Recruiting and Retention Bonus

[rudder]

There were talks about a training bond starting in September, hopefully that doesn’t happen but that’s where managements mind is FYI.

A training bond is a term and condition of employment and therefore would have to be included in the WAWCON of the CBA.

Could also be added via LOU. Not sure why ALPA would be on board.

[WellThatAgedWell]

Why don’t we all just come back in 3 years and ask if the deal worked out . I’m thinking lots of those who were offered the deal won’t be around anyways because it’s not a whole lot of money to walk away from in the big picture.

If companies want people to stick around they need to stop using coercion, pay pilots more competitive with the rest of the world, and offer benefits that are more competitive with the rest of the world. Here in Canada that never happens, we just talk about how it seems like it is coming, or might happen.

In recognition of Flair pilots' contributions and efforts through a challenging summer

If the pay is for the contributions of this summer, why are they waiting three years to pay it out? Next summer might be a new challenge, and might warrant a new bonus! Oh right… this is not for just this summer, this is for the next three summers. Doesn’t sound so juicy eh. The bonus is diluted, and we know in three years we will taste how watered down this junk really is. We just can’t see it yet.

[photofly]

If companies want people to stick around they need to stop using coercion

Someone around here (can’t remember who) used to point out that giving people money to turn up to work is a form of coercion. If they truly wanted to stick around of course they’d work for free.

[atpilot]

Screw retention bonuses. 10k a year bonus so what? So that they don't leave for a job south of the border that pays 3x the salary?

If they want to recognize the hard work for this summer, pay the pilots now for the work this summer. A bonus with these conditions is just a scam to try and keep people around. It's not worth it.

Ok wait a minute, let me get something straight. The salaries are increasing fairly significantly AND they are offering a bonus on top to keep you around and you're STILL complaining? How is this even a scam?

I've flown with guys like you. Never happy about anything no matter where you are. Am I right?

What is the FO salary increasing to?

Rumour is 0%. Maybe I'm wrong...I hope that I'm wrong.

[Arnie Pye]

Rumour is 0%. Maybe I'm wrong...I hope that I'm wrong.

This is the only rumour out there regarding FO pay. I hope it is incorrect given that inflation just took away 10% of the take-home pay.

Why don’t we all just come back in 3 years and ask if the deal worked out . I’m thinking lots of those who were offered the deal won’t be around anyways because it’s not a whole lot of money to walk away from in the big picture.

If companies want people to stick around they need to stop using coercion, pay pilots more competitive with the rest of the world, and offer benefits that are more competitive with the rest of the world. Here in Canada that never happens, we just talk about how it seems like it is coming, or might happen.

In recognition of Flair pilots' contributions and efforts through a challenging summer

If the pay is for the contributions of this summer, why are they waiting three years to pay it out? Next summer might be a new challenge, and might warrant a new bonus! Oh right… this is not for just this summer, this is for the next three summers. Doesn’t sound so juicy eh. The bonus is diluted, and we know in three years we will taste how watered down this junk really is. We just can’t see it yet.

I haven't ran into a single person that is impressed with the bonus scheme. the only people intent on collecting it are too old to go somewhere else and were going to stay in the first place.

I suspect it is a chess move intent on proving to the minister of labour that Flair tried their very hardest and just can't find qualified Canadian pilots. Therefore, they need to bring in TFW pilots and offer them a path to citizenship. All this will do is work to suppress WAWCON in the future.

I’m sorry but like most things in Canadian aviation, this retention bonus is a joke. Even with the bonuses counted yearly on top of flair salaries, this is still one of the lowest paying 737 jobs in Canada. Not to mention, you won’t see that money for 3 years only to then pay massive taxes on it. Bonuses that are awarded upon reaching several gates or milestones would be a much more attractive proposition than this 3 year promise costing the company nada for 3 whole years! Think about that!

As for the pay-scale hope, flair management has been promising that for over a year now with no action, if they really wanted to show their pilots they mean business there would have been an LOU signed a long time ago. Instead they are riding the promise wave for as long as possible, if it will even come to pass. (Of course if that happens most other carriers will also raise theirs and these bonuses will still be a joke.)

The company isn’t stupid, promises cost them nothing, and pilots accepting promises and having hope are a managements best friend.

