All you underpaid airline pilots...

[DanWEC]

I'm applying. Even though it's a ULCC, the pay outside of first year is higher than the highest paying airline in Canada. It might not be for everyone, but it's great for a guy like me that only wants to give 15-20 years tops and would rather have far more money to work with up front rather than maybe only the last few years.

[rookiepilot]

Why don’t some of you guys complain to your MP’s about TFW’s re low wages, instead of complaining here (about small businesses) who aren't ever the price setters, for fares or wages? Small businesses just follow. They don’t set the market. If they pay too much, can’t raise fares — those are set by Humpty and Dumpty.

You all know this is orchestrated by the government — temporary workers— and the big guys as policy to suppress inflation — right?

You’re getting screwed. Stop voting for those who are screwing you.

Vote. Write letters. Call your MP. March.

[JHR]

March. Then get arrested and have your bank account frozen...

[kgb531]

Charter 6 rights apply to interprovincial travel for living and work. As to leaving or returning to Canada, it is only that. Working outside of Canada does not involve any charter rights, only the right to return to the country.

What I've heard (Again... only heard) is that there is already a pushback being planned on the Canadian side. By whom? Not sure, but my guess is ATAC, in turn lobbying the Canadian Ministry of Labour, and/or Transport.

Interesting...I think that it would have to be done on the quiet, otherwise, don't 'they' open themselves up to a Charter challenge on Freedom of Movement (section 6 of the Canadian Charter of Rights)?

[BE02 Driver]

They'll just petition US/CAN labour to seal the gate while addressing their current short term 'shortages' with immigrant pilots, exactly what their petitioning against. Then likely start hiring from South Asia (as the Federal government seems to have a preference for immigrants from that region).

Already happening. Now, this is heresy only from the people I've been working with, but there is currently activity in the US around expanding the E-3 Visa program to a plethora of countries including Canada. Currently it's only Australia, with India pending. What I've heard (Again... only heard) is that there is already a pushback being planned on the Canadian side. By whom? Not sure, but my guess is ATAC, in turn lobbying the Canadian Ministry of Labour, and/or Transport.

ALPA is actively opposing the E-3 program for pilots, and have had some success.

[schnitzel2k3]

They'll just petition US/CAN labour to seal the gate while addressing their current short term 'shortages' with immigrant pilots, exactly what their petitioning against. Then likely start hiring from South Asia (as the Federal government seems to have a preference for immigrants from that region).

Already happening. Now, this is heresy only from the people I've been working with, but there is currently activity in the US around expanding the E-3 Visa program to a plethora of countries including Canada. Currently it's only Australia, with India pending. What I've heard (Again... only heard) is that there is already a pushback being planned on the Canadian side. By whom? Not sure, but my guess is ATAC, in turn lobbying the Canadian Ministry of Labour, and/or Transport.

ALPA is actively opposing the E-3 program for pilots, and have had some success.

They've done a great job in the U.S at raising working conditions at the cost of not having nearly enough crew to meet normal staffing levels during a oeriod of inflated growth.

At some point you gotta realize you squeezed the fruit for all she's got, and move on.

[BE02 Driver]

Already happening. Now, this is heresy only from the people I've been working with, but there is currently activity in the US around expanding the E-3 Visa program to a plethora of countries including Canada. Currently it's only Australia, with India pending. What I've heard (Again... only heard) is that there is already a pushback being planned on the Canadian side. By whom? Not sure, but my guess is ATAC, in turn lobbying the Canadian Ministry of Labour, and/or Transport.

ALPA is actively opposing the E-3 program for pilots, and have had some success.

They've done a great job in the U.S at raising working conditions at the cost of not having nearly enough crew to meet normal staffing levels during a oeriod of inflated growth.

At some point you gotta realize you squeezed the fruit for all she's got, and move on.

I don't think ALPA will take their foot of the pedal, regardless of the quality of the argument. The ad has been taken down as well.

[schnitzel2k3]

ALPA is actively opposing the E-3 program for pilots, and have had some success.

They've done a great job in the U.S at raising working conditions at the cost of not having nearly enough crew to meet normal staffing levels during a oeriod of inflated growth.

At some point you gotta realize you squeezed the fruit for all she's got, and move on.

I don't think ALPA will take their foot of the pedal, regardless of the quality of the argument. The ad has been taken down as well.

Agreed, and yeah, a buddy and I were laughing about the ad being taken down. Likely got a few groundschools of flat pay AC guys with fresh 320 ratings applying and decided to close up shop knowing how devastating the current AC contract is.

I see it as a good sign that it was posted at all to begin with, like smoke in fresh tinder, the ember is burning as operators begin exploring their options.

While it may take time, I believe this will become the normal down there, as long as Canadian pilots don't go selling themselves short, scabbing and ruining the progress of US unions. Our market thankfully would barely make a supply dent.

