P4C members terminated

[Fanblade]

As for your assertion that P4C will take over the association, good luck with that. Who is going to run for election after this mess.

I didn't touch this initially because nothing had been announced.

As to your who would run question. You have your answer. In the fall you will get more answers.

I never asserted P4C would take over ACPA. Quite the contrary. The pilots will take over ACPA.

P4C is just a group of your colleagues working to try and get agents for change placed everywhere. They don't have to be P4C. Just like minded people working for a common goal. Some don't want to run under the banner. That's fine. Notice P4C ran no one against the YYZ chair. Why would they run an agent for change against an agent for change?

This isn't about P4C. It's about providing the membership an option if they are unhappy with ACPA. It's about creating a banner for those who are not sure who to vote for, yet want change. It's very difficult to know who stands for what. P4C makes the stance clear.

It's about unifying like minded pilots.

[Transition9er2]

As for your assertion that P4C will take over the association, good luck with that. Who is going to run for election after this mess.

I didn't touch this initially because nothing had been announced.

As to your who would run question. You have your answer. In the fall you will get more answers.

I never asserted P4C would take over ACPA. Quite the contrary. The pilots will take over ACPA.

P4C is just a group of your colleagues working to try and get agents for change placed everywhere. They don't have to be P4C. Just like minded people working for a common goal. Some don't want to run under the banner. That's fine. Notice P4C ran no one against the YYZ chair. Why would they run an agent for change against an agent for change?

This isn't about P4C. It's about providing the membership an option if they are unhappy with ACPA. It's about creating a banner for those who are not sure who to vote for, yet want change. It's very difficult to know who stands for what. P4C makes the stance clear.

It's about unifying like minded pilots.

+1

Well said.

[Dockjock]

Been here 15 years. Looking forward to change I’ll vote for it all. Same same ain’t workin for me.

[Fanblade]

As for your assertion that P4C will take over the association, good luck with that. Who is going to run for election after this mess.

I didn't touch this initially because nothing had been announced.

As to your who would run question. You have your answer. In the fall you will get more answers.

I never asserted P4C would take over ACPA. Quite the contrary. The pilots will take over ACPA.

P4C is just a group of your colleagues working to try and get agents for change placed everywhere. They don't have to be P4C. Just like minded people working for a common goal. Some don't want to run under the banner. That's fine. Notice P4C ran no one against the YYZ chair. Why would they run an agent for change against an agent for change?

This isn't about P4C. It's about providing the membership an option if they are unhappy with ACPA. It's about creating a banner for those who are not sure who to vote for, yet want change. It's very difficult to know who stands for what. P4C makes the stance clear.

It's about unifying like minded pilots.

AC pilots now have control.

[Fanblade]

October 2020

Tough not to call that a sweep for the anti-p4c crew. The 1 P4C candidate that ‘won’ retained his seat by acclamation.
P4C is wildly less popular than the forums would have you believe.
I believe the membership has delivered a clear message tonight that they will not accept ALPA at any cost and they are not willing to burn the ACPA headquarters to the ground.

This battle took over two years. That was the beginning.

But really this is just the end of the beginning. Now there are expectations to fill and even more work.

LEAST WE FORGET WE NEED OUR TERMINATED SOLDIERS BACK ON PAYROLL.

Two of your peers paid the ultimate price for vocally pushing for change. The old guard let them wither on the vine in a gesture of good riddance.

[BingBong]

Well one was unjustifiably terminated with a cause that has holes big enough you could fly a 747 through it…slam dunk legal win for him…and he should rightfully be the MEC Chair or CEO by now

The other was allegedly caught badmouthing the company on social media…while on furlough...sounds like grounds for dismissal to me.

[SportingRifle.]

October 2020

Tough not to call that a sweep for the anti-p4c crew. The 1 P4C candidate that ‘won’ retained his seat by acclamation.
P4C is wildly less popular than the forums would have you believe.
I believe the membership has delivered a clear message tonight that they will not accept ALPA at any cost and they are not willing to burn the ACPA headquarters to the ground.

That did NOT age well

Kind of like my unconditional support for the YVR Base Chairs despite leading ACPA off a cliff. Something they said would be avoided by their presence.

Oops

[FL030]

Well one was unjustifiably terminated with a cause that has holes big enough you could fly a 747 through it…slam dunk legal win for him…and he should rightfully be the MEC Chair or CEO by now

The other was allegedly caught badmouthing the company on social media…while on furlough...sounds like grounds for dismissal to me.

Can you please elaborate on the cause? I want to make sure that I don't fly through this hole too!

[Stu Pidasso]

Bad News - none of them are coming back. Do you know how incredibly difficult it is to get terminated, we have so many stories to tell of Pilots that
(by any measure of common sense) should have been fired.

