HELP NEEDED. SHOULD I GO WJ MAINLINE?

[digits_]

Putting things into perspective - finding employment with a CARS 705 airline required years of experience many years ago. It is a privilege to be sitting in the flight deck of an airliner that not many people can experience.

By that logic, a medevac cockpit would be much more exclusive. There are way less medevac airplanes flying around than 705 machines. What a privilege those medevac pilots get to enjoy. Maybe if you're lucky, you can one day be one as well!

[sjatana]

Putting things into perspective - finding employment with a CARS 705 airline required years of experience many years ago. It is a privilege to be sitting in the flight deck of an airliner that not many people can experience.

By that logic, a medevac cockpit would be much more exclusive. There are way less medevac airplanes flying around than 705 machines. What a privilege those medevac pilots get to enjoy. Maybe if you're lucky, you can one day be one as well!

I appreciate your post, digits.

The point I was attempting to get across is there are many people out there who wanted aviation as a career but could not attain for it whatever reason, and the market we are in makes it easier for lower time folks to get in faster compared to what it was like years ago. When you have a chance to interview at any company, medevac or WJ, an opportunity like that to get to the next level in one's career should not be taken for granted (Not to say the OP was doing this). But as someone else pointed out to which I agree, it's just a job and one should look at pay, lifestyle, benefits etc as part of the decision making process. The benefit of today's market offers folks more choices and flexibility before the music stops again.

Cheers and safe flying.

[crpilot]

I also would have though Jazz would be better in the long run and given better QOL with senority bidding. Also probably more opportunity for management type positions. Correct me if im wrong but WJ has social bidding not senority bidding? Curious to heasr peoples thoughts. I was planning on making a career at Jazz (living in Calgary), would WJ be a better option and why?

My personal opinion would be that Jazz is the better option. Even if AC isn’t in your crosshairs, Jazz is still a good second best with a stable career and decent lifestyle after you build some seniority.
WJ does not offer long term stability anymore IMHO. Also, it currently takes nearly 7 years seniority to hold YYC FO reserve. So if you live in Calgary, plan on at close to a decade flying out of YYZ first.

Actually as of this month, YYC FO reserve is a 2020 hire. YYC line holders are 2016 DOH.

[Jimmy_Hoffa]

I also would have though Jazz would be better in the long run and given better QOL with senority bidding. Also probably more opportunity for management type positions. Correct me if im wrong but WJ has social bidding not senority bidding? Curious to heasr peoples thoughts. I was planning on making a career at Jazz (living in Calgary), would WJ be a better option and why?

My personal opinion would be that Jazz is the better option. Even if AC isn’t in your crosshairs, Jazz is still a good second best with a stable career and decent lifestyle after you build some seniority.
WJ does not offer long term stability anymore IMHO. Also, it currently takes nearly 7 years seniority to hold YYC FO reserve. So if you live in Calgary, plan on at close to a decade flying out of YYZ first.

Actually as of this month, YYC FO reserve is a 2020 hire. YYC line holders are 2016 DOH.

How long is it to get the 87 in YYZ? What’s the schedule look like Vs. senior 37 FO ?

[CXALE]

My personal opinion would be that Jazz is the better option. Even if AC isn’t in your crosshairs, Jazz is still a good second best with a stable career and decent lifestyle after you build some seniority.
WJ does not offer long term stability anymore IMHO. Also, it currently takes nearly 7 years seniority to hold YYC FO reserve. So if you live in Calgary, plan on at close to a decade flying out of YYZ first.

Actually as of this month, YYC FO reserve is a 2020 hire. YYC line holders are 2016 DOH.

How long is it to get the 87 in YYZ? What’s the schedule look like Vs. senior 37 FO ?

787 is closing YYZ soon, so not applicable for the time being

[Jimmy_Hoffa]

Actually as of this month, YYC FO reserve is a 2020 hire. YYC line holders are 2016 DOH.

How long is it to get the 87 in YYZ? What’s the schedule look like Vs. senior 37 FO ?