[DanWEC]

Which ad? This is very much still here....

https://pilotsdb.brookfieldav.com/job/0 ... work-in-US

[BE02 Driver]

Which ad? This is very much still here....

https://pilotsdb.brookfieldav.com/job/0 ... work-in-US

Thanks,

OP link is not working.

Lots of Canadians down here flying already. People have found their own way. This will expedite an exodus for those who aren't otherwise able to obtain work authorization.

[goingmissed]

This thread has fizzled, but I'd still rather see it on top than people complaining about politics that are no longer related to our industry.

[Ash Ketchum]

I guess they require the FAA medical/ATP before interviewing? I was hoping Frontier would pay for it after sending the offer over.

[schnitzel2k3]

I guess they require the FAA medical/ATP before interviewing? I was hoping Frontier would pay for it after sending the offer over.

A moticum of effort is required on the applicants part lol

[negative_g]

I guess they require the FAA medical/ATP before interviewing? I was hoping Frontier would pay for it after sending the offer over.

I imagine that due to the intricacies of getting Canadians approved for visas, the company needs to show that you are already qualified. Unlike the E3 Australian visa which has no such requirement, and is basically a guaranteed approval.

I imagine ATP-CTP schools in the USA are going to start getting a flood of emails from Canadians. The doors are opening, even if it's just a crack. And it's good for everyone involved.

[RockSalty]

I guess they require the FAA medical/ATP before interviewing? I was hoping Frontier would pay for it after sending the offer over.

I got in touch with them and they said the FAA ATP is a minimum requirement to move forward with it. I’m personally not ready to throw the money at the ATP/CTP sim course you need to get the rating converted if I don’t have something firm in writing - you’d think they could just interview and give you an offer conditional on getting our licenses converted over…

A buddy of mine was actually at a hiring event for frontier and the recruiters there had no idea about hiring Canadians (not that recruiters know everything so I hear).

[negative_g]

I guess they require the FAA medical/ATP before interviewing? I was hoping Frontier would pay for it after sending the offer over.

I got in touch with them and they said the FAA ATP is a minimum requirement to move forward with it. I’m personally not ready to throw the money at the ATP/CTP sim course you need to get the rating converted if I don’t have something firm in writing - you’d think they could just interview and give you an offer conditional on getting our licenses converted over…

A buddy of mine was actually at a hiring event for frontier and the recruiters there had no idea about hiring Canadians (not that recruiters know everything so I hear).

I have been in touch with Frontier recruitment to confirm whether the ad on Brookfield is legit and it is, and they are very much aware of the new visa sponsorship scheme. It is likely something that is very new, within the last week.

You are right the ATP is required to move on. It is a pretty simple process but unfortunately costs a bit. But that said, if you really want out of Canada this is what's needed. And I expect Frontier is only the first. Just like when the E3 visas were only regional airlines and now you have Spirit, Frontier, JetBlue and Atlas all using it. The same will happen with Canadians/Mexicans/Chileans etc.

[Ash Ketchum]

I guess they require the FAA medical/ATP before interviewing? I was hoping Frontier would pay for it after sending the offer over.

I got in touch with them and they said the FAA ATP is a minimum requirement to move forward with it. I’m personally not ready to throw the money at the ATP/CTP sim course you need to get the rating converted if I don’t have something firm in writing - you’d think they could just interview and give you an offer conditional on getting our licenses converted over…

A buddy of mine was actually at a hiring event for frontier and the recruiters there had no idea about hiring Canadians (not that recruiters know everything so I hear).

Exactly it is like 5 K USD and will require me taking time off work. Not worth it unless they are serious. I told them I will get it once I get the offer and before my start date...

[schnitzel2k3]

I did the CPL/IPT in the spring. Got the FAA card and been sitting on it as I was planning on just doing some contracting.

Was strumming my chin on the ATP as it is rather pricey, and unless I have income to justify the investment, it's not YET worth it.

If this posting proves active and we see guys transition legitimately under an HB or E3 visa program, 100% I'll be on the next ATP/CTP course.

[WellThatAgedWell]

I did the CPL/IPT in the spring. Got the FAA card and been sitting on it as I was planning on just doing some contracting.

Was strumming my chin on the ATP as it is rather pricey, and unless I have income to justify the investment, it's not YET worth it.

If this posting proves active and we see guys transition legitimately under an HB or E3 visa program, 100% I'll be on the next ATP/CTP course.

You can say it’s not worth it “yet” but Canadian wages will never catch up. If you gave all pilots here a 50 percent hike many would not be on par with the US carriers.

I think you either commit to make the move or you just accept it’s worth working for less here in Canada. Canadians pilots will be lucky to see a 10 percent hike to maintain inflation. Long term America is easily the better option for anything on a contract.

