Why aren't Canadian pilots going on strike?

[EPR]

From 10 years ago during collective bargaining. https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/201 ... ining.html

[goingmissed]

I took home $1168 on my last paycheck. That is standard pay and not lowered in any way (other than taxes). I get paid twice a month.

Did you know the rate when you took the job ? If you knew the rate it paid, and you accepted the offer, then by definition you are not underpaid.

I strongly disagree with your opinion and your outlook. It seems that you are well paid and assume that you made the right choice and that everyone else has the exact same opportunities as you.

I knew the salary going in but I did not know that it would take five years to upgrade versus the two I was told. I did not know that inflation would bring the cost of living up by 15-20% while my salary would follow with a 4% bump in the same period. I moved up from my previous position, but that does not make this position the be all and end all.

[pitottubey]

I completely agree with goingmissed. Just because you accept a job offer doesn't mean you're not underpaid. And to reverse the logic, the only people who are underpaid didn't accept the job offer or the rate?? Makes no sense.

Definition: "People who are underpaid are not paid enough money for the job that they do."

And my 2cents frequently in life accepting that underpaying job pays off in the long run because it is better work experience. An unpaid internship can be an investment, whereas cleaning toilets for 25 bucks an hour wont get you far in the long run.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

I completely agree with goingmissed. Just because you accept a job offer doesn't mean you're not underpaid. And to reverse the logic, the only people who are underpaid didn't accept the job offer or the rate?? Makes no sense.

Definition: "People who are underpaid are not paid enough money for the job that they do."

And my 2cents frequently in life accepting that underpaying job pays off in the long run because it is better work experience. An unpaid internship can be an investment, whereas cleaning toilets for 25 bucks an hour wont get you far in the long run.

Something has to change across the board, wages in Canada flying racket have been stagnant (mostly) since the late 80s

[pitottubey]

I completely agree with goingmissed. Just because you accept a job offer doesn't mean you're not underpaid. And to reverse the logic, the only people who are underpaid didn't accept the job offer or the rate?? Makes no sense.

Definition: "People who are underpaid are not paid enough money for the job that they do."

And my 2cents frequently in life accepting that underpaying job pays off in the long run because it is better work experience. An unpaid internship can be an investment, whereas cleaning toilets for 25 bucks an hour wont get you far in the long run.

Something has to change across the board, wages in Canada flying racket have been stagnant (mostly) since the late 80s

I completely agree. Wages NEED to go up for our pilots and so they should. Canadians should strike, or grow a backbone, or idk what! Corporate will try anything else before raising wages to fix problems I'm sure.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

I completely agree with goingmissed. Just because you accept a job offer doesn't mean you're not underpaid. And to reverse the logic, the only people who are underpaid didn't accept the job offer or the rate?? Makes no sense.

Definition: "People who are underpaid are not paid enough money for the job that they do."

And my 2cents frequently in life accepting that underpaying job pays off in the long run because it is better work experience. An unpaid internship can be an investment, whereas cleaning toilets for 25 bucks an hour wont get you far in the long run.

Something has to change across the board, wages in Canada flying racket have been stagnant (mostly) since the late 80s

I completely agree. Wages NEED to go up for our pilots and so they should. Canadians should strike, or grow a backbone, or idk what! Corporate will try anything else before raising wages to fix problems I'm sure.

I wish it was as simple as that, I work pretty close to owners in Canada and I can assure you there’s no urgency to adjust wages. Aviation in Canada has always been an employers market, in the decades I’ve been in it I haven’t seen when it wasn’t. Even if everyone pulled blue flu cross Canada, there would be help pulled in internationally to scab in, the way our country is, it’s a very easy process.
As a group we’ve always been too disorganized and largely too weak to fight back. Individually, I among others in past years, have fought tooth and nail for change, I’ve won some and I’ve lost most.

The only way to change things in Canada for this industry is for massive changes in legislation to enforce correction to all the valid problems brought up in this forum. That will never happen.
I work mostly in the USA now, as do many of my colleagues, there’s a reason for that.

[702pipeliner]

Something has to change across the board, wages in Canada flying racket have been stagnant (mostly) since the late 80s

I completely agree. Wages NEED to go up for our pilots and so they should. Canadians should strike, or grow a backbone, or idk what! Corporate will try anything else before raising wages to fix problems I'm sure.

I wish it was as simple as that, I work pretty close to owners in Canada and I can assure you there’s no urgency to adjust wages. Aviation in Canada has always been an employers market, in the decades I’ve been in it I haven’t seen when it wasn’t. Even if everyone pulled blue flu cross Canada, there would be help pulled in internationally to scab in, the way our country is, it’s a very easy process.
As a group we’ve always been too disorganized and largely too weak to fight back. Individually, I among others in past years, have fought tooth and nail for change, I’ve won some and I’ve lost most.

The only way to change things in Canada for this industry is for massive changes in legislation to enforce correction to all the valid problems brought up in this forum. That will never happen.
I work mostly in the USA now, as do many of my colleagues, there’s a reason for that.

+1 to this.

Unfortunately legislation won't change.

[unionism101]

From 10 years ago during collective bargaining. https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/201 ... ining.html

More modern link:

https://ehlaw.ca/supreme-court-constitu ... to-strike/

Pilots striking next time will be a different ballgame. The government has stayed out of labour action as of late

In what is being hailed as a “game-changer” in Canadian labour relations, a majority of the Supreme Court of Canada held that the right to strike is constitutionally protected under the freedom of association in s. 2(d) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Here’s something the younger generation should look up “tall poppy syndrome”. Canada is particularly bad for it, google it and think about where you are in this industry.