The Legal Department will have this buttoned up air tight.

The one notorious loud mouth was on track to be fired before Covid and the Furloughs. To be that stupid while on probation is in a league by itself.

[Fanblade]

Bad News - none of them are coming back. Do you know how incredibly difficult it is to get terminated, we have so many stories to tell of Pilots that
(by any measure of common sense) should have been fired.

The Legal Department will have this buttoned up air tight.

The one notorious loud mouth was on track to be fired before Covid and the Furloughs. To be that stupid while on probation is in a league by itself.

Stu,

Things for you to consider while we wait for an outcome.

1) Bad mouthing your union is not the same as bad mouthing your employer.

2) Although normally a company makes absolutely certain their termination is air tight to avoid liability. Every once in a while they will terminate someone simply to set an example. They do so on the belief that the cost of making the person whole later, is cheaper in the long run. You know like thinking they can scare a union drive back under a rock.

3) It is common for companies to fire people during a union drive. That is essentially what is going on currently, a union drive. The company does not want ALPA. They don’t even want a revitalized ACPA. Westjet fired three during their union drive and they all got their jobs back. And that’s nothing. How many did Cargojet fire?

4) In this case the company fired one person from the MEC and one just appointed to the NC. Both fired while ACPA was trying to negotiate the latest failed MOA. Both high profile people pushing for ALPA and opposed to the MOA

5) When dealing with individual termination cases arbitrators usually lean toward the employee if there is any doubt. Leadership roles within the union drive and the timing of a very controversial MOA, are in and of themselves, likely enough doubt.

[Freshredmeat]

This whole termination situation seems suspect at best

Why is a union negotiating at all, particularly permanent concessions, with sketchy terminations happening

[Old fella]

Bad News - none of them are coming back. Do you know how incredibly difficult it is to get terminated, we have so many stories to tell of Pilots that
(by any measure of common sense) should have been fired.

The Legal Department will have this buttoned up air tight.

The one notorious loud mouth was on track to be fired before Covid and the Furloughs. To be that stupid while on probation is in a league by itself.

Stu,

Things for you to consider while we wait for an outcome.

1) Bad mouthing your union is not the same as bad mouthing your employer.

2) Although normally a company makes absolutely certain their termination is air tight to avoid liability. Every once in a while they will terminate someone simply to set an example. They do so on the belief that the cost of making the person whole later, is cheaper in the long run. You know like thinking they can scare a union drive back under a rock.

3) It is common for companies to fire people during a union drive. That is essentially what is going on at AC currently, a union drive. The company does not want ALPA. They don’t even want a revitalized ACPA. Westjet fired three during their union drive and they all got their jobs back. And that’s nothing. How many did Cargojet fire?

4) In this case the company fired one person from the MEC and one just appointed to the NC. Both fired while ACPA was trying to negotiate the latest failed MOA. Both high profile people pushing for ALPA and opposed to the MOA

5) When dealing with individual termination cases arbitrators usually lean toward the employee if there is any doubt. Leadership roles within the union drive and the timing of a very controversial MOA, are in and of themselves, likely enough doubt.

I bet AC Mgt are gunning for your name as well those other illustrious common - taters


I am sure their(AC Mgt) spy(multiple user name) are lurking on this site.

[Fanblade]

Is that an observation or another thinly veiled threat?

There have been no shortage of those.

[Old fella]

Is that an observation or another thinly veiled threat?

There have been no shortage of those.

Observation, what else could it be from an outside observer. I am as far removed from AC as I am The Vatican, I know as much about AC Operations as I do Nuclear Physics even though I have first yr University Physics - albeit with a less than stellar grade.

[bobcatdriver]

Well one was unjustifiably terminated with a cause that has holes big enough you could fly a 747 through it…slam dunk legal win for him…and he should rightfully be the MEC Chair or CEO by now

The other was allegedly caught badmouthing the company on social media…while on furlough...sounds like grounds for dismissal to me.

Which one was caught distributing sensitive company documents?

[YesMassaPayson]

Which one was caught distributing sensitive company documents?

Neither.

[Stu Pidasso]

I am (unfortunately) pretty well versed on the termination process, was involved in the Association for a few years. Not a pleasant experience, even if you believe the individual deserves it. Tough to think through the family impact of throwing away such a great career.

These ones won't see Arbitration, if you're as well connected as you appear to be, you will know why.

Cheers

[alkaseltzer]

Which one was caught distributing sensitive company documents?

Neither.

Oh please.

[faculties11]

What's the back story for those who are not appraised of the situation with respect to Pilots 4 Change advocating against ACPA? And why are guys getting terminated?