I know they did (or attempted to) do that in the past. But how was that enforced?

Can an employee who occupies a designated position cross a picket line to report to work?

Employees who occupy designated positions are prohibited from participating in a strike and must report to work.

Also:

What are essential services?

The Government of Canada must ensure that Canadians have access to essential services in the event of a strike. The Public Service Labour Relations Act defines an essential service as: "a service, facility or activity of the Government of Canada that is or will be, at any time, necessary for the safety or security of the public or a segment of the public."

From the "Essential Services" - FAQ's page.

https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board ... vices.html

[altiplano]

The government sees flightcrew as essential employees and would force those workers back to work taking away their bargaining power.

How?

I know they did (or attempted to) do that in the past. But how was that enforced?

Something to this effect...

'Air Canada’s 6,800 flight attendants called off their planned strike after a move from the federal Conservatives made a walkout illegal.

The procedural move came after Labour Minister Lisa Raitt sent the long-simmering dispute to the Canada Industrial Relations Board for review, citing concern about whether the flight attendants provide an essential service so the health and safety of the nation would be in jeopardy in the event of a strike.'

From the Toronto Star 2011. Can't remember if they did the same thing for the CAW employees as well due to travel disruptions.

They just will it as illegal and disrupt the legal striking process before it's had a chance to benefit the striking party.

That would be challenged and they would lose if a union has the fortitude to follow it through.

Supreme court precedent exists.

[schnitzel2k3]

How?

I know they did (or attempted to) do that in the past. But how was that enforced?

Something to this effect...

'Air Canada’s 6,800 flight attendants called off their planned strike after a move from the federal Conservatives made a walkout illegal.

The procedural move came after Labour Minister Lisa Raitt sent the long-simmering dispute to the Canada Industrial Relations Board for review, citing concern about whether the flight attendants provide an essential service so the health and safety of the nation would be in jeopardy in the event of a strike.'

From the Toronto Star 2011. Can't remember if they did the same thing for the CAW employees as well due to travel disruptions.

They just will it as illegal and disrupt the legal striking process before it's had a chance to benefit the striking party.

That would be challenged and they would lose if a union has the fortitude to follow it through.

Supreme court precedent exists.

Knowing your dislike for ACPA now, I'm sure you'd agree in this day and age that ACPA lacks such a fortitude to challenge both the government and AC management in the quest for wages and working conditions inline with the greater industry.

[altiplano]

Management wannabes. They lack fortitude and everything else.

[Inverted2]

I hate to say it but there’s a big recession coming soon on both sides of the border with the added bonus of hyper inflation. I don’t think a lot of folks realize how bad this is going to be. Throw in a new release of covid 2.0 this fall just to throw fuel on the fire. Hold on to your seats.

[schnitzel2k3]

I hate to say it but there’s a big recession coming soon on both sides of the border with the added bonus of hyper inflation. I don’t think a lot of folks realize how bad this is going to be. Throw in a new release of covid 2.0 this fall just to throw fuel on the fire. Hold on to your seats.

I'm very curious about your economic knowledge and experience.

[DanWEC]

This was mentioned before, and I still can't find the reference, but I am 99.9% sure that the standing legislation that was specifically created to allow Raitt to enforce the back-to-work action is no longer in force. I'm not sure how the structure works, whether it expired, or wasn't permanently written, not sure, but I know I read a report about 3 years ago stating it was "Quietly removed".

[Inverted2]

I hate to say it but there’s a big recession coming soon on both sides of the border with the added bonus of hyper inflation. I don’t think a lot of folks realize how bad this is going to be. Throw in a new release of covid 2.0 this fall just to throw fuel on the fire. Hold on to your seats.

I'm very curious about your economic knowledge and experience.

I’m definitely not an economist, trust me. I do know some pretty well versed people on the subject though. Just look at the prices of everything. Everything costs more but wages are stagnant for the most part. The interest rates are going up as well. Eventually something’s gotta give. Don’t need an economic degree to see what’s on the horizon. Don’t shoot the messenger!

