AIRLINE CHAOS.

[rookiepilot]

Well documented in the Media……personally i think if they paid people fairly, they’d come back to work. No excuses, management. I run a small business, don’t do “excuses”. Hire appropriate staff!

Here’s the back story on the 30 people kicked off this flight:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal ... -1.6496539

I heard from a reliable source AC screwed up and loaded too much cargo on the flight….rather than take it off, easier to have police gestapo yank people off. Pretty disgusting. Wonder how the police feel about being AC’s personal goon squad when they are lying.

My own story. Just back in Canada after a multi week Asia trip. 10 flights total. Long, short, most in economy. Multiple different carriers. All went well even though everyone is dealing with the same issues. Until the last (long international) one…AC.

Like back to the bad old days i thought were behind AC. 7 hour delay. Their fault. Last second notice. No rebooking or required tariff compensation offered. (Violation of their own tariff) Dirty plane. Old, surly, lazy, cabin staff. Unapologetic for delay. Checked masks and berated pax loudly throughout flight. Never checked seatbelts. (Seriously!) Not impressed. Read the room, AC.

No answer trying to call or message them either. “See our website”

Have three - 4 more more international trips planned in next 12 months. Won’t be AC. I’ll happily pay more. I’ll email for my legally owed compensation, and they will ignore it. Prediction.

Venting over.

[digits_]

Why is it a factor that cabin staff might be old?

[rookiepilot]

Why is it a factor that cabin staff might be old?

Not safe In my OP. Watching them move about, or barely able to move about, that is my view. I wouldn’t have trusted half of them in an emergency.

Did I mention they never checked seatbelts once? That is before takeoff or landing too.

Next question.

[yhz41]

Why is it a factor that cabin staff might be old?

Not safe In my OP. Watching them move about, or barely able to move about, that is my view. I wouldn’t have trusted half of them in an emergency.

Did I mention they never checked seatbelts once? That is before takeoff or landing too.

Next question.

You're a grown up, you can ensure that your own seat belt is fastened. It would seem your favourite activity is to complain about anything and everything so. No one wants to hear what you have to say about one time a flight attendant was mean to you so now you will spend forever hating air canada.

[rookiepilot]

Why is it a factor that cabin staff might be old?

Not safe In my OP. Watching them move about, or barely able to move about, that is my view. I wouldn’t have trusted half of them in an emergency.

Did I mention they never checked seatbelts once? That is before takeoff or landing too.

Next question.

You're a grown up, you can ensure that your own seat belt is fastened. It would seem your favourite activity is to complain about anything and everything so. No one wants to hear what you have to say about one time a flight attendant was mean to you so now you will spend forever hating air canada.

I’m exerting pressure to enact change by writing about it. That a problem?

Do you work for them? Do the same. Or don’t read this thread. You are probably fine with AC kicking 30 pax off for cargo too, so i’ll ignore you now.

[SPR]

So you want AC to fire employees for being old? You're complaining about delays and short-staffing, but you want them to further reduce staffing levels because some of their workers are, in your estimation, old?

[rookiepilot]

So you want AC to fire employees for being old? You're complaining about delays and short-staffing, but you want them to further reduce staffing levels because some of their workers are, in your estimation, old?

No, I’m complaining about primarily about employees refusing to honor their own tariff.

The rudeness and poor attitude to everyone on board after a 7 hour delay doesn’t help my sympathy quotient. And they were unsafe in my opinion as a pilot too.

Short staffed?

Raise pay. This ain't complicated, people.

And lets agree people. If you work for AC, and are mindless drones defending them, be honest and disclose it before comments on this post, so i know who to ignore.

[WellThatAgedWell]

Canada is definitely behind the 8 ball with trying to reopen. It's not the pilots they need to pay more. They have the flight crews. It's mostly the airports, ground crews, security, gtaa, customer service type positions they will have a hard time filling. I think they have already given some big raises to some of these types of jobs.

It won't happen this summer, as long as they keep the staff on if things slow down this fall they might be able to have a normal looking summer 2023.

