Advise on first flying job at 500 hours?

Got a hot employment or interview tip to help a fellow aviator find a job or looking for a little job advice place your posting here.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore

IJNShiroyuki
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:33 am

Advise on first flying job at 500 hours?

Post by IJNShiroyuki »

Hello people...

So I'm a newly licensed pilot located in Toronto, with 500 hours of total time and 330 hours of PIC. License qualification includes CPL, Multi-IFR, float rating and IATRA written.

I've been applying to every job I see on Avcanada and PCC in the past three month and got no reply on those at all. I probably have sent around 50 to 100 emails and online applications... From float flying, pipeline patrol, to light twin and turbines, I'm willing to fly anything (as long as it's safe and airworthy) if I got a job.

I've called a few companys, and visited some job fair and talked to some company's chief pilot or HRs. My resume was originally made by PCC resume service and I did a few personal modifications to it afterward, with cover letter specific to each company I applied to.

I'm currently planning on making a flying trip in my own plane to northern Ontario and maybe Manitoba to visit a few companys and meet those people, the trip will probably be later this month.

I'm wondering is there any furthuer advise from you guys on how to land my first flying job at 500 hours? It feels like I've tried almost everything and haven't got feedback from any company at all... No call backs, no interviews, no nothing...

People are talking about a pilot shortage, and it really feels there is a shortage south of the boarder, and meanwhile in Canada regionals are still paying pennys, and... I don't know... I thought with my qualification and 500 hours, I should at least be able to land a job flying a cessna for pipeline patrol or something.
---------- ADS -----------
 
negative_g
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:35 am

Re: Advise on first flying job at 500 hours?

Post by negative_g »

Emails and calls sadly won't help you. You're likely just one of dozens if not hundreds of calls these operators get. You need to find a way to stand out.

Show up in person, and you'll likely find yourself in a plane pretty fast. Target medevacs in NWO/Manitoba/Sask/AB. With 500 hours you're right in the wheelhouse for right seat on the King Air.

Fast Air, Missinippi, Keewatin, Ornge, Carson Air etc.

Good luck.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by negative_g on Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
citabriaguy
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:16 am

Re: Advise on first flying job at 500 hours?

Post by citabriaguy »

You've got the ratings and qualifications available at your hours. Resume review is a good step. Especially for the PIC single engine jobs most people hiring turn to the resumes after they have asked the guys they know if anyone is looking for a job.

I know a guy who regularly calls everyone he's ever worked for and the guys he worked with, he always has good employment. Reaching out to pilots in person ideally or online who work where you are looking to get on might help. Just ask if they have suggestions on how you might be able to get on with them. Networking anywhere is important but especially up here where the barrier to entry is low and everyone hiring knows each other.

You'll hear back from someone if you stick with it. Can't say anything about the roadtrip but lots of people have got their first gig a summer later. Now is pretty late in the year for float jobs, the hiring for that starts around December for the good ones and wraps up around April-May. On letters/cvs for bush style work, keep it succinct and highlight handy skills you might have. A medivac operator might insist you have the vaccine but someone north of Kenora might not care for it.. ei leave it off and answer qs later. Sometimes cvs with a french or BC disposition get filed in the round bin, you could leave your address off if that's your case. I have a feeling PCC tailors those resumes for airlines, wouldn't hurt to have someone else look over them.
---------- ADS -----------
 
ellinas
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:20 am
Location: Ontario

Re: Advise on first flying job at 500 hours?

Post by ellinas »

My recommendation is bust your butt and get a float job up north as you will learn and fly a lot and get tremendous stick and rudder flying.
I did one gig up north one summer and in 3 weeks I remember logging 50 hours in a straight 180. Great experience, go now and start walking to all the docks up north!
Good luck

And to top it off, I got the job by driving there and talking to the owner face to face and hired me on the spot so you never know!! He said he never hired anyone from a resume, whoever came to him. Just another way of how these guys operate that’s all. Keep knocking!
---------- ADS -----------
 
if you are on the ground I guess there is now way but to look up!
IJNShiroyuki
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:33 am

Re: Advise on first flying job at 500 hours?

