DEC

[GoHomeLeg]

Were there any successful interviews for Direct entry captain position at Sunwing? If so what's your experience level?

[safetyfirst123]

Considering that Sunwing just did an internal upgrade bid where the number of bypassed pilots were nearly double the number of successful candidates, and the company purposely made it all the way to the bottom of the seniority list while bypassing really experienced and good candidates, says a lot. I wouldn't count on getting a left seat at Sunwing unless you are a foreign pilot coming in as a temporary foreign worker due to a manufactured pilot shortage by management. The actions taken by this management team are truly shocking, but they know that they'll likely get away with it.

Point being, I wouldn't expect a Canadian to see a quick upgrade or getting hired as a DEC at Sunwing with what's going on right now, but it's not due to lack of work.

[GoHomeLeg]

Well it sounds like some junior pilots did get a quick upgrade if the award reached the bottom.

Im curious to know how many got bypassed. Getting bypassed isn't something new at WG considering it a seniority/matrix/merit system.

I wonder if WG is trying to maximize the amount of TUI and Smartwings wet leases next winter in order to maximize our wet lease deployment to Europe next summer 2023 in return.

I also wonder how many pilot bid for upgrade only if they could stay in their current base and had no second, third, or fourth pick.

[fruz]

Over 40 were bypassed roughly.

Just because the company says there will be deployments next year doesn’t mean that’s the case. This management barely knows whats coming the following month, let alone next year.

[safetyfirst123]

Giving excuses for a bunch of qualified pilots getting bypassed in order to get temporary foreign pilots to come in as captains and avoiding paying competitive wages is unacceptable. This should be unacceptable to everybody, as it goes way above and beyond reciprocal agreements. I could understand if a small handful of applicants were bypassed for legitimate reasons, but 40 ish bypassed for 20 positions is shameful.

[fruz]

100 percent agree. Shameful indeed.

[Free Woodpecker]

Giving excuses for a bunch of qualified pilots getting bypassed in order to get temporary foreign pilots to come in as captains and avoiding paying competitive wages is unacceptable. This should be unacceptable to everybody, as it goes way above and beyond reciprocal agreements. I could understand if a small handful of applicants were bypassed for legitimate reasons, but 40 ish bypassed for 20 positions is shameful.

If the company management legitimately believes that 40 plus qualified crew were to be bypassed, than this potentially points directly to more training dept issues. Again. Curious, was the bypass predominantly related to members that stayed on extended furlough and had difficulty requalifying?

[FL030]

If we can get all airline pilots across Canada at ALPA maybe we can actually put a stop to this kind of BS.

[fruz]

Giving excuses for a bunch of qualified pilots getting bypassed in order to get temporary foreign pilots to come in as captains and avoiding paying competitive wages is unacceptable. This should be unacceptable to everybody, as it goes way above and beyond reciprocal agreements. I could understand if a small handful of applicants were bypassed for legitimate reasons, but 40 ish bypassed for 20 positions is shameful.

If the company management legitimately believes that 40 plus qualified crew were to be bypassed, than this potentially points directly to more training dept issues. Again. Curious, was the bypass predominantly related to members that stayed on extended furlough and had difficulty requalifying?

The company didn’t provide any of them with a reason other than a generic copy and paste letter that all of them received. This letter provided nothing specific to their individual records. Some of them had exemplary qualifications and excellent training records to be clear. This isn’t a training department issue. The bypass was not predominant with those who returned late either. It went from senior FOs to the bottom of the list. Take a guess why….TFWs..

We’ll lose these people now to other carriers because they’ve been slighted by this management without justification.

It’s not hard to figure out what they’re doing.

[rudder]

Giving excuses for a bunch of qualified pilots getting bypassed in order to get temporary foreign pilots to come in as captains and avoiding paying competitive wages is unacceptable. This should be unacceptable to everybody, as it goes way above and beyond reciprocal agreements. I could understand if a small handful of applicants were bypassed for legitimate reasons, but 40 ish bypassed for 20 positions is shameful.

If the company management legitimately believes that 40 plus qualified crew were to be bypassed, than this potentially points directly to more training dept issues. Again. Curious, was the bypass predominantly related to members that stayed on extended furlough and had difficulty requalifying?

The company didn’t provide any of them with a reason other than a generic copy and paste letter that all of them received. This letter provided nothing specific to their individual records. Some of them had exemplary qualifications and excellent training records to be clear. This isn’t a training department issue. The bypass was not predominant with those who returned late either. It went from senior FOs to the bottom of the list. Take a guess why….TFWs..

We’ll lose these people now to other carriers because they’ve been slighted by this management without justification.

It’s not hard to figure out what they’re doing.

Is there not a collective agreement in force at Sunwing? Oh, that’s right. The pilots are represented by the auto union.

[ads-b]

lol we did inquire about joining ALPA when we joined unifor, which I’m sure you know rudder. ALPA usa wanted nothing to do with us. I believe AT wanted nothing to do with us as well. We were to busy arguing over TFW’s. But on the bright side I have seniority at the Oshawa GM plant if I’m ever out of work…

A really negative thing about the upgrade bid, it was released then the company gave the FCM less then 24 hours to grieve it. It won’t matter much now. Annoying experienced crews in this job market will bite any company looking to expand.

Just like negotiating a CBA reducing pay and working conditions while everyone else is doing the opposite.

[goingmissed]

Giving excuses for a bunch of qualified pilots getting bypassed in order to get temporary foreign pilots to come in as captains and avoiding paying competitive wages is unacceptable. This should be unacceptable to everybody, as it goes way above and beyond reciprocal agreements. I could understand if a small handful of applicants were bypassed for legitimate reasons, but 40 ish bypassed for 20 positions is shameful.

