Cessna 172M Value

[photofly]

1956 CESSNA 172 SKYHAWK
Piston Single Aircraft
Price:USD $67,000

1976 CESSNA 172M SKYHAWK
Piston Single Aircraft
Price:USD $184,900

1976 CESSNA 172M SKYHAWK
Piston Single Aircraft
Price:USD $65,663

1977 CESSNA 172N SKYHAWK
Piston Single Aircraft
Price:USD $109,950

1977 CESSNA 172N SKYHAWK
Piston Single Aircraft
Price:USD $115,000

1977 CESSNA 172N SKYHAWK
Piston Single Aircraft
Price:USD $128,900

Its hard to believe that if the luxury vehicle tax goes into place as is being discussed 4 of those 6 aircraft will be 'luxury' vehicles due to the $100,000 limit.

None of them will be luxury vehicles; they're all well outside the age limit, and already imported into Canada.

[dash8dave]

Thanks for pointing my error in not understanding this tax. See that now in the definition of subject aircraft:
Definition of subject aircraft
Under subsection 2(1), subject aircraft means an aircraft that is an aeroplane, glider or helicopter with a date of manufacture after 2018 that meets any of the following conditions:

it is equipped only with one or more pilot seats and cannot have any other seating configuration
it is equipped only with one or more pilot seats, or is not equipped with any seats, and cannot have a seating configuration of 40 seats or greater (excluding pilot seats)
it is equipped with one or more pilot seats and one or more passenger seats and has a seating configuration of 39 seats or fewer (excluding pilot seats)
An aircraft that has already been registered with a government before September 2022Footnote 1 is excluded from this definition, provided that the user of the aircraft also takes possession of the aircraft before this date. An aircraft that is designed and equipped for military activities and an aircraft that is equipped solely for carrying goods are also excluded. For greater certainty, a subject vehicle is also excluded from the definition of subject aircraft.

[CpnCrunch]

114,000USD

Ouch, that's a lot of money for what you listed. But if that's the Vref price then that's probably what you'll end up paying. You're competing with big flights schools.

If I was looking for a plane today I'd probably look more closely at RVs.

[digits_]

So what's the Vref value for this particular airplane?

114,000USD

That's insane. That's over 145k CAD. No private Canadian buyer is paying that for a C172 M model with VFR only instruments, clapped out interior and engine past TBO (and likely 30+ years old?). Maybe a flight school who needs a 172 yesterday might be willing to pay for that (upcoming contract, other plane just crashed, etc)

If that's the budget you are considering, a 172 would be the last thing I would buy.

If you want adrenaline, buy a Pitts for 50k
If you want to travel VFR, buy a vfr Mooney for 50k
If you want to travel IFR, but an IFR Mooney or Commander for 100k
If you want to travel and feel like an airline pilot, buy an IFR equipped twin for 100k
If you want to feel like a fighter pilot, buy an old decrepit fighter jet for 80k

But for the love of god, don't waste your money on a 145k VFR 172..... Or do, it's your money

All above prices in CAD.

[Fishizl]

So what's the Vref value for this particular airplane?

114,000USD

That's insane. That's over 145k CAD. No private Canadian buyer is paying that for a C172 M model with VFR only instruments, clapped out interior and engine past TBO (and likely 30+ years old?). Maybe a flight school who needs a 172 yesterday might be willing to pay for that (upcoming contract, other plane just crashed, etc)

If that's the budget you are considering, a 172 would be the last thing I would buy.

If you want adrenaline, buy a Pitts for 50k
If you want to travel VFR, buy a vfr Mooney for 50k
If you want to travel IFR, but an IFR Mooney or Commander for 100k
If you want to travel and feel like an airline pilot, buy an IFR equipped twin for 100k
If you want to feel like a fighter pilot, buy an old decrepit fighter jet for 80k

But for the love of god, don't waste your money on a 145k VFR 172..... Or do, it's your money

All above prices in CAD.

You're right again, they're paying much more to have one with a new engine, interior and avionics.
I'm not looking for advice on if I should or should not buy a 172, or other aircraft for that matter.

[photofly]

I'm not looking for advice on if I should or should not buy a 172, or other aircraft for that matter.

So... .what are you looking for advice on?

[Fishizl]

I'm not looking for advice on if I should or should not buy a 172, or other aircraft for that matter.

So... .what are you looking for advice on?

Pricing on a 172M as initially described. the vref is the guide for sure, but looking to understand how closely aircraft actually sell vs vref pricing and what the market fluctuations are in place today. I'm following the market fairly close and just looking for opinions backed by experience.

[rookiepilot]

You're right again, they're paying much more to have one with a new engine, interior and avionics.

Just wow.

[Fishizl]

You're right again, they're paying much more to have one with a new engine, interior and avionics.

Just wow.

I know eh, check these ones out...not cheap at all
https://www.aircraftcanada.com/inventor ... 42003&lo=3
https://www.aircraftcanada.com/inventor ... 42003&lo=3
https://www.aircraftcanada.com/inventor ... 42003&lo=3

[digits_]

I'm not looking for advice on if I should or should not buy a 172, or other aircraft for that matter.

So... .what are you looking for advice on?

Pricing on a 172M as initially described. the vref is the guide for sure, but looking to understand how closely aircraft actually sell vs vref pricing. I like your comments around your 'private bet'...that's the type of info i'm looking for.

Are you perhaps planning on selling your plane and trying to get some info posing as a buyer?

