At a crossroad in training options

[Barf_Bag]

Hey guys,

I'm writing here because I have a big decision to make within the next few weeks and I'm looking for a few more opinions from pro pilots to make sure I'm fully informed.

I recently got accepted at CQFA (the public flying school in Quebec), so that means I'll be doing my CPL/multi-IFR in the next few years.

However, since life is sometimes strange, I got handed a second option when I announced my current employer that I would be leaving in August. I'll spare you the details, but let's just say I'm well respected within my current industry (small world) and it DOES make business sense for them, mostly for contractual reasons, if this works out. But I was offered the option to work part/full time and arrange my schedule around flying times if I would do my training privately within the Montreal region. That also includes a generous "raise" to cover some training expenses and also a 2 year agreement to stay with them at least until I'm done and ready to look for a seat. The amount given to me would be around the cost of a CPL, split in 2 years (but taxed since it's salary). I do realize I'm quite lucky to get an offer like that, but also keep in mind I've been building my place in this industry for close to 10 years, that's not just luck, there's some good old hard work involved.

Now here's the way I see the situation now, and the questions I still have to find answers to. I'll be meeting some flying school owners in the next weeks to discuss some of those issues as well, but I think it's a good idea for me to throw this here as well, if only to raise new pertinent questions I didn't think about!

Some personal details:
- 30 years old
- No current debts, about 20k stashed and ready to use
- bilingual (french first, english second, but doesn't make much difference)
- Willing to move after training, no local attachments per se.

Good for CQFA :
- Paid by the queen

Bad for CQFA :
- Long (3 years total) and not that much flying (none in 1st year, PPL in 2nd and CPL/multi-IFR in 3rd, coming out with the usual 200 hrs)
- Very sheltered and rigid environment (good for young guys but I can organise my own life)
- Not much options for establishing contacts in the industry while you train
- Would eat up my savings for living expenses anyways since working aside is not really possible for 2 of the 3 years).

Good for private training:
- Much more flexible schedule
- Probably faster. That's what I need to establish. Is it realistic to get a CPL/multi-IFR in 2 years while working something like 30hr a week but flexible?
- Better chance of getting to know some people

Bad for private :
- Cost.
That's also a bit of a grey area since I hear many numbers, but is it realistic to budget 60k for Nill to CPL/multi-IFR? Also, how much of it is tax-deductible ? That will influence my budget A LOT, since most of that money will come straight from my not-negligible employment income.
- No life for 2 years, alternating between training and working. I can live with that.
- Not 100% involved in aviation. It seems that one of the good way to succeed in this hard industry is to focus all your attention on it, at least for some years. The part-time work gig would prevent me from going "all-in", at least for 2 years.

Now I also started to look at the iATPL courses but I don't think it's an option for me. It seems that those require full-time involvement for most of the training, so that would kill the deal for me.

My priorities are, in order:
- Getting the papers without going into debt (might be possible with both options if my numbers aren't too far).
- Getting it as fast as possible. I'm already 30, better use those future years to build up time instead.

I excluded some topics like the quality of instruction and the employment chances (for which there seems to be as many opinions as there are pilots) and things about life after the training's done. Believe me, I know what I'm getting into, I've been around the industry for long enough to know there's no easy ride (was an avionics tech for some years). But I'm at the point where I'll give it a good shot anyways, and see what happens.

Anyways, sorry for the long diatribe (and congrats if you made it this far!) but I'll take anything you guys have to say about this situation and consider it.

Thank you,

[nbinont]

In my view, it's best to stay at your current employer and train locally, especially if they have offered to make it worth your while financially.

That's almost what I did - full time work, part time flight school. CPL+IFR in about 3-4 years (though flight training came in whenever I had time). Biggest issue after solo will be access to planes at times that work for you (you inevitably end up wanting to fly evenings and weekends). Forming a partnership and purchasing a 150 or 152 together can solve that issue.

Do your ground school at a reputable flight school.