Post by IJNShiroyuki »

ellinas wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:53 pm My recommendation is bust your butt and get a float job up north as you will learn and fly a lot and get tremendous stick and rudder flying.
I did one gig up north one summer and in 3 weeks I remember logging 50 hours in a straight 180. Great experience, go now and start walking to all the docks up north!
Good luck

And to top it off, I got the job by driving there and talking to the owner face to face and hired me on the spot so you never know!! He said he never hired anyone from a resume, whoever came to him. Just another way of how these guys operate that’s all. Keep knocking!
Thanks for the advise! I've tried applying most float job on PCC and AvCanada but unfortunately with my float experience (only 7 hours with a basic float rating) I'm far from qualified in most operator's perspective.
---------- ADS -----------
 
IJNShiroyuki
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:33 am

Re: Advise on first flying job at 500 hours?

Post by IJNShiroyuki »

citabriaguy wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:33 pm You've got the ratings and qualifications available at your hours. Resume review is a good step. Especially for the PIC single engine jobs most people hiring turn to the resumes after they have asked the guys they know if anyone is looking for a job.

I know a guy who regularly calls everyone he's ever worked for and the guys he worked with, he always has good employment. Reaching out to pilots in person ideally or online who work where you are looking to get on might help. Just ask if they have suggestions on how you might be able to get on with them. Networking anywhere is important but especially up here where the barrier to entry is low and everyone hiring knows each other.

You'll hear back from someone if you stick with it. Can't say anything about the roadtrip but lots of people have got their first gig a summer later. Now is pretty late in the year for float jobs, the hiring for that starts around December for the good ones and wraps up around April-May. On letters/cvs for bush style work, keep it succinct and highlight handy skills you might have. A medivac operator might insist you have the vaccine but someone north of Kenora might not care for it.. ei leave it off and answer qs later. Sometimes cvs with a french or BC disposition get filed in the round bin, you could leave your address off if that's your case. I have a feeling PCC tailors those resumes for airlines, wouldn't hurt to have someone else look over them.
I'm very compelled to find a medivac flying job asap as it feels like a recession is already on the horizon. And comparing to charter operations, I think medivac job might be for secure as people will get sick no matter what the economy is doing...

Unfortunately I don't have much connections within aviation industry, most people I know are people at my local FBO and my instructor.

Float flying... I have to say it is a cool job, but most float job posted here are asking at least 50 PIC on float, that would be a big nope for my qualification. Though I still sent in my resume, I just don't have much hope on hearing back from any of those.

My prime target right now is companys like Ornge, Air Bravo, Skycare and Thunder Airline, with eyes on any other northern operators with opening jobs. I've heard Ornge are looking for people with 750+ hour and all ATPL pre-requisite, though their job ad is only asking for 500.
---------- ADS -----------
 
IJNShiroyuki
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:33 am

Re: Advise on first flying job at 500 hours?

Post by IJNShiroyuki »

negative_g wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:49 pm Emails and calls sadly won't help you. You're likely just one of dozens if not hundreds of calls these operators get. You need to find a way to stand out.

Show up in person, and you'll likely find yourself in a plane pretty fast. Target medevacs in NWO/Manitoba/Sask/AB. With 500 hours you're right in the wheelhouse for right seat on the King Air.

Fast Air, Missinippi, Keewatin, Ornge, Carson Air etc.

Good luck.
Those companies you listed, I've applied for all of them.
And I'm planning for a trip to northwestern Ontario later this month to visit those companies, but I wonder how much help it would actually provide?
The other thing is, it seems many recent king air FO job posting are all asking 1000 hour minimum on AvCanada and PCC, not sure what's going on but it feels like they still got plenty of laid of pilot from the pandemic with a lot more hours looking for jobs.

And lastly, any advise for what to do on the roadtrip? Do I just knock on the door tell the front desk I want to talk to the chief pilot / HR? That seems a bit scary though.
---------- ADS -----------
 
ellinas
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:20 am
Location: Ontario

Re: Advise on first flying job at 500 hours?