Pre covid air Canada was turning itself around. It's a shame as lots of the old complaining about AC that used to happen decades ago is all coming back. It takes decades to build a good reputation, and it will only take summer of 2022 to ruin that progress. I don't blame you for looking at foreign carriers for your travel. Honestly that's really shitty if true, passengers bump for cargo. We already know the shit storm these passengers face, and now they also just get randomly booted? Crazy.

[palebird]

I would think that you might know a thing or two about AC if you are posting here on this subject. Fact is AC cabin crew union rules are used to ensure the most senior staff get the "best" routes. And that always means that if you are long hauling international with AC the cabin crew will be useless. Old at AC means, essentially, I don't do anything except collect my gravy droppings because I earned the right to act like this. What a sad life these people live in AC world. How would I know? Well traveled the world relentlessly for 35 years and spent a few at AC. AC is, hands down, one of the worst carriers in the world. To be avoided. I would go out of my way to not fly AC internationally. National embarrassment.

[eyebrow737]

I would think that you might know a thing or two about AC if you are posting here on this subject. Fact is AC cabin crew union rules are used to ensure the most senior staff get the "best" routes. And that always means that if you are long hauling international with AC the cabin crew will be useless. Old at AC means, essentially, I don't do anything except collect my gravy droppings because I earned the right to act like this. What a sad life these people live in AC world. How would I know? Well traveled the world relentlessly for 35 years and spent a few at AC. AC is, hands down, one of the worst carriers in the world. To be avoided. I would go out of my way to not fly AC internationally. National embarrassment.

Couldn't agree more. I was on a paid flight the other day which was delayed by a few hours. I went to another earlier flight to see if I could get on. Stood patiently in front of the CSA at the desk who ignored me. Waited about 4 minutes before she finally acknowledged me with an annoyed look and a 'what?!'

No, good afternoon sir, how can I help?

When did this become normal? How is this acceptable? How is this person not fired on the spot. Just disgraceful. Only AC with their privileged 'the government will always bail us out no matter how shitty we are' attitude can get away with this. Any other airline would have folded years ago when the customer had exercised their choice elsewhere.

We've lost the plot

[WellThatAgedWell]

Couldn't agree more. I was on a paid flight the other day which was delayed by a few hours. I went to another earlier flight to see if I could get on. Stood patiently in front of the CSA at the desk who ignored me. Waited about 4 minutes before she finally acknowledged me with an annoyed look and a 'what?!'

No, good afternoon sir, how can I help?

When did this become normal? How is this acceptable? How is this person not fired on the spot. Just disgraceful. Only AC with their privileged 'the government will always bail us out no matter how shitty we are' attitude can get away with this. Any other airline would have folded years ago when the customer had exercised their choice elsewhere.

We've lost the plot

They got the government worker attitude without the government pension. Try going into your local city Hall for a permit and it's the same thing. Try going to triage at a hospital, same attitude.

The attitude is "I already have your money and I'm going to get paid no matter what so I don't care."

No one is competing for your business. From their perspective you should just feel lucky if they let you on the plane.

[rookiepilot]

The Narrative too is AC is the safest airline in the world and so we should all be happy, and much much safer than all of the Asian carriers who are death traps if you believe this site.

That is (also) total BS. I don’t recall Singapore airlines or Cathay almost taking out an entire row of planes on a taxiway.

I must have missed a whole pile of incident reports.

This is fun. Any AC employees want to answer get shredded some more?

[DanWEC]

The only regimes that are suffering from employment shortages are ones that have disproportionately crappy wages and conditions.
Restaurants can't find cooks now- because it's a horrible job for the pay, and now it's going up like crazy. Airlines and airports can't find workers because it flat out SUCKS to work in or out of an airport, for the pay. I've been on the fence about going back to work because of how much I actually loathe the environment outside of the flight deck.

Misinformed people will believe that the labour shortage is because of lazy people sitting at home collecting govt money, and while this was a small factor, those benefits ran out long ago. The truth is people who got laid off from crappy jobs had 2 full years to retrain, educate themselves etc, and have moved on to greener pastures by virtue of an involuntary cutting-of-the-cord, instead of languishing handcuffed in their stockholm syndrome job.
It's going to take a lot of very justified and necessary improvements to get people to work in these previously exploitive positions again, especially when the salary can't even buy a house in Labrador.