[Fishizl]

So... .what are you looking for advice on?

Pricing on a 172M as initially described. the vref is the guide for sure, but looking to understand how closely aircraft actually sell vs vref pricing. I like your comments around your 'private bet'...that's the type of info i'm looking for.

Are you perhaps planning on selling your plane and trying to get some info posing as a buyer?

uh oh, you got me dead to rights..

[CpnCrunch]

When I was buying my 172 2 years ago I spent about a year looking at various 172s and 182s before I found my plane, and the Vref price is a pretty good guide. Anything in good condition priced close to Vref will sell quickly. The whole point of Vref is that it is the actual selling price for planes that have sold. So if you're selling your plane, price it close to Vref. If you're buying, use Vref as a guide to make an offer. And if you are selling, do it quickly before 172 prices drop from incredibly insane to just moderately insane.

[digits_]

When I was buying my 172 2 years ago I spent about a year looking at various 172s and 182s before I found my plane, and the Vref price is a pretty good guide. Anything in good condition priced close to Vref will sell quickly. The whole point of Vref is that it is the actual selling price for planes that have sold. So if you're selling your plane, price it close to Vref. If you're buying, use Vref as a guide to make an offer. And if you are selling, do it quickly before 172 prices drop from incredibly insane to just moderately insane.

How does info get into Vref? Isn't that a broker maintained system? Meaning that private sales on small planes could save about 7% right there.

[CpnCrunch]

How does info get into Vref? Isn't that a broker maintained system? Meaning that private sales on small planes could save about 7% right there.

Yes, they probably do come from brokers. If you purchase from a broker, the seller pays the fee and the broker posts the aircraft at what they think it will sell for. You will likely pay a bit more on average buying from a broker, but I would say in general the aircraft are in better condition.

[Fishizl]

When I was buying my 172 2 years ago I spent about a year looking at various 172s and 182s before I found my plane, and the Vref price is a pretty good guide. Anything in good condition priced close to Vref will sell quickly. The whole point of Vref is that it is the actual selling price for planes that have sold. So if you're selling your plane, price it close to Vref. If you're buying, use Vref as a guide to make an offer. And if you are selling, do it quickly before 172 prices drop from incredibly insane to just moderately insane.

Thanks for that. Good to know. I'm well under vref then which is a good thing. Anticipating how much they decline (if they do) in price is the gamble I suppose. Thanks for the input CpnCrunch/PilotDAR.

[PilotDAR]

But for the love of god, don't waste your money on a 145k VFR 172.....

Or, buy what is right for you!

On behalf of a foreign friend, 11 years ago, I bought an original 182Q. Other than maintenance, nothing done to it since it left the factory. My friend specified the desired modifications. It took four years to complete the plane the way he wanted it (my golly he was patient!) 27 STC's. Part of the delay was two years waiting for an SMA diesel engine, which ultimately never came, so carburetted 550. By the time it was done, he had spent over $900,000 on it. 'Sounds like a lot, eh? Well, what would a brand new G1000 182 on amphibs cost? not far from that... But the best thing was we knew every inch of that plane, and it was near perfect! It has gone through annual inspections ever since, and the only unexpected thing it needed replaced was a nosewheel bearing one year. The most recent annual had no defects, and that's after 600 hours since the rebuild.

If an older plane has had a lot done to it, it may be worth the price - still less than half a brand new one...

Commander (nice plane), twin, or beater jet for $100k yes, then consider what it's going to cost to keep it airworthy, and how long you'll be waiting for parts! 172 parts are rarely a problem!

[Fishizl]

But for the love of god, don't waste your money on a 145k VFR 172.....

Or, buy what is right for you!

On behalf of a foreign friend, 11 years ago, I bought an original 182Q. Other than maintenance, nothing done to it since it left the factory. My friend specified the desired modifications. It took four years to complete the plane the way he wanted it (my golly he was patient!) 27 STC's. Part of the delay was two years waiting for an SMA diesel engine, which ultimately never came, so carburetted 550. By the time it was done, he had spent over $900,000 on it. 'Sounds like a lot, eh? Well, what would a brand new G1000 182 on amphibs cost? not far from that... But the best thing was we knew every inch of that plane, and it was near perfect! It has gone through annual inspections ever since, and the only unexpected thing it needed replaced was a nosewheel bearing one year. The most recent annual had no defects, and that's after 600 hours since the rebuild.

If an older plane has had a lot done to it, it may be worth the price - still less than half a brand new one...

Commander (nice plane), twin, or beater jet for $100k yes, then consider what it's going to cost to keep it airworthy, and how long you'll be waiting for parts! 172 parts are rarely a problem!

Was going to comment on that. a new 172 is 400KUSD so if you have a nice straight, low time 172, over time it should be an ok investment, and a cheap flyer.

[digits_]

But for the love of god, don't waste your money on a 145k VFR 172.....

Or, buy what is right for you!

That's the thing though, I don't get how a 145k c172 with vfr instruments, clapped out interior and engine past TBO can be right for *any* private buyer.

Literally every possible mission profile I can come up with has significantly cheaper alternatives.


So I'm intrigued.

[photofly]

Perhaps new pilots think "that's what I learned on, that's the only thing I want to (or can) fly." Which would be a dismaying lack of ambition. But, perhaps that's true.

[Squaretail]

The price is inflated on 172s now because the flight schools and survey outfits are trying to scrounge up every last one of them to press into service. Even at 145K, its still cheaper than any trainer made in the 2000's.