Post by ellinas »

IJNShiroyuki wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 4:25 pm
ellinas wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:53 pm My recommendation is bust your butt and get a float job up north as you will learn and fly a lot and get tremendous stick and rudder flying.
I did one gig up north one summer and in 3 weeks I remember logging 50 hours in a straight 180. Great experience, go now and start walking to all the docks up north!
Good luck

And to top it off, I got the job by driving there and talking to the owner face to face and hired me on the spot so you never know!! He said he never hired anyone from a resume, whoever came to him. Just another way of how these guys operate that’s all. Keep knocking!
Thanks for the advise! I've tried applying most float job on PCC and AvCanada but unfortunately with my float experience (only 7 hours with a basic float rating) I'm far from qualified in most operator's perspective.
Find someone to hire you working the dock and flying the right seat with the PIC flying and gain dual experience. As you gain time and experience they’ll pass you the torch. Or invest in some float time even another 30 hours or so believe me a couple of years up north and you’ll gain excellent flight time and lots of it.
---------- ADS -----------
 
if you are on the ground I guess there is now way but to look up!
imapo16
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:23 pm

Re: Advise on first flying job at 500 hours?

Post by imapo16 »

I am pretty much in the same boat as you. Although, I have around 260 TT. When people are saying there is a ''pilot shortage'' , they're forgetting the word ''experienced''. Currently in Canada, there is shit ton of low hours pilots like myself and others. I've tried the ramp jobs and I've literally hate it. I don't know if you're willing to go up north and work as a rampie for 12 months+ to potentially get an FO position. The other way is by getting your instructor license, but not everyone is programmed to be a teacher. And it costs around 10-12k nowadays. (Not everyone can afford it). My best advice to you, is networking and going in person to send your resume to these companies. It might not land you a job, but I reassure you, it's way more effective than sending out your resume online. 99% of the operators don't even glance at ours CV's. It is the harsh reality unfortunately.
---------- ADS -----------
 
ellinas
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:20 am
Location: Ontario

Re: Advise on first flying job at 500 hours?

Post by ellinas »

imapo16 wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:43 pm I am pretty much in the same boat as you. Although, I have around 260 TT. When people are saying there is a ''pilot shortage'' , they're forgetting the word ''experienced''. Currently in Canada, there is shit ton of low hours pilots like myself and others. I've tried the ramp jobs and I've literally hate it. I don't know if you're willing to go up north and work as a rampie for 12 months+ to potentially get an FO position. The other way is by getting your instructor license, but not everyone is programmed to be a teacher. And it costs around 10-12k nowadays. (Not everyone can afford it). My best advice to you, is networking and going in person to send your resume to these companies. It might not land you a job, but I reassure you, it's way more effective than sending out your resume online. 99% of the operators don't even glance at ours CV's. It is the harsh reality unfortunately.
I agree, if you’re an individual that is not tied down and willing to work hard at getting a pilot job the best way is get in your car and stop at every small operator that could land you that job flying even if it’s a single. This way they’ll see your face and get to meet the real you and you never know!
I’ve heard of guys of doing this and finding pilot jobs.

My float job Up north I worked the dock 8 hours and flew 1 hour a day but it got me 100 hours on floats that summer .

Keep at it !!!!!!
---------- ADS -----------
 
if you are on the ground I guess there is now way but to look up!
static_invertor
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:14 am

Re: Advise on first flying job at 500 hours?

Post by static_invertor »

Any way you can get a green card?

It's crazy in the states right now. You wonder how the regionals can stay financially viable given the salaries they are now forced to pay.
---------- ADS -----------
 
IJNShiroyuki
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:33 am

Re: Advise on first flying job at 500 hours?

Post by IJNShiroyuki »

static_invertor wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:10 pm Any way you can get a green card?

It's crazy in the states right now. You wonder how the regionals can stay financially viable given the salaries they are now forced to pay.
I've submitted my EB-5 around 5 years ago. Due to the submission region, it has a super long wait time and due to age problem there is no garuntee I will get it. Luckily my family will 100% get an american green card and they can sponsor me later even if I failed to get mine this round. The current wait time is probably another two or three years... So it will be right on time when I decide to move up to a jet.

And moving to the state is always my plan.

35K for an RJ FO in Toronto? Thank you not for me...
---------- ADS -----------
 
IJNShiroyuki
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:33 am

Re: Advise on first flying job at 500 hours?