[goingmissed]

Here’s something the younger generation should look up “tall poppy syndrome”. Canada is particularly bad for it, google it and think about where you are in this industry.

Don't flatter yourself. We're not complaining about other people's success... we're complaining that we are professionals getting paid similar salaries to unskilled labour.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Here’s something the younger generation should look up “tall poppy syndrome”. Canada is particularly bad for it, google it and think about where you are in this industry.

Don't flatter yourself. We're not complaining about other people's success... we're complaining that we are professionals getting paid similar salaries to unskilled labour.

You’re not interpreting that post correctly, nor am I flattering myself. And I agree the industry grossly underpays its professionals.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

-Canadas overall culture of apathy/ subservience

Spot on, more then anything at least how I see it. Say Air Canada or Westjet Pilots go on a real nasty strike (as they should). The media/public would portray it as a bunch of people from the 1% who want even more money. I can already see talking points. After all a year 1 captain at AC NB makes 200k a year, why should they get more? There is a large group of people in this country who think if you make more than 150k a year your part of the 1% which statistically speaking your not from an income standpoint. This is what makes gains for pilots so hard in this country.

I think if there were to be a strike among the larger air carriers in Canada the facts and wages should be published in the media, with internet and smartphones more available than ever it’s the best time to get this out. Captain sully tried in 2010 to encode change but things were much different back then.
I don’t think a 777 captain at air Canada making less than a heavy duty mechanic at suncor is deemed appropriate let alone fair. Nor a capped pay-scale ACA’d AME at west jet making less than a third year heavy duty apprentice ffs. This wage equity dilemma has plagued the industry for almost 40 years in Canada.

[ant_321]

-Canadas overall culture of apathy/ subservience

Spot on, more then anything at least how I see it. Say Air Canada or Westjet Pilots go on a real nasty strike (as they should). The media/public would portray it as a bunch of people from the 1% who want even more money. I can already see talking points. After all a year 1 captain at AC NB makes 200k a year, why should they get more? There is a large group of people in this country who think if you make more than 150k a year your part of the 1% which statistically speaking your not from an income standpoint. This is what makes gains for pilots so hard in this country.

I think if there were to be a strike among the larger air carriers in Canada the facts and wages should be published in the media, with internet and smartphones more available than ever it’s the best time to get this out. Captain sully tried in 2010 to encode change but things were much different back then.
I don’t think a 777 captain at air Canada making less than a heavy duty mechanic at suncor is deemed appropriate let alone fair. Nor a capped pay-scale ACA’d AME at west jet making less than a third year heavy duty apprentice ffs. This wage equity dilemma has plagued the industry for almost 40 years in Canada.

You have much more faith in the media than I do. I can see the headlines now, “Air Canada pilots strike over wages”. With the first line reading, “Air Canada pilots make between $60-300/ hour.” While leaving out how the rate is dished out. The average Joe would multiply by 40 hrs per week and think that the starting pay is $120k plus.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Spot on, more then anything at least how I see it. Say Air Canada or Westjet Pilots go on a real nasty strike (as they should). The media/public would portray it as a bunch of people from the 1% who want even more money. I can already see talking points. After all a year 1 captain at AC NB makes 200k a year, why should they get more? There is a large group of people in this country who think if you make more than 150k a year your part of the 1% which statistically speaking your not from an income standpoint. This is what makes gains for pilots so hard in this country.

I think if there were to be a strike among the larger air carriers in Canada the facts and wages should be published in the media, with internet and smartphones more available than ever it’s the best time to get this out. Captain sully tried in 2010 to encode change but things were much different back then.
I don’t think a 777 captain at air Canada making less than a heavy duty mechanic at suncor is deemed appropriate let alone fair. Nor a capped pay-scale ACA’d AME at west jet making less than a third year heavy duty apprentice ffs. This wage equity dilemma has plagued the industry for almost 40 years in Canada.

You have much more faith in the media than I do. I can see the headlines now, “Air Canada pilots strike over wages”. With the first line reading, “Air Canada pilots make between $60-300/ hour.” While leaving out how the rate is dished out. The average Joe would multiply by 40 hrs per week and think that the starting pay is $120k plus.

That is true, the entire truth needs to be out, I have very little faith in corporate media, as facts are redacted and misrepresented on the regular. A full picture representation of what’s involved in careers right from initial training costs till retirement needs to be displayed. Or perhaps just publicize job ads for FO’s on dash 8’s making $20/hr on salary

[Bingo Fuel]

From 10 years ago during collective bargaining. https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/201 ... ining.html

More modern link:

https://ehlaw.ca/supreme-court-constitu ... to-strike/

Pilots striking next time will be a different ballgame. The government has stayed out of labour action as of late

In what is being hailed as a “game-changer” in Canadian labour relations, a majority of the Supreme Court of Canada held that the right to strike is constitutionally protected under the freedom of association in s. 2(d) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms

Most important point in this thread so far, in my opinion.

Definitely should be part of the challenge against the Protecting Air Services Act.

Is the legislation still in force today?

[DanWEC]

Bill C-62 was assented into law by the Liberals in 2017. This repealed the anti-union laws tabled by the Conservatives in 2012 by Bill C-4. The most relevant part to us being removal of the ability for the gov't to assign essential service to whomever they want in order to prevent action. This is concrete and has been done.

Now, I'm not a lawyer, but it seems the Protection of Air Services Act, which was seperate, is still in force, (Listed on laws.gc) and names only Air Canada specifically.

Couldn't this be challenged as it now seems all other airlines could strike except for Air Canada? Or from a different angle, does it have any teeth based on AC's essential service designation given under a repealed law?
Union and labour lawyers must have an answer, I'd be curious to know.