Sadly, a lot of the comments in this thread reinforce how and why canadian aviation and it’s pilots got to their current state. We always go after promises while have near infinite hope that things will change, and that has got to be the fatal flaw of being a Canadian pilot.

I’m sure everybody realizes that we are in a hard pilot shortage at the moment, there are very few industries that have the power that we do. All it takes is unity within the pilot group for change to happen, and quickly, that’s all it takes! As somebody above mentioned never accept the first offer, ESPECIALLY if the ball is in your court. (It definitely is)

It's a joke? It is almost identical to the other retention schemes in the country (think Cargojet). Flair management has not been promising anything as the company and ALPA are in negotiations and, by the way, negotiations did not begin until January because of the move from Unifor to ALPA and that sits squarely with the pilots. Negotiations are ongoing and we will get a deal once that it is complete. Comments about a pay LOU are ridiculous - it doesn't work that way. But the bonus certainly telegraphs the company's intention to pay competitively and I high doubt the ALPA team would have agreed to it if the negotiations were not going well.

If things were going well, we would have had a contract to vote on by now. So far, we are 200+ days into negotiations with no end in sight. Someone smarter than me would probably know the answer to this - isn't there a legal limit on the length of negotiations in Canada?

I think negotiations are going well from the company perspective. Every rumour I've heard hit the flight deck, ALPA is giving away the farm. Hope I'm wrong and yes, they are just rumours so far.

[Soyer]

Rumour is 0%. Maybe I'm wrong...I hope that I'm wrong.

This is the only rumour out there regarding FO pay. I hope it is incorrect given that inflation just took away 10% of the take-home pay.

Why don’t we all just come back in 3 years and ask if the deal worked out . I’m thinking lots of those who were offered the deal won’t be around anyways because it’s not a whole lot of money to walk away from in the big picture.

If companies want people to stick around they need to stop using coercion, pay pilots more competitive with the rest of the world, and offer benefits that are more competitive with the rest of the world. Here in Canada that never happens, we just talk about how it seems like it is coming, or might happen.

In recognition of Flair pilots' contributions and efforts through a challenging summer

If the pay is for the contributions of this summer, why are they waiting three years to pay it out? Next summer might be a new challenge, and might warrant a new bonus! Oh right… this is not for just this summer, this is for the next three summers. Doesn’t sound so juicy eh. The bonus is diluted, and we know in three years we will taste how watered down this junk really is. We just can’t see it yet.

I haven't ran into a single person that is impressed with the bonus scheme. the only people intent on collecting it are too old to go somewhere else and were going to stay in the first place.

I suspect it is a chess move intent on proving to the minister of labour that Flair tried their very hardest and just can't find qualified Canadian pilots. Therefore, they need to bring in TFW pilots and offer them a path to citizenship. All this will do is work to suppress WAWCON in the future.

I’m sorry but like most things in Canadian aviation, this retention bonus is a joke. Even with the bonuses counted yearly on top of flair salaries, this is still one of the lowest paying 737 jobs in Canada. Not to mention, you won’t see that money for 3 years only to then pay massive taxes on it. Bonuses that are awarded upon reaching several gates or milestones would be a much more attractive proposition than this 3 year promise costing the company nada for 3 whole years! Think about that!

As for the pay-scale hope, flair management has been promising that for over a year now with no action, if they really wanted to show their pilots they mean business there would have been an LOU signed a long time ago. Instead they are riding the promise wave for as long as possible, if it will even come to pass. (Of course if that happens most other carriers will also raise theirs and these bonuses will still be a joke.)

The company isn’t stupid, promises cost them nothing, and pilots accepting promises and having hope are a managements best friend.

Sadly, a lot of the comments in this thread reinforce how and why canadian aviation and it’s pilots got to their current state. We always go after promises while have near infinite hope that things will change, and that has got to be the fatal flaw of being a Canadian pilot.

I’m sure everybody realizes that we are in a hard pilot shortage at the moment, there are very few industries that have the power that we do. All it takes is unity within the pilot group for change to happen, and quickly, that’s all it takes! As somebody above mentioned never accept the first offer, ESPECIALLY if the ball is in your court. (It definitely is)

It's a joke? It is almost identical to the other retention schemes in the country (think Cargojet). Flair management has not been promising anything as the company and ALPA are in negotiations and, by the way, negotiations did not begin until January because of the move from Unifor to ALPA and that sits squarely with the pilots. Negotiations are ongoing and we will get a deal once that it is complete. Comments about a pay LOU are ridiculous - it doesn't work that way. But the bonus certainly telegraphs the company's intention to pay competitively and I high doubt the ALPA team would have agreed to it if the negotiations were not going well.