[bcflyer]

There is zero reason to go on strike. We seem to have forgotten the power we have on the everyday operation. If pilots would just fly their schedule to the letter of their contract things would change pretty quickly. No overtime, no extending for UOC, no flying fatigued, no hurrying to get to their next flight, no helping out crew Sked when things fall apart, no checking in for work early.. The list goes on and on. Unfortunately pilots love to bitch but then climb all over each other to work overtime and help out. Until that mentality stops nothing will change….

[goingmissed]

There is zero reason to go on strike. We seem to have forgotten the power we have on the everyday operation. If pilots would just fly their schedule to the letter of their contract things would change pretty quickly. No overtime, no extending for UOC, no flying fatigued, no hurrying to get to their next flight, no helping out crew Sked when things fall apart, no checking in for work early.. The list goes on and on. Unfortunately pilots love to bitch but then climb all over each other to work overtime and help out. Until that mentality stops nothing will change….

Maybe, just maybe, people are picking up OT because they cannot afford not to.

But there is never an excuse to fly fatigued... that's selfish and dangerous.

[bcflyer]

There is zero reason to go on strike. We seem to have forgotten the power we have on the everyday operation. If pilots would just fly their schedule to the letter of their contract things would change pretty quickly. No overtime, no extending for UOC, no flying fatigued, no hurrying to get to their next flight, no helping out crew Sked when things fall apart, no checking in for work early.. The list goes on and on. Unfortunately pilots love to bitch but then climb all over each other to work overtime and help out. Until that mentality stops nothing will change….

Maybe, just maybe, people are picking up OT because they cannot afford not to.

But there is never an excuse to fly fatigued... that's selfish and dangerous.

I’m not defending low pay in any way. I’m embarrassed by the starting pay where I fly. Having said that, everyone knows the starting pay before they accept a job. If it’s not enough to survive on without doing OT then don’t take the job. Shortage of pilots willing to work for crap wages combined with nobody doing OT is the quickest way to get a pay raise.

[schnitzel2k3]

Not trying to shoot the messenger, just saying, look at more data points and less for profit media. Doom and gloom tends to be a mental state and self fulfilling. The more people think economy is slowing, more likely they are going to mattress their money out of fear, instead of just going about their day and spending on normal items.

A note: recession just means negative economic growth compared to the last quarter, which has to happen to reign in this runaway economy. 2019 was a 1.95% year, 2018 2.15%. This year is forecast to be an average of 5.14%, it's higher than 5% for sure, but it looks like its halted. We need to lose 3-4% of the spending going on in the economy (groceries, travel, gas, housing, vehicles, toys, etc) that was heavily supported with stimulus and near 0% loans.

BoC will likely overshoot rate adjustments to aggressively tamp down growth. Will likely taper back to neutral 2023/24. What this does it take 'free' investment money out of the stock market, hence why stocks have been tumbling, but it will bottom out shortly once the free money bubbles are sorted. Some people made lots of money, many others lost. Nature of the business.

As I see it, airlines might be given a slight chance to catch up with demand, but demand isn't going anywhere, particularly in the U.S. Essentially we are catching up on 2 years of doing nothing, which is why the economy peeled rubber coming out of 2021, and going through 2022.

Steady as she goes, and as fun as it is to be Nostradamus, it does absolutely nothing to help.

[goingmissed]

I’m not defending low pay in any way. I’m embarrassed by the starting pay where I fly. Having said that, everyone knows the starting pay before they accept a job. If it’s not enough to survive on without doing OT then don’t take the job. Shortage of pilots willing to work for crap wages combined with nobody doing OT is the quickest way to get a pay raise.

You do realize how much the landscape has changed in the past three years, right?

Bank of Canada states that inflation has been over 11% since 2019, but we all know that the cost of living has increased more than that.

Now, compare that with the 6% that our starting salaries have increased. Add in the extra debt carried by those who were laid off and now you're just starting to see why there are so many pilots who were barely okay before COVID with the starting salaries and who are drowning now. Ask your first officers how many jobs they're working right now.

My starting salary was great compared to the salary I was making before. Before COVID I was living paycheck to paycheck, but level... after COVID I am in the decline again.

[schnitzel2k3]

There is zero reason to go on strike. We seem to have forgotten the power we have on the everyday operation. If pilots would just fly their schedule to the letter of their contract things would change pretty quickly. No overtime, no extending for UOC, no flying fatigued, no hurrying to get to their next flight, no helping out crew Sked when things fall apart, no checking in for work early.. The list goes on and on. Unfortunately pilots love to bitch but then climb all over each other to work overtime and help out. Until that mentality stops nothing will change….