[rookiepilot]

The only regimes that are suffering from employment shortages are ones that have disproportionately crappy wages and conditions.
Restaurants can't find cooks now- because it's a horrible job for the pay, and now it's going up like crazy. Airlines and airports can't find workers because it flat out SUCKS to work in or out of an airport, for the pay. I've been on the fence about going back to work because of how much I actually loathe the environment outside of the flight deck.

Misinformed people will believe that the labour shortage is because of lazy people sitting at home collecting govt money, and while this was a small factor, those benefits ran out long ago. The truth is people who got laid off from crappy jobs had 2 full years to retrain, educate themselves etc, and have moved on to greener pastures by virtue of an involuntary cutting-of-the-cord, instead of languishing handcuffed in their stockholm syndrome job.
It's going to take a lot of very justified and necessary improvements to get people to work in these previously exploitive positions again, especially when the salary can't even buy a house in Labrador.

Its amazing what a 10 dollar an hour pay raise will do. Raise wages. Raise fares.

Not complicated. Otherwise i agree with your post and the latest others posts too.

Oh, and push out the old farts who have zero, i mean zero chance of removing a hatch in an emergency. Ones i saw, took 2 of them to close a bin i can do with one hand.

Quit. You’re dangerous. I don’t want you on my aircraft.

[rookiepilot]

Its not just passengers AC is hurting.

Its the countless small hotels and restaurants that depend on tourism. Small aircraft charters. Loads of bookings are gonna be cancelled. Right after a pandemic when they need those dollars.

But i guess, like everything else, being a positive contributor to the economy isn’t something AC cares about. Lot in common with the transport minister, who has repeatedly blamed passengers for the problems.

Surprised he hasn’t blamed hotels for welcoming guests again.

[WellThatAgedWell]

Its not just passengers AC is hurting.

Its the countless small hotels and restaurants that depend on tourism. Small aircraft charters. Loads of bookings are gonna be cancelled. Right after a pandemic when they need those dollars.

But i guess, like everything else, being a positive contributor to the economy isn’t something AC cares about. Lot in common with the transport minister, who has repeatedly blamed passengers for the problems.

Surprised he hasn’t blamed hotels for welcoming guests again.

AC only needs to be accountable to its customers. All the other noise about the economy and the struggles of all these different industries that’s on our government. It would be nice to see things bounce back, unfortunately by the time they get somewhat sorted out travel and tourism is going to get thrown back into the dumpster. I will bet you by years end the big airlines in Canada will stop hiring pilots again as the recession sinks in.

If you are looking for a job, avoid restaurants, hotels, airlines for the next couple years (or maybe just forever, because the government will definitely shut you down next time the sniffles go around) Just remember how the government dealt with Covid as a reminder of what’s in your future when you decide where to work. What’s the saying? Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

[Inverted2]

Governments fault 100%. Many of these workers got laid off during the Covid theatre and found jobs elsewhere. Why would you want to come back to this mess when the idiots in Ottawa could shut it down again at a moments notice? Not like the jobs were good paying to begin with. I’m sure a lot left after a trip to the YYZ RAIC office too.

[WellThatAgedWell]

Governments fault 100%. Many of these workers got laid off during the Covid theatre and found jobs elsewhere. Why would you want to come back to this mess when the idiots in Ottawa could shut it down again at a moments notice? Not like the jobs were good paying to begin with. I’m sure a lot left after a trip to the YYZ RAIC office too.

The Toronto raic office is fucking mint! Love this place.

You know how it works, you first go in and say “hey there’s no open appointments to book”. Then they will tell you they release new ones every day so just keep trying. And you are like ok! And you hit refresh like 30 times a day to see if an appointment opens up. Then you think maybe late at night no one is checking, so you start setting your alarm for 2 am and wake up and refresh to see if you can get one. Then finally one opens up after two weeks of hitting refresh but it happens to be on a day you are out of town…. So you book that one and then you go to the WhatsApp raic appointment trade chat and you try to find someone in the same situation as you to trade appointments.