If things were going well, we would have had a contract to vote on by now. So far, we are 200+ days into negotiations with no end in sight. Someone smarter than me would probably know the answer to this - isn't there a legal limit on the length of negotiations in Canada?

I think negotiations are going well from the company perspective. Every rumour I've heard hit the flight deck, ALPA is giving away the farm. Hope I'm wrong and yes, they are just rumours so far.

FO pay!!!!??? Why would we negotiate for FO pay? As it is the FO pay at Flair is the highest in the country for a 737 in the first 3 years. By the 3rd year every FO here will have been eligible for an upgrade and be in the left seat. The left seat progression is what is important. I also presume that the contract that will be signed will be under 5 years so teh FO pay is a battle for the next round of negotiations.

The bonus scheme is exactly that - bonus after 3 years. Effectively it means we are earning an extra $16,000 plus a year so what is there to complain about? The new contract should put captains in a competitive pay range so add in the bonus and we should be a great spot. If you plan to leave in 3 years or less why should you benefit. The rest of who stay will benefit.

If you talk with the negotiators they will tell you things are progressing well and the company has not dragged things along. If they were giving away the farm this would have been wrapped up long ago. Have some patience and respect for the ALPA team doing the work. Rumours do a dis-service to everyone.

[AirportCoffee]

The bonus scheme is exactly that - bonus after 3 years. Effectively it means we are earning an extra $16,000 plus a year so what is there to complain about?

Must be some good kool aid you guys have over there!

[Arnie Pye]

Rumour is 0%. Maybe I'm wrong...I hope that I'm wrong.

This is the only rumour out there regarding FO pay. I hope it is incorrect given that inflation just took away 10% of the take-home pay.

Why don’t we all just come back in 3 years and ask if the deal worked out . I’m thinking lots of those who were offered the deal won’t be around anyways because it’s not a whole lot of money to walk away from in the big picture.

If companies want people to stick around they need to stop using coercion, pay pilots more competitive with the rest of the world, and offer benefits that are more competitive with the rest of the world. Here in Canada that never happens, we just talk about how it seems like it is coming, or might happen.



If the pay is for the contributions of this summer, why are they waiting three years to pay it out? Next summer might be a new challenge, and might warrant a new bonus! Oh right… this is not for just this summer, this is for the next three summers. Doesn’t sound so juicy eh. The bonus is diluted, and we know in three years we will taste how watered down this junk really is. We just can’t see it yet.

I haven't ran into a single person that is impressed with the bonus scheme. the only people intent on collecting it are too old to go somewhere else and were going to stay in the first place.

I suspect it is a chess move intent on proving to the minister of labour that Flair tried their very hardest and just can't find qualified Canadian pilots. Therefore, they need to bring in TFW pilots and offer them a path to citizenship. All this will do is work to suppress WAWCON in the future.

It's a joke? It is almost identical to the other retention schemes in the country (think Cargojet). Flair management has not been promising anything as the company and ALPA are in negotiations and, by the way, negotiations did not begin until January because of the move from Unifor to ALPA and that sits squarely with the pilots. Negotiations are ongoing and we will get a deal once that it is complete. Comments about a pay LOU are ridiculous - it doesn't work that way. But the bonus certainly telegraphs the company's intention to pay competitively and I high doubt the ALPA team would have agreed to it if the negotiations were not going well.

If things were going well, we would have had a contract to vote on by now. So far, we are 200+ days into negotiations with no end in sight. Someone smarter than me would probably know the answer to this - isn't there a legal limit on the length of negotiations in Canada?

I think negotiations are going well from the company perspective. Every rumour I've heard hit the flight deck, ALPA is giving away the farm. Hope I'm wrong and yes, they are just rumours so far.

FO pay!!!!??? Why would we negotiate for FO pay? As it is the FO pay at Flair is the highest in the country for a 737 in the first 3 years. By the 3rd year every FO here will have been eligible for an upgrade and be in the left seat. The left seat progression is what is important. I also presume that the contract that will be signed will be under 5 years so teh FO pay is a battle for the next round of negotiations.

