What to expect as a new Fo.

[JackLeCoq]

Lowest paid 330 FO on Earth

I can’t comment on whether he will be lowest paid 330 FO on earth. But, he won’t be the lowest 330 pilot after the flat pay is finished. There are worse positions to be in in aviation than sitting in the right seat of a 330 on flat pay. He, and every other pilot, knew what the wage structure is at AC before he got hired. He can always try and get the Left seat on an equipment before the 4 years is up.


Back to OP… where will you be commuting from and where to? Any idea what equipment you will be on? Many factors will affect your ease of commuting \ schedule.

Rationalizing the unrationable

No excuse for a 330FO making less than the FAs he or she is flying around

No excuse for being the only airline on the continent without a commuting policy

Left seat Narrowbody so junior because it's such an awful lifestyle

I hope people with this kind of thought process aren't anywhere near a union. Hot Damn this post is a pile

Tabarnac

[schnitzel2k3]

This is why there's been no progress at Air Canada in over 20 years. Didn't know sycophant was an official requirement to become an Air Canada flight crew member.

Everyone selling left seat bids at YR2/3 as the bandaid to flat pay need to take a long walk off a short pier.

Nearly every N.A carrier is sub 3 years to upgrade as well, with starting wages averaging 100k for 1st year, and nearly doubling for 2nd. 1st year Captains nearing 250k USD per year at most other N.A major airlines, in the exact same market, same scope, and same league as Air Canada. How are guys still making 56k to start and less than 6 figures at min guarantees for the first 4 years flying triples and 87s across both ponds?

Don't get me started on the layoffs not giving guys credit for the last 2 years. Absolute disgrace.

Embarrassed, is all the guys should feel who support in any way shape or form the current industry crushing package at Air Canada.

[newlygrounded]

This is why there's been no progress at Air Canada in over 20 years. Didn't know sycophant was an official requirement to become an Air Canada flight crew member.

Everyone selling left seat bids at YR2/3 as the bandaid to flat pay need to take a long walk off a short pier.

Nearly every N.A carrier is sub 3 years to upgrade as well, with starting wages averaging 100k for 1st year, and nearly doubling for 2nd. 1st year Captains nearing 250k USD per year at most other N.A major airlines, in the exact same market, same scope, and same league as Air Canada. How are guys still making 56k to start and less than 6 figures at min guarantees for the first 4 years flying triples and 87s across both ponds?

Don't get me started on the layoffs not giving guys credit for the last 2 years. Absolute disgrace.

Embarrassed, is all the guys should feel who support in any way shape or form the current industry crushing package at Air Canada.

Don't worry, the explanation is despite flying the same equipment, routes, and often passengers we're not comparable to the US.

[JHR]

Hopefully flat pay will be abolished now that GS courses are going unfilled

[CPT.HarshColdReality]

Unfilled? Really? Already? Even with the pile of guys waiting at Jazz?

[JHR]

Heard it from an inside source. Haven't been able to verify it personally. Maybe someone else can chime in

[PostmasterGeneral]

Unfilled? Really? Already? Even with the pile of guys waiting at Jazz?

Jazz won’t release ‘em till the fall or winter, or maybe never if the union agrees to another LOU voiding the 60% or whatever.

[Inverted2]

Unfilled? Really? Already? Even with the pile of guys waiting at Jazz?

Jazz won’t release ‘em till the fall or winter, or maybe never if the union agrees to another LOU voiding the 60% or whatever.

Just in time for layoffs when the economy melts down this fall and we enter the 9th wave.

[rudder]

Unfilled? Really? Already? Even with the pile of guys waiting at Jazz?

Jazz won’t release ‘em till the fall or winter, or maybe never if the union agrees to another LOU voiding the 60% or whatever.

Re: empty GS seats and Jazz

Until there is a multilateral acknowledgement (AC/ACPA/Jazz/ALPA) that the AC pilot labour workforce is integrated (I said integrated - not merged), the pilot staffing problems at AC and Jazz will persist.

AC needs AC code flights staffed. Hundreds are mainline flights, and hundreds are Express. To AC it is all the same - AC code and AC revenue. The pilot labour segregation began as a cost saving maneuver. I wonder circa 2022 if it is saving $$ or actually costing $$?

There are many deficiencies manifest in both the AC and Jazz labour agreements that are barriers to effective pilot staffing. These need to be dealt with. If the proposals are just bandaids then the patient will still bleed to death.

Now is the best time to create a sustainable and efficient pilot labour staffing arrangement. It involves all contributing parties acting in concert, not independently.

There are no signs that this dialogue has begun in any meaningful or coordinated fashion. Instead, multiple independent conversations involving some but not all of the players. That is a shame because now seems like the perfect time to address each of the parties perceived (or real) barriers to long term success.

[a2btrail]

Unfilled? Really? Already? Even with the pile of guys waiting at Jazz?

Jazz won’t release ‘em till the fall or winter, or maybe never if the union agrees to another LOU voiding the 60% or whatever.

Re: empty GS seats and Jazz

Until there is a multilateral acknowledgement (AC/ACPA/Jazz/ALPA) that the AC pilot labour workforce is integrated (I said integrated - not merged), the pilot staffing problems at AC and Jazz will persist.

AC needs AC code flights staffed. Hundreds are mainline flights, and hundreds are Express. To AC it is all the same - AC code and AC revenue. The pilot labour segregation began as a cost saving maneuver. I wonder circa 2022 if it is saving $$ or actually costing $$?

There are many deficiencies manifest in both the AC and Jazz labour agreements that are barriers to effective pilot staffing. These need to be dealt with. If the proposals are just bandaids then the patient will still bleed to death.