If this fails you just go in with no appointment for a second time and just demand they take you in and process you… they eventually get you through the process but not without making an example of you. You sit in the hallway and they come out every 10 minutes and say “oh you are the one with no appointment right?” They point at you and give you the evil eye because you are a degenerate who is entitled. Everyone else in line is thinking how fucking hard they worked to get an appointment and you POS just comes in thinking you can cut the line. How dare you cut all these people in line. You need to do more refreshing on your browser to find an appointment!

And finally you get in and your raic is processed… you realize you now have the “right to work” that minimum wage airport job. Yippee! Now just hope JT doesn’t get you laid off so you can go back and do this all again in two years. Oh one last thing, that was for your temporary pass… start over again from the top once your raic is finally processed for the Encore.

[fish4life]

I don’t buy the loaded too much cargo so had to bump people narrative. Any widebody aircraft is going to be under gross weight at that length of route. Also kicking off passengers is a big pain in the ass and normally requires pulling bag which takes much longer than dumping some cargo.

[Aviatard]

Old, surly, lazy, cabin staff.

What is the maximum amount of old that you’d find acceptable? There must be a line you’d draw somewhere.

[AirFrame]

I don’t recall Singapore airlines or Cathay almost taking out an entire row of planes on a taxiway.

Almost? So AC didn't actually do that? Gee, Singapore and Cathay haven't done it either. What local incidents in Singapore might have happened that weren't reported here, I wonder?

[SPR]

Old, surly, lazy, cabin staff.

What is the maximum amount of old that you’d find acceptable? There must be a line you’d draw somewhere.

Anyone older than him is infirm and needs to retire. Anyone younger than him is lazy and incompetent.

[Blueontop]

Its not just passengers AC is hurting.

Its the countless small hotels and restaurants that depend on tourism. Small aircraft charters. Loads of bookings are gonna be cancelled. Right after a pandemic when they need those dollars.

But i guess, like everything else, being a positive contributor to the economy isn’t something AC cares about. Lot in common with the transport minister, who has repeatedly blamed passengers for the problems.

Surprised he hasn’t blamed hotels for welcoming guests again.

AC only needs to be accountable to its customers. All the other noise about the economy and the struggles of all these different industries that’s on our government. It would be nice to see things bounce back, unfortunately by the time they get somewhat sorted out travel and tourism is going to get thrown back into the dumpster. I will bet you by years end the big airlines in Canada will stop hiring pilots again as the recession sinks in.

If you are looking for a job, avoid restaurants, hotels, airlines for the next couple years (or maybe just forever, because the government will definitely shut you down next time the sniffles go around) Just remember how the government dealt with Covid as a reminder of what’s in your future when you decide where to work. What’s the saying? Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Think it goes “ya fool me once, can’t fool me again!”

[CpnCrunch]

I run a small business, don’t do “excuses”. Hire appropriate staff!

Isn't your business just yourself?

Have three - 4 more more international trips planned in next 12 months. Won’t be AC. I’ll happily pay more. I’ll email for my legally owed compensation, and they will ignore it. Prediction.

Venting over.

So which airline are you going to use? Not really much choice. You can try WJ but they had the same problems around xmas. It was an absolute dumpster fire of every flight cancelled or delayed, combined with shitty / non-existent customer service. They seem to have since sorted out their problems, so I guess it's AC's turn right now. But I don't think either of them are any better or worse than the other.

As for compensation: I'm not sure about AC, but WJ's policy it basically to delay and lie about it. But if you are sure you are due compensation and you have the appropriate proof, take them to the small claims court and they'll eventually cough up.

[pelmet]

The Narrative too is AC is the safest airline in the world and so we should all be happy, and much much safer than all of the Asian carriers who are death traps if you believe this site.

That is (also) total BS. I don’t recall Singapore airlines or Cathay almost taking out an entire row of planes on a taxiway.

I do remember Singapore taking out a row of construction equipment in Taipei. Killed quite a few.

As for the attitude....probably just representative of Canada.