Flow through to AC

[CPT.HarshColdReality]

It is to my knowledge the MEC is actively discussing this.

[Transition9er2]

The simple math is, jazz is quickly approaching the time when they simply won’t have enough pilots who are able to transition over to AC to meet that 60% requirement.

My guess is, in 10-12 months AC will have depleted all available candidates from Jazz. Unless Jazz puts a stop to it first.

The 2019 contract was pitched to the pilot group as “vote yes for this and save your jobs. Vote no and CR MIGHT destroy our airline entirely. The sweetener is they’ll take 60% if you vote yes”

Fast forward to today, and the contract between Jazz and AC is a steaming pile of crap.

If you wanna get to AC the fastest way possible, my advice, go to Flair, Lynx, CargoJet etc… you’ll get significantly better pay right out of the gate and those airlines will be the next source to meet AC’s hiring demands.

If you want to work for a great company, but the pay is subpar and you have a really solid option of one day possibly flowing to AC, definitely go to Jazz. But seriously consider options if you’re only using Jazz as a stepping stone.

Food for thought.

T.

[Ash Ketchum]

If jazz doesn't reduce the 60 % they will lose too many pilots.if they do reduce it people will just quit (unless wages and work conditions drastically improve) and they will still lose too many pilots. Not sure if they have an easy out here.

[rudder]

If jazz doesn't reduce the 60 % they will lose too many pilots.if they do reduce it people will just quit (unless wages and work conditions drastically improve) and they will still lose too many pilots. Not sure if they have an easy out here.

Jazz got what it wanted in the short term. Cheap pilots with a short Jazz tenure. The cost was high turnover. Training costs paid by AC so no big deal. Now post-COVID, there is massive hiring at AC, there is a massive spike in Jazz flow, a flow backlog, and pilots still stuck on a de facto b-scale at Jazz with a questionable flow timeline to AC.

If Jazz and AC agree to reduce flow, Jazz is facing a policy grievance with a potential requested remedy of reinstating the original pay scales at Jazz (the quid pro quo for flow, as well as the CBA term extension). ALPA would be crazy to consent to any diminution of the existing terms absent compensation and a flow mechanism that is not subject to whim.

Likely this was discussed earlier in the year with no agreed resolution. There has been no official communication from the union about resumed discussions.

Have any Jazz pilots been assigned a September PIT course date with AC?

[goingmissed]

If jazz doesn't reduce the 60 % they will lose too many pilots.if they do reduce it people will just quit (unless wages and work conditions drastically improve) and they will still lose too many pilots. Not sure if they have an easy out here.

Industry wide change is coming. Hopefully it's better WaWCons and not another recession.

[Droho774]

Jazz pilots have not been assigned pit dates for September as of now. Hopefully they will start being awarded this month

[kiaszceski]

If jazz doesn't reduce the 60 % they will lose too many pilots.if they do reduce it people will just quit (unless wages and work conditions drastically improve) and they will still lose too many pilots. Not sure if they have an easy out here.

ALPA would be crazy to consent to any diminution of the existing terms absent compensation and a flow mechanism that is not subject to whim.

How effective is usually JZA MEC/the company to come up with an acceptable resolution without going into the grievance process?

[Transition9er2]

Had a chat with a member of the training department recently (reliable source) and they said the Sept classes will definitely be made up of Jazz, if not entirely a great deal of the class will be Jazz.

Flow is starting in Sept no question, but the math is what’s interesting in my opinion and how the 2 companies will make things work over the next few months.

AC continues to interview 4-6 candidates a day Mon-Fri so I suspect the remaining classes of the year will be made up of mostly Jazz with a few OTS sprinkled in. This is just my guess.

AC is planning on running an Equipment Bid in Sept, which will be a good indicator as to what the hiring will look like over the winter.

GS’s running roughly every 3 weeks with 25-35 per. Management wanted 45-50 per but the training departments are running beyond max capacity at the moment and they simply said they just can’t take that many in.

I sure hope we start seeing all the “contractually” qualified Jazz candidates coming over soon.

Good luck everyone!!

[CanadianPilotQc]

Have any Jazz pilots been assigned a September PIT course date with AC?

very important question, anyone?

[CPT.HarshColdReality]

Interviews ongoing but no assignments yet.

[JoeyBarton]

But Jazz folks have an Aug 29th PIT course date assigned correct?

[negative_g]

If jazz doesn't reduce the 60 % they will lose too many pilots.if they do reduce it people will just quit (unless wages and work conditions drastically improve) and they will still lose too many pilots. Not sure if they have an easy out here.

If the 60% is reduced or placed on hold, every CA at Jazz should go get their FAA ATP and be ready for when the door cracks even wider.

I think it was you that mentioned you wouldn't get it unless having a job offer. But I don't think that will be an option for a while. Reason being, is any airline that petitions the US Government to import pilots has to show there are none available or willing to take the job. And Americans must have an ATP to do the job, so I'm sure the PERM Labour Certification (the document an airline would get from the government outlining the experience required) would have a mandatory FAA ATP as part of the requirement.