The bonus scheme is exactly that - bonus after 3 years. Effectively it means we are earning an extra $16,000 plus a year so what is there to complain about? The new contract should put captains in a competitive pay range so add in the bonus and we should be a great spot. If you plan to leave in 3 years or less why should you benefit. The rest of who stay will benefit.

If you talk with the negotiators they will tell you things are progressing well and the company has not dragged things along. If they were giving away the farm this would have been wrapped up long ago. Have some patience and respect for the ALPA team doing the work. Rumours do a dis-service to everyone.

You would negotiate FO pay because this is a contract negotiation and that is what you do - negotiate. You would want to address FO pay because inflation just gave them a 10% decrease in their purchasing power and because they are human beings who also have wives, kids and bills to provide for. You can't just argue that in 2019, they were the best paid FO's and never again touch the FO pay. Lynx has an accelerator clause in their contract so as soon as we negotiate our pay rate, they automatically get 10% more and Flair FO's are no longer the highest 737 FO in Canada. I'm sure you're aware that you can't pay tomorrow's bills with your future earnings 3 years from now when [if] you get upgraded

I'm glad you love the retention bonus. No one else does. Anyone under the age of 40 will continue to go to Air Canada. Any Captain with experience will go back to EK, QR, etc. The difference in pay and provident fund/retirement savings is way more than $50k. This doesn't reflect service to this point. It values the guy who starts with our 49th airplane the same as someone who has been with the company for the last 2.5 years and has helped take Flair from 1 airplane to 20. It works out to $320/pay cheque after taxes. Too little money, too far in the future (see above regarding paying tomorrow's bills with a pay cheque 3 years in the future). If you're ok with mediocrity, low pay and lip service, then Air Canada has 4 years of flat pay for you.

It isn't hard to find an airline out there that pays $50k more per year for a Captain. This bonus won't stop people from going somewhere that pays this each and every year or allows you to put $50k/year into retirement savings.

Can you guarantee that Flair will be around in 36 months? I hope it will be but I've been around long enough to know it isn't guaranteed. Since this is not negotiated in the collective agreement what happens to the bonus if we are bought out, merged with Lynx, enter into a recession and pull a JetsGo?

I respect the ALPA guys. I wouldn't want the job. I recently spoke with someone on the negotiating team. Got a political non-answer. There is a legal limit on how long negotiations can take and we blew by that long ago. First it was March, then the spring, then early summer. Someone is dragging this along. If it's not the company then I guess it's ...

[rudder]

If things were going well, we would have had a contract to vote on by now. So far, we are 200+ days into negotiations with no end in sight. Someone smarter than me would probably know the answer to this - isn't there a legal limit on the length of negotiations in Canada?

There are timelines contained in the Canada Labour Code. Normally, there is a time based trigger to proceed to conciliation with the assistance of FMCS. However, this step can be delayed subject to mutual consent.

If past the statutory negotiations timeline, either party is free to apply for conciliation.

[TFTMB heavy]

If things were going well, we would have had a contract to vote on by now. So far, we are 200+ days into negotiations with no end in sight. Someone smarter than me would probably know the answer to this - isn't there a legal limit on the length of negotiations in Canada?

There are timelines contained in the Canada Labour Code. Normally, there is a time based trigger to proceed to conciliation with the assistance of FMCS. However, this step can be delayed subject to mutual consent.

If past the statutory negotiations timeline, either party is free to apply for conciliation.

There is no limit on direct bargaining in Canada. Once a party is dissatisfied with progress they can file a notice of dispute with the Minister and he will appoint a conciliator. The conciliator will have a 60 day time limit unless both parties agree to extend. A smart negotiating committee/MEC will time it so the right to strike falls in a peak travel demand period.

More info here https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-soc ... ining.html

[Apestogetherstrong]

This is the only rumour out there regarding FO pay. I hope it is incorrect given that inflation just took away 10% of the take-home pay.



I haven't ran into a single person that is impressed with the bonus scheme. the only people intent on collecting it are too old to go somewhere else and were going to stay in the first place.