[Beefitarian]

Search topics here about college it's not what it used to be.

They are fine if you hope to be an airline pilot one day. They are a part of the well balanced breakfast to get you in that Pan Am captain's seat.

Or you could go find someone to teach you to fly really well until you get your CPL. Then some ratings. Go where you want with a rental plane once you get a PPL to build 200+ hours. The free hours at the college will be prescribed trips that will cease at your achieving CPL, you won't get any extra. Example if you wanted to get a float rating and fly 100 hours extra to meet insurance requirements for most operators that hire float pilots. Or fly night time pic to knock off the ATPL requirements.

College would be good but private should be more fun. In some ways private FTUs are better if you do the right things. It depends on why you want to fly, in what and where. Just watch out for the places that won't let you go out in crosswinds or want money up front.

Start on a nice taildragger for PPL, then you will be a better pilot than me. The 172s and Warrior IIs I flew are easier to fly, I don't have to use the foot rests unless there is a cross wind. nbinont miss spelled J-3 to purchase you can partner with a CPL and get free advice.

[PilotDAR]

My advice is to stay in your current position, and use the opportunity to fly more, and build your flying experience. But a simple taildragger, and fly the heck out of it. When you take your CPL/ME/IFR you will learn more quickly with more "simple" experience behind you. When you apply for a job with a wet ink CPL, those extra few hundred hours of PPL PIC will look good. Importantly, people you will meet along the way, as you fly lots as a PPL will become contacts in the industry. I have always been employed in aviation, I have never applied for a job. Every aviation job I have ever had has come as a result of friendships or contacts I made as a very active PPL then CPL.

[Barf_Bag]

Thanks for the input guys, much appreciated. I was also leaning toward the 2nd option now (working + private training), what I have to assess is the feasibility of it. It seems I wouldn't be the first one though, so that's looking good.

Really good point about buying a share. Considering I have a bit of money I can put up front, that might be a way to "invest" it properly. Quotes because I don't believe owning any private vehicle is a financial investment whatsoever, but in this case it could be when considering total $/hr a few years down the road).

However, I'll admit that it scares me a lot. I'm one to usually like to know what I'm doing, and it this case I wouldn't. I have some decent GA knowledge from having been around it for a while, but I know I could easily get ripped off on a deal like that. I know only enough to know that I don't know squat. I guess having someone with experience that you can trust is paramount when buying a share so early.

[mike123]

I would do option 2
You can budget $40K for Commercial MIFR (that's what I spent at my school).

P.S. I live in Montreal, just in case you would like info about specific schools.

[awitzke]

If you can set the time aside, you could finish your CPL/MIFR in less than a year. That would be completely full time though. Might consider that as an option. Take your $20k savings to live on and a loan for training. Every year earlier you finish school and get into the workforce is a year of seniority at mainline if that's what you want to do. Consider what 2 years of future earnings will be vs. taking 3 years to finish training.

Just an option.

[Barf_Bag]

If you can set the time aside, you could finish your CPL/MIFR in less than a year. That would be completely full time though. Might consider that as an option. Take your $20k savings to live on and a loan for training. Every year earlier you finish school and get into the workforce is a year of seniority at mainline if that's what you want to do. Consider what 2 years of future earnings will be vs. taking 3 years to finish training.

Just an option.

I don't think that would make any sense in my case though. You need to take into account that I would be making decent money all along if I do it part time in 2 years. Hell, probably more than I will make in the first 10-15 years of working in aviation!

I would also get out with huge debts, which is what I have the opportunity to avoid. Not having debts after training will leave me with much more flexibility.

At this point I'm pretty much set with doing it part-time with the option my employer is giving me, shooting for 2 years. Now I need to start figuring out the details.

[nbinont]

If you want to do option 2 in phases, I'd suggest:

Phase 1: Sign up for PPL ground school at your selected flight school. Start booking your first flights at your flight school (plan to fly flight school aircraft till you solo).