If the company management legitimately believes that 40 plus qualified crew were to be bypassed, than this potentially points directly to more training dept issues. Again. Curious, was the bypass predominantly related to members that stayed on extended furlough and had difficulty requalifying?

I would be afraid to fly on an airline that believes that a third of it's first officers are unable to perform the same duties from the left seat.

[Timetoflyagain]

lol we did inquire about joining ALPA when we joined unifor, which I’m sure you know rudder. ALPA usa wanted nothing to do with us. I believe AT wanted nothing to do with us as well. We were to busy arguing over TFW’s. But on the bright side I have seniority at the Oshawa GM plant if I’m ever out of work…

A really negative thing about the upgrade bid, it was released then the company gave the FCM less then 24 hours to grieve it. It won’t matter much now. Annoying experienced crews in this job market will bite any company looking to expand.

Just like negotiating a CBA reducing pay and working conditions while everyone else is doing the opposite.

…yah..don’t forget that “free” case of 100 covid tests too! More perks of being unionized!

[chaster]

Pilots In Canada need to put their Pants on. If your company is bypassing Qualified Drivers In favour of foreign Pilots for upgrades there is an easy fix.SET THE PARK BRAKE) STAND AS ONE Legal or not! It would be over in 48 hours!!

[Bede]

Pilots In Canada need to put their Pants on. If your company is bypassing Qualified Drivers In favour of foreign Pilots for upgrades there is an easy fix.SET THE PARK BRAKE) STAND AS ONE Legal or not! It would be over in 48 hours!!

Wouldn’t filing a grievance work? (And it wouldn’t expose your union to liability.)

[rudder]

Pilots In Canada need to put their Pants on. If your company is bypassing Qualified Drivers In favour of foreign Pilots for upgrades there is an easy fix.SET THE PARK BRAKE) STAND AS ONE Legal or not! It would be over in 48 hours!!

Wouldn’t filing a grievance work? (And it wouldn’t expose your union to liability.)

Have the WJ/Swoop (WJA MEC) representatives and SWG (Unifor) representatives started a dialogue?

There is nothing preventing a sharing of resources or expertise. Sure, the corporate transaction could still eventually be withdrawn, but planning should still happen based on contingencies.

Pilots working together is always the management worst nightmare. They rely on pilot competition to drive wedges and implement unfavourable outcomes (from a pilot labour perspective).

ONEX will not be looking out for pilots. So pilots will need to stop being reactive and become proactive.

[ant_321]

Pilots In Canada need to put their Pants on. If your company is bypassing Qualified Drivers In favour of foreign Pilots for upgrades there is an easy fix.SET THE PARK BRAKE) STAND AS ONE Legal or not! It would be over in 48 hours!!

Wouldn’t filing a grievance work? (And it wouldn’t expose your union to liability.)

Have the WJ/Swoop (WJA MEC) representatives and SWG (Unifor) representatives started a dialogue?

There is nothing preventing a sharing of resources or expertise. Sure, the corporate transaction could still eventually be withdrawn, but planning should still happen based on contingencies.

Pilots working together is always the management worst nightmare. They rely on pilot competition to drive wedges and implement unfavourable outcomes (from a pilot labour perspective).

ONEX will not be looking out for pilots. So pilots will need to stop being reactive and become proactive.

Yes. They have been talking for months. Both unions have a “merger committee” that have been working together to prepare for the possibility of a merger.

[JHR]

https://apple.news/AB0_6osYATqC2D-dv5m3z6Q

[co-joe]

Out of curiosity, is Sunwing still leaning on this?

Sunwing Pilots Collective Agreement No. 3
24
6.5 Minimum Upgrade Qualifications
6.5.1 To qualify for initial upgrade training to Captain on type, a FCM should meet the following
minimums:
a) A current Airline Transport Pilot License, AND
b) 5,000 hours Total Flight Time, AND
c) 2,000 hours Total Flight Time on Jets over 100,000 lb., OR 1,000 hours PIC Flight Time
on Jets over 100,000 lb.
NOTE: For each year on type with the Company, a FCM may reduce his total flight time
requirements by five hundred hours. The total reduction will not exceed one thousand
hours

It's an archaic rule, but if it's still in the CBA it gives the company an out to hire whomever they want. F8 had the same rule since our Unifor CBA was basically a carbon copy of theirs, but the company decided that with a better training program they could lower the requirements significantly.

[ant_321]

Out of curiosity, is Sunwing still leaning on this?

Sunwing Pilots Collective Agreement No. 3
24
6.5 Minimum Upgrade Qualifications
6.5.1 To qualify for initial upgrade training to Captain on type, a FCM should meet the following
minimums:
a) A current Airline Transport Pilot License, AND
b) 5,000 hours Total Flight Time, AND
c) 2,000 hours Total Flight Time on Jets over 100,000 lb., OR 1,000 hours PIC Flight Time
on Jets over 100,000 lb.
NOTE: For each year on type with the Company, a FCM may reduce his total flight time
requirements by five hundred hours. The total reduction will not exceed one thousand
hours

It's an archaic rule, but if it's still in the CBA it gives the company an out to hire whomever they want. F8 had the same rule since our Unifor CBA was basically a carbon copy of theirs, but the company decided that with a better training program they could lower the requirements significantly.

Yes it’s still in place. If you spend a couple years as an FO you can upgrade with 4000TT. That seems pretty reasonable to me. Most people aren’t even close to being ready to be a captain with that little time.