I suspect it is a chess move intent on proving to the minister of labour that Flair tried their very hardest and just can't find qualified Canadian pilots. Therefore, they need to bring in TFW pilots and offer them a path to citizenship. All this will do is work to suppress WAWCON in the future.



If things were going well, we would have had a contract to vote on by now. So far, we are 200+ days into negotiations with no end in sight. Someone smarter than me would probably know the answer to this - isn't there a legal limit on the length of negotiations in Canada?

I think negotiations are going well from the company perspective. Every rumour I've heard hit the flight deck, ALPA is giving away the farm. Hope I'm wrong and yes, they are just rumours so far.

FO pay!!!!??? Why would we negotiate for FO pay? As it is the FO pay at Flair is the highest in the country for a 737 in the first 3 years. By the 3rd year every FO here will have been eligible for an upgrade and be in the left seat. The left seat progression is what is important. I also presume that the contract that will be signed will be under 5 years so teh FO pay is a battle for the next round of negotiations.

The bonus scheme is exactly that - bonus after 3 years. Effectively it means we are earning an extra $16,000 plus a year so what is there to complain about? The new contract should put captains in a competitive pay range so add in the bonus and we should be a great spot. If you plan to leave in 3 years or less why should you benefit. The rest of who stay will benefit.

If you talk with the negotiators they will tell you things are progressing well and the company has not dragged things along. If they were giving away the farm this would have been wrapped up long ago. Have some patience and respect for the ALPA team doing the work. Rumours do a dis-service to everyone.

You would negotiate FO pay because this is a contract negotiation and that is what you do - negotiate. You would want to address FO pay because inflation just gave them a 10% decrease in their purchasing power and because they are human beings who also have wives, kids and bills to provide for. You can't just argue that in 2019, they were the best paid FO's and never again touch the FO pay. Lynx has an accelerator clause in their contract so as soon as we negotiate our pay rate, they automatically get 10% more and Flair FO's are no longer the highest 737 FO in Canada. I'm sure you're aware that you can't pay tomorrow's bills with your future earnings 3 years from now when [if] you get upgraded

I'm glad you love the retention bonus. No one else does. Anyone under the age of 40 will continue to go to Air Canada. Any Captain with experience will go back to EK, QR, etc. The difference in pay and provident fund/retirement savings is way more than $50k. This doesn't reflect service to this point. It values the guy who starts with our 49th airplane the same as someone who has been with the company for the last 2.5 years and has helped take Flair from 1 airplane to 20. It works out to $320/pay cheque after taxes. Too little money, too far in the future (see above regarding paying tomorrow's bills with a pay cheque 3 years in the future). If you're ok with mediocrity, low pay and lip service, then Air Canada has 4 years of flat pay for you.

It isn't hard to find an airline out there that pays $50k more per year for a Captain. This bonus won't stop people from going somewhere that pays this each and every year or allows you to put $50k/year into retirement savings.

Can you guarantee that Flair will be around in 36 months? I hope it will be but I've been around long enough to know it isn't guaranteed. Since this is not negotiated in the collective agreement what happens to the bonus if we are bought out, merged with Lynx, enter into a recession and pull a JetsGo?

I respect the ALPA guys. I wouldn't want the job. I recently spoke with someone on the negotiating team. Got a political non-answer. There is a legal limit on how long negotiations can take and we blew by that long ago. First it was March, then the spring, then early summer. Someone is dragging this along. If it's not the company then I guess it's ...

Agreed. FO pay needs to increase since A/C is getting rid of the flat pay and WJ is negotiating its new contract. If they decide to increase the pay, Flair FO’s would not have any reason to stay back. FO rate should be $90/hrmin Capt $160/hr min. Its not just the cost of inflation but also need to stay competitive.

[Apestogetherstrong]

This is the only rumour out there regarding FO pay. I hope it is incorrect given that inflation just took away 10% of the take-home pay.



I haven't ran into a single person that is impressed with the bonus scheme. the only people intent on collecting it are too old to go somewhere else and were going to stay in the first place.

I suspect it is a chess move intent on proving to the minister of labour that Flair tried their very hardest and just can't find qualified Canadian pilots. Therefore, they need to bring in TFW pilots and offer them a path to citizenship. All this will do is work to suppress WAWCON in the future.