As you're doing that, you should be on the lookout for instructors wiling to freelance, AME's willing to to help you evaluate a plane in a partnership (or one to buy and start a partnership). You may even find some of these contacts around CYUL here on Avcanada willing to share their expertise and point you in the right direction.

Phase 2: Continue your PPL either at the flight school or in your own plane.
Phase 3: Ratings (Night, Multi, IFR)
Phase 4: CPL.

Train hard, but have fun doing it!

[Barf_Bag]

If you want to do option 2 in phases, I'd suggest:

Phase 1: Sign up for PPL ground school at your selected flight school. Start booking your first flights at your flight school (plan to fly flight school aircraft till you solo).

As you're doing that, you should be on the lookout for instructors wiling to freelance, AME's willing to to help you evaluate a plane in a partnership (or one to buy and start a partnership). You may even find some of these contacts around CYUL here on Avcanada willing to share their expertise and point you in the right direction.

Phase 2: Continue your PPL either at the flight school or in your own plane.
Phase 3: Ratings (Night, Multi, IFR)
Phase 4: CPL.

Train hard, but have fun doing it!

Yeah I like that. That would give me a few months to figure things out, meet people and see if partnership/ownership still makes sense. Thanks for the input.

[PropToFeather]

Sounds like you're going through a similar decision process to me about 2 years ago. For what it's worth, as someone who did an iATPL program, yeah, they are generally pretty rigidly structured, and, at least in the early phases, really full-time. Working anything more than 20-25 hours a week while at school is going to be pretty hard, especially if your work hours have to be during Monday-Friday (as just about every school that offers an iATPL will schedule your classes/flying during the weekdays). Also, those programs typically are designed to kick your ass in gear, and provide a decent amount of guidance.

If you don't need much guidance, and are pretty good at being a self-starter... there is not really much of a reason to go the iATPL route, IMO. You could get just about all the same pieces (PPL, CPL, IFR) on your own. In fact, I'd probably lean toward getting your PPL at a local FTU - you'd get experience in the Montreal airspace, which is fantastic for making you learn (if a bit intimidating for the first little while), while starting to make connections in the industry.

Personally, I'd say to stay away from shares if you're looking to get your training done as quickly as possible, just because the overhead of maintenance becomes not insignificant when you're flying several times a week on training flights. Trust me, there's nothing quite like the bliss of snagging a plane for a critical item, and then not having to do the maintenance run around... while still having a plane you can train on*

*that last one hinges on the fact that your FTU has more than one or two planes.

Finally, take a look at your time budget - if you can fly* at least 3-4 days a week, you're should have no problems with getting going. (*When I say fly, I mean, book flights for a time that you can either get off work for, or that do not conflict with your work schedule. As you'll quickly see, weather is a major reason for your flights getting cancelled as a PPL). If you can do 5-6 days, you're going to be on your way fairly fast! And, if you can get your PPL done before October, you'll be much better off when it comes to time spent on training.

PS: In regards to the whole "no social life" thing - yes, you can have a social life, but, if you're serious about flying, save most of it until you've got about 120-140 hours in the log book, and a PPL (and maybe a night rating) in your booklet. Good luck!

[Barf_Bag]

I would do option 2
You can budget $40K for Commercial MIFR (that's what I spent at my school).

P.S. I live in Montreal, just in case you would like info about specific schools.

Hey Mike,

I'm interested in hearing your opinion on some of the schools around here. I've sent you a PM but it's been stuck in the outbox for like 2 weeks now. Any other way I can reach out to you?

[jon]

Hello,
I am going to be faced with a very similar decision in the next few years. I'd be very interested in hearing how this played out for you and where it led you over the past seven years.

[broken_slinky]

Hello,
I am going to be faced with a very similar decision in the next few years. I'd be very interested in hearing how this played out for you and where it led you over the past seven years.

Last activity from Barf was back in 2017. Not likely you're going to get a response.