Post by IJNShiroyuki »

ellinas wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:57 pm
imapo16 wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:43 pm I am pretty much in the same boat as you. Although, I have around 260 TT. When people are saying there is a ''pilot shortage'' , they're forgetting the word ''experienced''. Currently in Canada, there is shit ton of low hours pilots like myself and others. I've tried the ramp jobs and I've literally hate it. I don't know if you're willing to go up north and work as a rampie for 12 months+ to potentially get an FO position. The other way is by getting your instructor license, but not everyone is programmed to be a teacher. And it costs around 10-12k nowadays. (Not everyone can afford it). My best advice to you, is networking and going in person to send your resume to these companies. It might not land you a job, but I reassure you, it's way more effective than sending out your resume online. 99% of the operators don't even glance at ours CV's. It is the harsh reality unfortunately.
I agree, if you’re an individual that is not tied down and willing to work hard at getting a pilot job the best way is get in your car and stop at every small operator that could land you that job flying even if it’s a single. This way they’ll see your face and get to meet the real you and you never know!
I’ve heard of guys of doing this and finding pilot jobs.

My float job Up north I worked the dock 8 hours and flew 1 hour a day but it got me 100 hours on floats that summer .

Keep at it !!!!!!
I have no problem trying everything to land on a flying job, roadtrip, social with people, phone calls, whatever

Also, flying beaten up 172 to tow banners and pipeline patrols? Fine with me. Old turbines? Sure, 70 year old floatplane? Absolutely

but what I do have a problem with is company exploiting young inexperienced pilot by asking them to work on the ramp and pay minimum wage with no promise on how long it will take to get to flightline.

And I own a plane myself. If I really need that 100 hours on a single piston, I will just fill up my tank and fly around... And I've already done this 3x to reach 500 hours...
---------- ADS -----------
 
IJNShiroyuki
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:33 am

Re: Advise on first flying job at 500 hours?

Post by IJNShiroyuki »

imapo16 wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:43 pm I am pretty much in the same boat as you. Although, I have around 260 TT. When people are saying there is a ''pilot shortage'' , they're forgetting the word ''experienced''. Currently in Canada, there is shit ton of low hours pilots like myself and others. I've tried the ramp jobs and I've literally hate it. I don't know if you're willing to go up north and work as a rampie for 12 months+ to potentially get an FO position. The other way is by getting your instructor license, but not everyone is programmed to be a teacher. And it costs around 10-12k nowadays. (Not everyone can afford it). My best advice to you, is networking and going in person to send your resume to these companies. It might not land you a job, but I reassure you, it's way more effective than sending out your resume online. 99% of the operators don't even glance at ours CV's. It is the harsh reality unfortunately.
I've considered getting my instructor rating, but after bringing up a few friends of mine and let them have a little bit of control, I realized instructing isn't really for me. I'm such a bad teacher with little patient. And I don't want to ruin anyone's student's learning experience.

Though I don't want to, I've still applied for a few positions for dockhands and ramp agent. But got no reply either...
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
triplebarrel
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:14 am
Location: pik

Re: Advise on first flying job at 500 hours?

Post by triplebarrel »

IJNShiroyuki wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:41 pm
ellinas wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:57 pm
imapo16 wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:43 pm I am pretty much in the same boat as you. Although, I have around 260 TT. When people are saying there is a ''pilot shortage'' , they're forgetting the word ''experienced''. Currently in Canada, there is shit ton of low hours pilots like myself and others. I've tried the ramp jobs and I've literally hate it. I don't know if you're willing to go up north and work as a rampie for 12 months+ to potentially get an FO position. The other way is by getting your instructor license, but not everyone is programmed to be a teacher. And it costs around 10-12k nowadays. (Not everyone can afford it). My best advice to you, is networking and going in person to send your resume to these companies. It might not land you a job, but I reassure you, it's way more effective than sending out your resume online. 99% of the operators don't even glance at ours CV's. It is the harsh reality unfortunately.
I agree, if you’re an individual that is not tied down and willing to work hard at getting a pilot job the best way is get in your car and stop at every small operator that could land you that job flying even if it’s a single. This way they’ll see your face and get to meet the real you and you never know!
I’ve heard of guys of doing this and finding pilot jobs.

My float job Up north I worked the dock 8 hours and flew 1 hour a day but it got me 100 hours on floats that summer .

Keep at it !!!!!!
I have no problem trying everything to land on a flying job, roadtrip, social with people, phone calls, whatever

Also, flying beaten up 172 to tow banners and pipeline patrols? Fine with me. Old turbines? Sure, 70 year old floatplane? Absolutely

but what I do have a problem with is company exploiting young inexperienced pilot by asking them to work on the ramp and pay minimum wage with no promise on how long it will take to get to flightline.