If things were going well, we would have had a contract to vote on by now. So far, we are 200+ days into negotiations with no end in sight. Someone smarter than me would probably know the answer to this - isn't there a legal limit on the length of negotiations in Canada?

I think negotiations are going well from the company perspective. Every rumour I've heard hit the flight deck, ALPA is giving away the farm. Hope I'm wrong and yes, they are just rumours so far.

FO pay!!!!??? Why would we negotiate for FO pay? As it is the FO pay at Flair is the highest in the country for a 737 in the first 3 years. By the 3rd year every FO here will have been eligible for an upgrade and be in the left seat. The left seat progression is what is important. I also presume that the contract that will be signed will be under 5 years so teh FO pay is a battle for the next round of negotiations.

The bonus scheme is exactly that - bonus after 3 years. Effectively it means we are earning an extra $16,000 plus a year so what is there to complain about? The new contract should put captains in a competitive pay range so add in the bonus and we should be a great spot. If you plan to leave in 3 years or less why should you benefit. The rest of who stay will benefit.

If you talk with the negotiators they will tell you things are progressing well and the company has not dragged things along. If they were giving away the farm this would have been wrapped up long ago. Have some patience and respect for the ALPA team doing the work. Rumours do a dis-service to everyone.

You would negotiate FO pay because this is a contract negotiation and that is what you do - negotiate. You would want to address FO pay because inflation just gave them a 10% decrease in their purchasing power and because they are human beings who also have wives, kids and bills to provide for. You can't just argue that in 2019, they were the best paid FO's and never again touch the FO pay. Lynx has an accelerator clause in their contract so as soon as we negotiate our pay rate, they automatically get 10% more and Flair FO's are no longer the highest 737 FO in Canada. I'm sure you're aware that you can't pay tomorrow's bills with your future earnings 3 years from now when [if] you get upgraded

I'm glad you love the retention bonus. No one else does. Anyone under the age of 40 will continue to go to Air Canada. Any Captain with experience will go back to EK, QR, etc. The difference in pay and provident fund/retirement savings is way more than $50k. This doesn't reflect service to this point. It values the guy who starts with our 49th airplane the same as someone who has been with the company for the last 2.5 years and has helped take Flair from 1 airplane to 20. It works out to $320/pay cheque after taxes. Too little money, too far in the future (see above regarding paying tomorrow's bills with a pay cheque 3 years in the future). If you're ok with mediocrity, low pay and lip service, then Air Canada has 4 years of flat pay for you.

It isn't hard to find an airline out there that pays $50k more per year for a Captain. This bonus won't stop people from going somewhere that pays this each and every year or allows you to put $50k/year into retirement savings.

Can you guarantee that Flair will be around in 36 months? I hope it will be but I've been around long enough to know it isn't guaranteed. Since this is not negotiated in the collective agreement what happens to the bonus if we are bought out, merged with Lynx, enter into a recession and pull a JetsGo?

I respect the ALPA guys. I wouldn't want the job. I recently spoke with someone on the negotiating team. Got a political non-answer. There is a legal limit on how long negotiations can take and we blew by that long ago. First it was March, then the spring, then early summer. Someone is dragging this along. If it's not the company then I guess it's ...

Agreed. FO pay needs to increase since A/C is getting rid of the flat pay and WJ is negotiating its new contract. If they decide to increase the pay, Flair FO’s would not have any reason to stay back. FO rate should be $90/hrmin Capt $160/hr min. Its not just the cost of inflation but also need to stay competitive.

[pitottubey]

FO pay!!!!??? Why would we negotiate for FO pay? As it is the FO pay at Flair is the highest in the country for a 737 in the first 3 years. By the 3rd year every FO here will have been eligible for an upgrade and be in the left seat. The left seat progression is what is important. I also presume that the contract that will be signed will be under 5 years so teh FO pay is a battle for the next round of negotiations.

The bonus scheme is exactly that - bonus after 3 years. Effectively it means we are earning an extra $16,000 plus a year so what is there to complain about? The new contract should put captains in a competitive pay range so add in the bonus and we should be a great spot. If you plan to leave in 3 years or less why should you benefit. The rest of who stay will benefit.

If you talk with the negotiators they will tell you things are progressing well and the company has not dragged things along. If they were giving away the farm this would have been wrapped up long ago. Have some patience and respect for the ALPA team doing the work. Rumours do a dis-service to everyone.