[Ash Ketchum]

If jazz doesn't reduce the 60 % they will lose too many pilots.if they do reduce it people will just quit (unless wages and work conditions drastically improve) and they will still lose too many pilots. Not sure if they have an easy out here.

If the 60% is reduced or placed on hold, every CA at Jazz should go get their FAA ATP and be ready for when the door cracks even wider.

I think it was you that mentioned you wouldn't get it unless having a job offer. But I don't think that will be an option for a while. Reason being, is any airline that petitions the US Government to import pilots has to show there are none available or willing to take the job. And Americans must have an ATP to do the job, so I'm sure the PERM Labour Certification (the document an airline would get from the government outlining the experience required) would have a mandatory FAA ATP as part of the requirement.

Yeah I have realized I need to get the ATP after doing more research. I got the ball rolling and booked my medical yesterday. I hope other Jazz captains follow suit as morale at Jazz is at an all time low these days.

[Canadaflyer46]

If jazz doesn't reduce the 60 % they will lose too many pilots.if they do reduce it people will just quit (unless wages and work conditions drastically improve) and they will still lose too many pilots. Not sure if they have an easy out here.

If the 60% is reduced or placed on hold, every CA at Jazz should go get their FAA ATP and be ready for when the door cracks even wider.

I think it was you that mentioned you wouldn't get it unless having a job offer. But I don't think that will be an option for a while. Reason being, is any airline that petitions the US Government to import pilots has to show there are none available or willing to take the job. And Americans must have an ATP to do the job, so I'm sure the PERM Labour Certification (the document an airline would get from the government outlining the experience required) would have a mandatory FAA ATP as part of the requirement.

Yeah I have realized I need to get the ATP after doing more research. I got the ball rolling and booked my medical yesterday. I hope other Jazz captains follow suit as morale at Jazz is at an all time low these days.

Morale can’t be that low. I watched 3 Jazz Q400s in YYC today shut an engine down on the taxi in. 32 degrees outside. I used to think Encore captains lacked common sense, not sure when the ‘money-saving above all else’ obsession caught on at Jazz.

[rigpiggy]

If you can get the apu started by all means shutdown #1. The APU puts out more air, moreso than with both engines running at idle

[Canadaflyer46]

If you can get the apu started by all means shutdown #1. The APU puts out more air, moreso than with both engines running at idle

Interesting procedure. I’d always thought with the APU bleed air on and Number 2 still running you’d be sucking engine exhaust into the cabin.

[kiaszceski]

If the 60% is reduced or placed on hold, every CA at Jazz should go get their FAA ATP and be ready for when the door cracks even wider.

I think it was you that mentioned you wouldn't get it unless having a job offer. But I don't think that will be an option for a while. Reason being, is any airline that petitions the US Government to import pilots has to show there are none available or willing to take the job. And Americans must have an ATP to do the job, so I'm sure the PERM Labour Certification (the document an airline would get from the government outlining the experience required) would have a mandatory FAA ATP as part of the requirement.

Yeah I have realized I need to get the ATP after doing more research. I got the ball rolling and booked my medical yesterday. I hope other Jazz captains follow suit as morale at Jazz is at an all time low these days.

Morale can’t be that low. I watched 3 Jazz Q400s in YYC today shut an engine down on the taxi in. 32 degrees outside. I used to think Encore captains lacked common sense, not sure when the ‘money-saving above all else’ obsession caught on at Jazz.

YYC captains are mostly senior, so most probably on the scale A.

[KenoraPilot]

If the 60% is reduced or placed on hold, every CA at Jazz should go get their FAA ATP and be ready for when the door cracks even wider.

I think it was you that mentioned you wouldn't get it unless having a job offer. But I don't think that will be an option for a while. Reason being, is any airline that petitions the US Government to import pilots has to show there are none available or willing to take the job. And Americans must have an ATP to do the job, so I'm sure the PERM Labour Certification (the document an airline would get from the government outlining the experience required) would have a mandatory FAA ATP as part of the requirement.

Yeah I have realized I need to get the ATP after doing more research. I got the ball rolling and booked my medical yesterday. I hope other Jazz captains follow suit as morale at Jazz is at an all time low these days.

Morale can’t be that low. I watched 3 Jazz Q400s in YYC today shut an engine down on the taxi in. 32 degrees outside. I used to think Encore captains lacked common sense, not sure when the ‘money-saving above all else’ obsession caught on at Jazz.

Starting APU and way better bleed air than 2 engines on the ground at ground idle and disc. 100% cooler air!

[a2btrail]

I can confirm flow to AC has started from Jazz. Regardless of the noise I have confirmed the following below over the last 10 days internally...

3 personal friends of mine here at Jazz have been offered the same AC Sept 2022 PIT Course. Offers are going out.

Each of them knew other Jazz pilots who have also been offered the same course next month.

I can confirm at least 10 Jazz pilots will be in the Sept 2022 course.

Updates to follow.

Good news for those who care about flow. Don't listen to the noise about no flow for Jazz pilots this year. I can 100% say this is NOT true come next month and onwards.

[Droho774]

We’re they offered a specific class date? When was their start date at Jazz/sky?