787 is closing YYZ soon, so not applicable for the time being

All of the 87 ops moving back to YYC ?

[Canadaflyer46]

My personal opinion would be that Jazz is the better option. Even if AC isn’t in your crosshairs, Jazz is still a good second best with a stable career and decent lifestyle after you build some seniority.
WJ does not offer long term stability anymore IMHO. Also, it currently takes nearly 7 years seniority to hold YYC FO reserve. So if you live in Calgary, plan on at close to a decade flying out of YYZ first.

Actually as of this month, YYC FO reserve is a 2020 hire. YYC line holders are 2016 DOH.

How long is it to get the 87 in YYZ? What’s the schedule look like Vs. senior 37 FO ?

787 in YYZ doesn’t exist anymore, it’s all YYC moving forward.
Most junior 787 FO on last published list (July) is a 2012 hire. Schedule is short-call reserve (2 hours to report). Most junior FO who’s a block holder is a 2007 hire.

[C-GGGQ]

How long for a block yyz 737 fo?

[Canadaflyer46]

How long for a block yyz 737 fo?

New seniority list as of a few days ago.
Most junior blockholder FO currently has a hire date of:

YYZ: Feb 2020
YVR: Mar 2016
YYC:Mar 2016

For an upgrade, most junior captain (not a blockholder, BOTL) has a hire date of:

YYZ: Mar 2013
YVR: Oct 2009
YYC: Oct 2008

[Inverted2]

Wow I didn’t think things were that slow there. So if you got hired now it might be 10-15 for an upgrade plus several more years on reserve? That’s a hard NO

[PostmasterGeneral]

Wow I didn’t think things were that slow there. So if you got hired now it might be 10-15 for an upgrade plus several more years on reserve? That’s a hard NO

It's been like that for a long time. WJ is a "young" company as far as expected retirements, especially compared to AC.

[Inverted2]

I figured so. Just didn’t think it was that bad.

[averageatbest]

It's been like that for a long time. WJ is a "young" company as far as expected retirements, especially compared to AC.

Don't worry, Onex is slashing and smashing wherever they can to make a profit now without any regard for profit in the future.

[Canadaflyer46]

How long for a block yyz 737 fo?

New seniority list as of a few days ago.
Most junior blockholder FO currently has a hire date of:

YYZ: Feb 2020
YVR: Mar 2016
YYC:Mar 2016

For an upgrade, most junior captain (not a blockholder, BOTL) has a hire date of:

YYZ: Mar 2013
YVR: Oct 2009
YYC: Oct 2008

Some other stats.

Most junior blockholder for 737 Captain:

YYZ: Aug 2010
YVR: Apr 2007
YYC: Aug 2006

787 FO:
Most junior:Jul 2013
Most junior blockholder: Oct 2012

787 Captain:
Most junior: May 2002
Most junior blockholder: May 2001

[C-GGGQ]

Now not to sound like a dumb question, but most other airlines have a seniority bid even Swoop as I understand and their pilots are not on reserve for years. Could it be that the new system actually reduces time on reserve?

[FL030]

This chart from the CP of Flair indicates WestJet has the lowest compensation in Canada by a pretty large margin.

[C-GGGQ]

While possibly a bit biased, it’s probably a decent representation. Longest upgrade times means less of your career as a Captain and probably never seeing Widebody Captain. Hurts the career earnings vs just going year to year where everybody is pretty close realistically in the first few years at least.

[Dronepiper]

Swoop reserve system has pros and cons. Reserve is not seniority based at swoop. In theory, anyone can be assigned reserve. Even the most senior pilot could be on reserve. Generally they will try their best to even it out among the pilots. Usually it will be around 4 days a month, but that changes ALOT depending on staffing levels.

The plus side behind swoop reserve vs mainline reserve is they can’t move your days off around to fit their schedule. Once the schedule is published, any days off you have are guaranteed. You are not required to accept a reserve trip if it pushes you into a day off (at least that’s my understanding). If you do accept, you get OT for it of course.