You would negotiate FO pay because this is a contract negotiation and that is what you do - negotiate. You would want to address FO pay because inflation just gave them a 10% decrease in their purchasing power and because they are human beings who also have wives, kids and bills to provide for. You can't just argue that in 2019, they were the best paid FO's and never again touch the FO pay. Lynx has an accelerator clause in their contract so as soon as we negotiate our pay rate, they automatically get 10% more and Flair FO's are no longer the highest 737 FO in Canada. I'm sure you're aware that you can't pay tomorrow's bills with your future earnings 3 years from now when [if] you get upgraded

I'm glad you love the retention bonus. No one else does. Anyone under the age of 40 will continue to go to Air Canada. Any Captain with experience will go back to EK, QR, etc. The difference in pay and provident fund/retirement savings is way more than $50k. This doesn't reflect service to this point. It values the guy who starts with our 49th airplane the same as someone who has been with the company for the last 2.5 years and has helped take Flair from 1 airplane to 20. It works out to $320/pay cheque after taxes. Too little money, too far in the future (see above regarding paying tomorrow's bills with a pay cheque 3 years in the future). If you're ok with mediocrity, low pay and lip service, then Air Canada has 4 years of flat pay for you.

It isn't hard to find an airline out there that pays $50k more per year for a Captain. This bonus won't stop people from going somewhere that pays this each and every year or allows you to put $50k/year into retirement savings.

Can you guarantee that Flair will be around in 36 months? I hope it will be but I've been around long enough to know it isn't guaranteed. Since this is not negotiated in the collective agreement what happens to the bonus if we are bought out, merged with Lynx, enter into a recession and pull a JetsGo?

I respect the ALPA guys. I wouldn't want the job. I recently spoke with someone on the negotiating team. Got a political non-answer. There is a legal limit on how long negotiations can take and we blew by that long ago. First it was March, then the spring, then early summer. Someone is dragging this along. If it's not the company then I guess it's ...

Agreed. FO pay needs to increase since A/C is getting rid of the flat pay and WJ is negotiating its new contract. If they decide to increase the pay, Flair FO’s would not have any reason to stay back. FO rate should be $90/hrmin Capt $160/hr min. Its not just the cost of inflation but also need to stay competitive.

Wait AC is getting rid of the flat pay? Where can I see more information on this. Is this confirmed?

[TC.Enforcement]

I'm glad you love the retention bonus. No one else does. Anyone under the age of 40 will continue to go to Air Canada.

Speak for yourself. I love the bonus. I was already on planning on staying, so this is just free money. I'm well under 40 and have ZERO desire to go to AC. Many of my colleagues at my base have actually said the same thing. It's so tiring listening to pilots bitch about salary especially when we are already paid a significant fraction more then the general population for a job that quite frankly isn't that hard and doesn't have a difficult barrier to entry.

[Apestogetherstrong]

I'm glad you love the retention bonus. No one else does. Anyone under the age of 40 will continue to go to Air Canada.

Speak for yourself. I love the bonus. I was already on planning on staying, so this is just free money. I'm well under 40 and have ZERO desire to go to AC. Many of my colleagues at my base have actually said the same thing. It's so tiring listening to pilots bitch about salary especially when we are already paid a significant fraction more then the general population for a job that quite frankly isn't that hard and doesn't have a difficult barrier to entry.

Look at the salaries down south? Or even globally. Pilots bitching about salaries?? They are well within their right. Pilots must unite for better wages and working conditions. Does inflation mean nothing to you?

[lownslow]

Wait AC is getting rid of the flat pay?

LMAO no. I’ll believe it once people are collecting it, until then it’s hopeful rumour.

[Canadaflyer46]

I'm glad you love the retention bonus. No one else does. Anyone under the age of 40 will continue to go to Air Canada.

Speak for yourself. I love the bonus. I was already on planning on staying, so this is just free money. I'm well under 40 and have ZERO desire to go to AC. Many of my colleagues at my base have actually said the same thing. It's so tiring listening to pilots bitch about salary especially when we are already paid a significant fraction more then the general population for a job that quite frankly isn't that hard and doesn't have a difficult barrier to entry.