[RockSalty]

Its a lot of money to throw at a conversion if it doesnt actually get you a job - the course itself is like 5k USD at most places offering it and thats not including accomodation etc...

[WellThatAgedWell]

Its a lot of money to throw at a conversion if it doesnt actually get you a job - the course itself is like 5k USD at most places offering it and thats not including accomodation etc...

Aren’t pilots throwing 50k US to get their license up to the commercial level? 5k is nothing in the big picture. Sure it’s something to dwell on for a moment, but this is not a lot of money. You barely require time off to complete it. I know people who change careers, stop working for 4 years and go spend 5k a year in tuition.

People like guarantee and don’t like risk. That’s for the weak. Those who take this small risk will get the greatest benefit. 5k is the type of investment you might throw at a penny stock, It’s not a huge amount of money for the potential return. You are right that this may not work out for everyone, but on the scale of risk reward this is a no brainer if you are willing to commit to try and make this work. It’s cheaper than any investment most of us have made into this career to get us where we are and has the potential to double your income on the highest end of the pilot pay scale in Canada.

You could spend 5 K to get an instructor rating and work for peanuts if you like. Of take a month off work and spend the 5k on your ATP to make double what an Air Canada pilot makes. Take your pick.

[RRJetPilot]

Its a lot of money to throw at a conversion if it doesnt actually get you a job - the course itself is like 5k USD at most places offering it and thats not including accomodation etc...

Exactly the type of attitude they don’t want down there. A beat down Canadian that won’t strive to do what it takes to work and live in the USA. While the strong and motivated will do what it takes, succeed, and get rewarded for their efforts.

Enjoy your poverty wages in a country that doesn't value hard work and dedication run by a dictator that uses cabinet privilege to rule by decree.

Best if everyone is equal and get the same wage and food ration right? Oh wait…..

[schnitzel2k3]

Its a lot of money to throw at a conversion if it doesnt actually get you a job - the course itself is like 5k USD at most places offering it and thats not including accomodation etc...

Exactly the type of attitude they don’t want down there. A beat down Canadian that won’t strive to do what it takes to work and live in the USA. While the strong and motivated will do what it takes, succeed, and get rewarded for their efforts.

Enjoy your poverty wages in a country that doesn't value hard work and dedication run by a dictator that uses cabinet privilege to rule by decree.

Best if everyone is equal and get the same wage and food ration right? Oh wait…..

Lol ok ok, pump the brakes on your runaway train, shes going downhill and picking up speed.

I get it, it's great to go out and dump 5-7K on a conversion, and while the excitement is building, if all this excitement turns out to be all for not, due to a lack of visa access for employment based sponsorship, then why convert without a chance to recoup costs?

It's early, and we are starting to see the light. People with various responsibilities, spouses, families to think about, it's not as cut and dry as most think to pick up move west for the gold rush.

I hope people, if they hear back and are succesful, share that information for those that wish to follow.

This could be a great thing.

[Needswork2020]

My buddy just got the nod.
Fast process, no bullsh8t.

He, of course had a FAA with a A320 rating. I'm down here already, but as a previous 320 Skipper like him, I have just thrown my name in.
Brookfield took 12 hrs to get back to me, I'm hoping to be on the October course.

There will a rush of folks like us with FAA ATPs and A320 ratings (w/PIC time).
That will end after the first few courses - Boys start converting your licenses, it's not that hard.

Getting out of this poisonous Canadian system is what is needed. F8ck AC and their disgusting wages.

Send AC THEIR PFO letter.

[RockSalty]

Its a lot of money to throw at a conversion if it doesnt actually get you a job - the course itself is like 5k USD at most places offering it and thats not including accomodation etc...

Aren’t pilots throwing 50k US to get their license up to the commercial level? 5k is nothing in the big picture. Sure it’s something to dwell on for a moment, but this is not a lot of money. You barely require time off to complete it. I know people who change careers, stop working for 4 years and go spend 5k a year in tuition.

People like guarantee and don’t like risk. That’s for the weak. Those who take this small risk will get the greatest benefit. 5k is the type of investment you might throw at a penny stock, It’s not a huge amount of money for the potential return. You are right that this may not work out for everyone, but on the scale of risk reward this is a no brainer if you are willing to commit to try and make this work. It’s cheaper than any investment most of us have made into this career to get us where we are and has the potential to double your income on the highest end of the pilot pay scale in Canada.

You could spend 5 K to get an instructor rating and work for peanuts if you like. Of take a month off work and spend the 5k on your ATP to make double what an Air Canada pilot makes. Take your pick.

Don't get me wrong, I'll probably take a week off and get it done before the end of the year - I want to get the hell out of Canadian aviation. But what might be chump change to you or I could be a lot of money to throw away for nothing to a Jazz or Encore FO stuck living in YYZ. I think as we start to see more success stories people are going to be less afraid of the risk and find it easier to get it done.