Maybe, just maybe, people are picking up OT because they cannot afford not to.

But there is never an excuse to fly fatigued... that's selfish and dangerous.

Shortage of pilots willing to work for crap wages combined with nobody doing OT is the quickest way to get a pay raise.

Correction: Pilots not taking the sh*t package to begin with is a much faster way to increase starting pay.

That being said, when the "only company worth flying for" is big Red, and they pay what they pay, well...not much you can do.

The union has failed that pilot group so hard, they are absolutely oblivious to the train wreck of an industry they've left in their wake.

We need more high level competition in Canada. This industry is full of ULCC garbage and it's exhausting watching it spit off the copier.

[FelixGustof]

There is zero reason to go on strike. We seem to have forgotten the power we have on the everyday operation. If pilots would just fly their schedule to the letter of their contract things would change pretty quickly. No overtime, no extending for UOC, no flying fatigued, no hurrying to get to their next flight, no helping out crew Sked when things fall apart, no checking in for work early.. The list goes on and on. Unfortunately pilots love to bitch but then climb all over each other to work overtime and help out. Until that mentality stops nothing will change….

Maybe, just maybe, people are picking up OT because they cannot afford not to.

But there is never an excuse to fly fatigued... that's selfish and dangerous.

I’m not defending low pay in any way. I’m embarrassed by the starting pay where I fly. Having said that, everyone knows the starting pay before they accept a job. If it’s not enough to survive on without doing OT then don’t take the job. Shortage of pilots willing to work for crap wages combined with nobody doing OT is the quickest way to get a pay raise.

Is it a bad time to get into aviation then?

[bcflyer]

I’m not defending low pay in any way. I’m embarrassed by the starting pay where I fly. Having said that, everyone knows the starting pay before they accept a job. If it’s not enough to survive on without doing OT then don’t take the job. Shortage of pilots willing to work for crap wages combined with nobody doing OT is the quickest way to get a pay raise.

You do realize how much the landscape has changed in the past three years, right?

Bank of Canada states that inflation has been over 11% since 2019, but we all know that the cost of living has increased more than that.

Now, compare that with the 6% that our starting salaries have increased. Add in the extra debt carried by those who were laid off and now you're just starting to see why there are so many pilots who were barely okay before COVID with the starting salaries and who are drowning now. Ask your first officers how many jobs they're working right now.

My starting salary was great compared to the salary I was making before. Before COVID I was living paycheck to paycheck, but level... after COVID I am in the decline again.

You know what? I’m done. It’s fu#ki#g ridiculous that instead of embracing ways to put pressure on companies to raise wages and improve working conditions, people would rather make excuses for why they won’t do it. It’s absolutely pathetic. No wonder we can never get ahead…..

[goldeneagle]

I’m not defending low pay in any way. I’m embarrassed by the starting pay where I fly. Having said that, everyone knows the starting pay before they accept a job. If it’s not enough to survive on without doing OT then don’t take the job. Shortage of pilots willing to work for crap wages combined with nobody doing OT is the quickest way to get a pay raise.

32 years ago I had an offer from a regional, couldn't see how to make ends meet on that wage, I said no. I left aviation and went into engineering, turns out the pinky ring is worth WAY more than an ATPL ever will be.

A few years later, I was headed to an overseas client location, walking up to the terminal at YVR the boys from that regional were walking a picket line, I know most of them. They were hollering at me 'hey goldeneagle, you know how bad it is, dont cross the picket line, support us'. My response to them.

'You took the job in spite of the low wages. I had to leave flying because folks like you were willing to whore yourself out for next to nothing just to get some hours on a bigger airplane. You made your bed, now go lay in it'. With that I walked thru the picket line and went inside to check in at BA for a flight to London.

All the folks here whining about low wages and suggesting 'if only the other guys wouldn't take the job at such a low rate, then I could make more money'. What many of you dont seem to understand, you are 'that other guy' to everybody else. If you took the low paying job, then YOU are the problem.

[NovaBoy]

https://www.aviationweekly.org/news/ame ... ps-in-july