You have a bright future. You have management written all over you.
Completely missing the point we have third world salaries compared to the rest of the world. Why would those greedy pilots want to try and improve conditions eh. It’s an easy job. Get on with it

[Core]

I'm glad you love the retention bonus. No one else does. Anyone under the age of 40 will continue to go to Air Canada.

Speak for yourself. I love the bonus. I was already on planning on staying, so this is just free money. I'm well under 40 and have ZERO desire to go to AC. Many of my colleagues at my base have actually said the same thing. It's so tiring listening to pilots bitch about salary especially when we are already paid a significant fraction more then the general population for a job that quite frankly isn't that hard and doesn't have a difficult barrier to entry.

I don't even know what side of this pile to start shoveling first. Congratulations on making less than a welder... but more than a janitor, so you must be happy with that!! Please stay at Flair. Please.

[Jumbo744]

Immaturely posting on a public forum won't make the pay go up. If you're not happy, please leave. I am under 40, very happy at Flair and will never ever consider going to AC. 55k a year? I made that in 2 month here. Flair is not to blame for Canada's low salaries.

[rooster]

I'm glad you love the retention bonus. No one else does. Anyone under the age of 40 will continue to go to Air Canada.

Speak for yourself. I love the bonus. I was already on planning on staying, so this is just free money. I'm well under 40 and have ZERO desire to go to AC. Many of my colleagues at my base have actually said the same thing. It's so tiring listening to pilots bitch about salary especially when we are already paid a significant fraction more then the general population for a job that quite frankly isn't that hard and doesn't have a difficult barrier to entry.

I don't even know what side of this pile to start shoveling first. Congratulations on making less than a welder... but more than a janitor, so you must be happy with that!! Please stay at Flair. Please.

LOL!! Aren't all pilots in Canada basically making less than a welder? Bruh thinking he really did something with that insult

[Core]

LOL!! Aren't all pilots in Canada basically making less than a welder? Bruh thinking he really did something with that insult

Hardly all, but far too many, and if you don't see anything wrong with that, you're part of the problem bub! Nice response stating the obvious like it's the way it's supposed to be. Guys like you who just roll over and accept you're in the only country on the planet where most pilots makes less than an HVAC tech is why the industry is the way it is. And no, I don't drive in Canada anymore, hope you enjoy it, "Bruh".

[co-joe]

I don't even know what side of this pile to start shoveling first. Congratulations on making less than a welder... but more than a janitor, so you must be happy with that!! Please stay at Flair. Please.

Depends what welder you're talking about. Sure if you don't mind a life expectancy of 50, and life in camp. Pipeline welders make more than most airline pilots. Have at her, I have zero interest in laying on my back, in muck up to my ears, wearing FR cover alls, breathing toxic fumes, and dragging puddles 21 twelve hour days straight for any money. Most shop welders don't make much more than 60-80k a year.

[PilotZum]

I'm glad you love the retention bonus. No one else does. Anyone under the age of 40 will continue to go to Air Canada.

Speak for yourself. I love the bonus. I was already on planning on staying, so this is just free money. I'm well under 40 and have ZERO desire to go to AC. Many of my colleagues at my base have actually said the same thing. It's so tiring listening to pilots bitch about salary especially when we are already paid a significant fraction more then the general population for a job that quite frankly isn't that hard and doesn't have a difficult barrier to entry.

Wow... Value your profession for the love of god. We are one of the lowest paid pilots in the world if you consider cost of living. To think there are pilots out there getting paid minimum wage to make sure nobody dies in an airplane.

[Core]

I started out in Canada, I didn't make more than 80k in almost 10 years, so yes, less than a shop welder.

I would love to hear a bunch of you have this same conversation with any American regional FO's on a layover. They'll pay your entire bar tab because it wouldn't even make a dent in the wallet.

[rooster]

LOL!! Aren't all pilots in Canada basically making less than a welder? Bruh thinking he really did something with that insult

Hardly all, but far too many, and if you don't see anything wrong with that, you're part of the problem bub! Nice response stating the obvious like it's the way it's supposed to be. Guys like you who just roll over and accept you're in the only country on the planet where most pilots makes less than an HVAC tech is why the industry is the way it is. And no, I don't drive in Canada anymore, hope you enjoy it, "Bruh".

Where in my comment did I infer that I don't see anything wrong with the wage? Your interpretation of words is a little off, bub.