Now is the best time to create a sustainable and efficient pilot labour staffing arrangement. It involves all contributing parties acting in concert, not independently.

There are no signs that this dialogue has begun in any meaningful or coordinated fashion. Instead, multiple independent conversations involving some but not all of the players. That is a shame because now seems like the perfect time to address each of the parties perceived (or real) barriers to long term success.

100% agree. Unity is the only way. Though sadly most Canadian pilots will disagree even now. Progress is through partnership. Though a different market to the south of us.... they are getting it... US mainline carrier pilot groups and their respective regional carriers pilot groups are forgetting the past and working together more than ever before. Unfortunately here in Canada pilots believe that stepping on top of each other or making another upcoming pilot suffer because they did is progress. Air Canada and Jazz/Chorus have been playing on this for years well before the pandemic.

[newcomer]

Hopefully flat pay will be abolished now that GS courses are going unfilled

I'de be very surprised: applied the 1st day of the job posting, 8500h tt, PIC on 737 and 320, bilingual French/English, Bachelor's degree, and can't even get a call for an interview

[rudder]

Jazz won’t release ‘em till the fall or winter, or maybe never if the union agrees to another LOU voiding the 60% or whatever.

Re: empty GS seats and Jazz

Until there is a multilateral acknowledgement (AC/ACPA/Jazz/ALPA) that the AC pilot labour workforce is integrated (I said integrated - not merged), the pilot staffing problems at AC and Jazz will persist.

AC needs AC code flights staffed. Hundreds are mainline flights, and hundreds are Express. To AC it is all the same - AC code and AC revenue. The pilot labour segregation began as a cost saving maneuver. I wonder circa 2022 if it is saving $$ or actually costing $$?

There are many deficiencies manifest in both the AC and Jazz labour agreements that are barriers to effective pilot staffing. These need to be dealt with. If the proposals are just bandaids then the patient will still bleed to death.

Now is the best time to create a sustainable and efficient pilot labour staffing arrangement. It involves all contributing parties acting in concert, not independently.

There are no signs that this dialogue has begun in any meaningful or coordinated fashion. Instead, multiple independent conversations involving some but not all of the players. That is a shame because now seems like the perfect time to address each of the parties perceived (or real) barriers to long term success.

100% agree. Unity is the only way. Though sadly most Canadian pilots will disagree even now. Progress is through partnership. Though a different market to the south of us.... they are getting it... US mainline carrier pilot groups and their respective regional carriers pilot groups are forgetting the past and working together more than ever before. Unfortunately here in Canada pilots believe that stepping on top of each other or making another upcoming pilot suffer because they did is progress. Air Canada and Jazz/Chorus have been playing on this for years well before the pandemic.

You know what? It isn’t really ‘unity’ - it is common sense. Try to come up with a deal where one groups gain is not another groups loss. Yes, it will cost the employer(s) more in pay rates, and so it should. The pilot shortage free ride is over. But it will also create long term savings and more importantly assure operational integrity via predictability.

Unfortunately, there are individuals within the ‘silos’ (including management) that are and will forever be opposed to this outcome. That is the true barrier.

p.s. you could even include mainline pay rates for Express sized aircraft if that is where this ultimately needs to go. All parties need to expand their range of potential outcomes.

[a2btrail]

True!

[Cavalier44]

Hopefully flat pay will be abolished now that GS courses are going unfilled

I'de be very surprised: applied the 1st day of the job posting, 8500h tt, PIC on 737 and 320, bilingual French/English, Bachelor's degree, and can't even get a call for an interview

Is your application active in the system? Did you receive a confirmation email after you submitted your application? The online application client is very finicky with regards to what types of web browsers it likes and which versions of said browsers. I've heard of several guys submitting their applications and thinking they weren't getting a call for an interview when in reality their application was never actually submitted into the system due to IT issues.

[newcomer]

Yes, I did receive the confirmation email.
After 3 months I sent an email to HR just to be sure, they confirmed my application is in their system and that I will be contacted if/when they decide to do so

[ogopogo]

FWIW, the young guy (26) I mentioned above got in with 2500 hrs, a short stint at Medevac flying and a short stint at WJ. His Dad tells me he was a Webster finalist and that guarantees you an interview.

[Fidget]

Heard it from an inside source. Haven't been able to verify it personally. Maybe someone else can chime in

Rumour. Heard straight from VP. One class was smaller to allow the training and checking department to catch up. There have been some that declined last minute due to vaccination status but many applications on file including overseas pilots looking to come home.

[780Pilot]

FWIW, the young guy (26) I mentioned above got in with 2500 hrs, a short stint at Medevac flying and a short stint at WJ. His Dad tells me he was a Webster finalist and that guarantees you an interview.

True. Buddy of mine was a finalist from 2019. The second you hit AC mins you can get an interview.

[bobcaygeon]

Anyone share what life is like as a new FO who is commuting. Would I ever be home? How many days off do you get?

As it is right now I don’t know how commuters make it work.

Everything is either 1. Oversold 2. Hours late or 3. Canceled.

There's lots of room most days because everyone misses their connections. Seats available on employee travel website 0. Seats available at pushback =35

[CPT.HarshColdReality]

Anyone share what life is like as a new FO who is commuting. Would I ever be home? How many days off do you get?

As it is right now I don’t know how commuters make it work.

Everything is either 1. Oversold 2. Hours late or 3. Canceled.

There's lots of room most days because everyone misses their connections. Seats available on employee travel website 0. Seats available at pushback =35

I have seen this multiple times.