And I own a plane myself. If I really need that 100 hours on a single piston, I will just fill up my tank and fly around... And I've already done this 3x to reach 500 hours...
"...is company exploiting young inexperienced pilot by asking them to work on the ramp and pay minimum wage with no promise on how long it will take to get to flightline."

northstar and wasaya will only exploit you for 6-12 months on the ramp then boom you are flying. I recommend northstar albeit wasaya has come more ATRs coming online

good luck!
---------- ADS -----------
 
IJNShiroyuki
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:33 am

Re: Advise on first flying job at 500 hours?

Post by IJNShiroyuki »

triplebarrel wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:27 am
IJNShiroyuki wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:41 pm
ellinas wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:57 pm

I agree, if you’re an individual that is not tied down and willing to work hard at getting a pilot job the best way is get in your car and stop at every small operator that could land you that job flying even if it’s a single. This way they’ll see your face and get to meet the real you and you never know!
I’ve heard of guys of doing this and finding pilot jobs.

My float job Up north I worked the dock 8 hours and flew 1 hour a day but it got me 100 hours on floats that summer .

Keep at it !!!!!!
I have no problem trying everything to land on a flying job, roadtrip, social with people, phone calls, whatever

Also, flying beaten up 172 to tow banners and pipeline patrols? Fine with me. Old turbines? Sure, 70 year old floatplane? Absolutely

but what I do have a problem with is company exploiting young inexperienced pilot by asking them to work on the ramp and pay minimum wage with no promise on how long it will take to get to flightline.

And I own a plane myself. If I really need that 100 hours on a single piston, I will just fill up my tank and fly around... And I've already done this 3x to reach 500 hours...
"...is company exploiting young inexperienced pilot by asking them to work on the ramp and pay minimum wage with no promise on how long it will take to get to flightline."

northstar and wasaya will only exploit you for 6-12 months on the ramp then boom you are flying. I recommend northstar albeit wasaya has come more ATRs coming online

good luck!
:rolleyes: Fair...
Well it is really a race to bottom...
---------- ADS -----------
 
Heavy Rayn
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:04 am

Re: Advise on first flying job at 500 hours?

Post by Heavy Rayn »

Unfortunately if you’re just emailing résumés to the northern companies you likely won’t get a call with 500 hours. I work up here for one of the companies you mentioned and we’re seeing new hires with well over 1000 hours still. You’ll need to do something to stand out and that would be best done in person. I would recommend you complete that trip to the north. 750 hrs will open up a lot more opportunities than 500 will if you’re able to get to that higher number.
---------- ADS -----------
 
propfeather
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:27 pm

Re: Advise on first flying job at 500 hours?

Post by propfeather »

Make sure you're following up and then also sending a new resume every month to get to increase your chances of having your resume arrive at the same time they need someone. Being there in person, ready to start immediately can help a ton too.

Also, the lack of commercial experience could be hindering you. Flying your own plane when you want is quite a bit different than operating it commercially. Realistically it won't take you very long to get into the swing of things but it may be a factor for the employer.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Turboprops
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:47 pm

Re: Advise on first flying job at 500 hours?

Post by Turboprops »

I used to think like you, feel like all ramp jobs are scams that exploit low time pilots.
After working at my current company I kind of see things their perspective a little more.

Small 703/4 operators have very limited training capacity, they’re basically saying “we’ll give you a FO spot, but we don’t have the resources to train all 20 of you this month, if we do 4 per month it’ll be a 5 month wait, are you okay with this?”

With how things are right now, you won’t be working ramp jobs any more than 6 months if you find a company that keeps their promise and hires from within.

So you got all your hours flying your plane around? In most employer’s view you’re just a 250 fresh CPL then.
Sorry if this is harsh, but bombing around in your plane doing XC on sky clear days isn’t exactly competitive experience.
---------- ADS -----------
 
static_invertor
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:14 am

Re: Advise on first flying job at 500 hours?

Post by static_invertor »

Regarding the ramp wait time.

No one knows where the industry will be 6 months from now. Everyone knows the industry goes in severe boom - bust cycles. Another bust cycle is coming, it's just a matter of when.

Operators if they're honest should really say "I don't know how long you'll be on the ramp, because things can change in a heart beat".

Canada has a lot of new low cost airlines coming on-line. I don't know how the market supports all them. All it takes is for a couple of them to go down and you're back to movement stagnation.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Employment Forum”