If you are already out of base on a reserve trip, it can get extended into a day off, but you would of course get OT. I don’t know if you can turn this down and request a DH back home to ensure you get your day off?

The MAJOR downside to swoop reserve is this: if they are overstaffed for any given month, they will just fill your schedule with reserve days to hit your MMG (Or as close to it while respecting your 12 GDOs).

This means some days there might be like 7 FO’s on reserve for absolutely no reason. This means you only get your bare min 12 GDOs. It’s like they are trying to justify paying you, but in reality just wasting everyone’s time. This is very very frustrating for commuters, or anyone who would like to go travelling during periods of down time.

My friend at Transat said they just get extra days off when there isn’t much flying for them. He said some quiet months (before covid), they only worked like 40-60 hour blocks, and ended up with 18-20 full days off each month. They were still paid their 80 MMG.

[Maritimer]

Swoop reserve system has pros and cons. Reserve is not seniority based at swoop. In theory, anyone can be assigned reserve. Even the most senior pilot could be on reserve. Generally they will try their best to even it out among the pilots. Usually it will be around 4 days a month, but that changes ALOT depending on staffing levels.

The plus side behind swoop reserve vs mainline reserve is they can’t move your days off around to fit their schedule. Once the schedule is published, any days off you have are guaranteed. You are not required to accept a reserve trip if it pushes you into a day off (at least that’s my understanding). If you do accept, you get OT for it of course.

If you are already out of base on a reserve trip, it can get extended into a day off, but you would of course get OT. I don’t know if you can turn this down and request a DH back home to ensure you get your day off?

The MAJOR downside to swoop reserve is this: if they are overstaffed for any given month, they will just fill your schedule with reserve days to hit your MMG (Or as close to it while respecting your 12 GDOs).

This means some days there might be like 7 FO’s on reserve for absolutely no reason. This means you only get your bare min 12 GDOs. It’s like they are trying to justify paying you, but in reality just wasting everyone’s time. This is very very frustrating for commuters, or anyone who would like to go travelling during periods of down time.

My friend at Transat said they just get extra days off when there isn’t much flying for them. He said some quiet months (before covid), they only worked like 40-60 hour blocks, and ended up with 18-20 full days off each month. They were still paid their 80 MMG.

I wouldn't bank on much of this being relevant once the new contract is signed.

[Canadaflyer46]

Swoop reserve system has pros and cons. Reserve is not seniority based at swoop. In theory, anyone can be assigned reserve. Even the most senior pilot could be on reserve. Generally they will try their best to even it out among the pilots. Usually it will be around 4 days a month, but that changes ALOT depending on staffing levels.

The plus side behind swoop reserve vs mainline reserve is they can’t move your days off around to fit their schedule. Once the schedule is published, any days off you have are guaranteed. You are not required to accept a reserve trip if it pushes you into a day off (at least that’s my understanding). If you do accept, you get OT for it of course.

If you are already out of base on a reserve trip, it can get extended into a day off, but you would of course get OT. I don’t know if you can turn this down and request a DH back home to ensure you get your day off?

The MAJOR downside to swoop reserve is this: if they are overstaffed for any given month, they will just fill your schedule with reserve days to hit your MMG (Or as close to it while respecting your 12 GDOs).

This means some days there might be like 7 FO’s on reserve for absolutely no reason. This means you only get your bare min 12 GDOs. It’s like they are trying to justify paying you, but in reality just wasting everyone’s time. This is very very frustrating for commuters, or anyone who would like to go travelling during periods of down time.

My friend at Transat said they just get extra days off when there isn’t much flying for them. He said some quiet months (before covid), they only worked like 40-60 hour blocks, and ended up with 18-20 full days off each month. They were still paid their 80 MMG.

"In no case may the Company simply hold the reserve pilot in reserve with no reasonable expectation of utilization". That's straight out of our current contract. Add it to the pile of grievances I guess. Highest amount of any ALPA airline by a long shot apparently.
In any case, Swoop may likely not exist as we know it in a year anyway . Probably the same for Encore shortly after.