Westjet Send Notice to Open Contract Negotiations. Could this start a rising tide to beat AC?

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canadian_aviator_4
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Westjet Send Notice to Open Contract Negotiations. Could this start a rising tide to beat AC?

Post by canadian_aviator_4 »

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Re: Westjet Send Notice to Open Contract Negotiations. Could this start a rising tide to beat AC?

Post by link821 »

Let’s hope
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Canadaflyer46
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Re: Westjet Send Notice to Open Contract Negotiations. Could this start a rising tide to beat AC?

Post by Canadaflyer46 »

Doubtful IMHO. WJ’s new business strategy is to pull mainline out of the east and halt their 787 expansion saying they need to focus on fighting for the scraps at the bottom with the other ULCCs in the West. I can see the company refusing to recognize AC salaries as comparison and instead insist on using Flair/Lynx as pay scales for ‘standard industry rates’.
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Re: Westjet Send Notice to Open Contract Negotiations. Could this start a rising tide to beat AC?

Post by YC87DRVR »

Canadaflyer46 wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:06 am Doubtful IMHO. WJ’s new business strategy is to pull mainline out of the east and halt their 787 expansion saying they need to focus on fighting for the scraps at the bottom with the other ULCCs in the West. I can see the company refusing to recognize AC salaries as comparison and instead insist on using Flair/Lynx as pay scales for ‘standard industry rates’.
Bingo!

It wasn’t long ago they came out publicly admitting their growth plans failed and are changing course. (Spun in the media as “getting back to our roots and focusing on the West).
There is zero reason to think they would ever want to compare themselves to AC, especially when compensating employees. I’d imagine this round of negotiations will be focused on their new goal of dominating the low cost market. They may dangle a few carrots here and there, but nothing of significant will come and the trade off’s (cause they’ll want something in return) will probably be scheduling and sunwing merger related.
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Re: Westjet Send Notice to Open Contract Negotiations. Could this start a rising tide to beat AC?

Post by negative_g »

YC87DRVR wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:00 pm
Canadaflyer46 wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:06 am Doubtful IMHO. WJ’s new business strategy is to pull mainline out of the east and halt their 787 expansion saying they need to focus on fighting for the scraps at the bottom with the other ULCCs in the West. I can see the company refusing to recognize AC salaries as comparison and instead insist on using Flair/Lynx as pay scales for ‘standard industry rates’.
Bingo!

It wasn’t long ago they came out publicly admitting their growth plans failed and are changing course. (Spun in the media as “getting back to our roots and focusing on the West).
There is zero reason to think they would ever want to compare themselves to AC, especially when compensating employees. I’d imagine this round of negotiations will be focused on their new goal of dominating the low cost market. They may dangle a few carrots here and there, but nothing of significant will come and the trade off’s (cause they’ll want something in return) will probably be scheduling and sunwing merger related.
Why would they want to compare to AC?

They need to compare to Spirit, Frontier, Sun Country, JetBlue, Southwest etc. All of which pay SUBSTANTIALLY more even without factoring exchange rate. And have superior work rules than any Canadian airline.
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Re: Westjet Send Notice to Open Contract Negotiations. Could this start a rising tide to beat AC?

Post by YC87DRVR »

negative_g wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:52 pm
YC87DRVR wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:00 pm
Canadaflyer46 wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:06 am Doubtful IMHO. WJ’s new business strategy is to pull mainline out of the east and halt their 787 expansion saying they need to focus on fighting for the scraps at the bottom with the other ULCCs in the West. I can see the company refusing to recognize AC salaries as comparison and instead insist on using Flair/Lynx as pay scales for ‘standard industry rates’.
Bingo!

It wasn’t long ago they came out publicly admitting their growth plans failed and are changing course. (Spun in the media as “getting back to our roots and focusing on the West).
There is zero reason to think they would ever want to compare themselves to AC, especially when compensating employees. I’d imagine this round of negotiations will be focused on their new goal of dominating the low cost market. They may dangle a few carrots here and there, but nothing of significant will come and the trade off’s (cause they’ll want something in return) will probably be scheduling and sunwing merger related.
Why would they want to compare to AC?

They need to compare to Spirit, Frontier, Sun Country, JetBlue, Southwest etc. All of which pay SUBSTANTIALLY more even without factoring exchange rate. And have superior work rules than any Canadian airline.
Well first re-read my post, I said they would NOT want to compare themselves with AC.

Secondly, why in the world would you think they would want to match with a bunch of American carriers that are in a completely different market and situation?

I’m sure WJ management is sitting around saying “let’s not try to match the bigger more diverse carrier in our market(AC) or our competition (flair, jetlines, lynx). Let’s go look at completely different carriers in different markets that pay double or triple and let’s match them.
Keep dreaming.
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Re: Westjet Send Notice to Open Contract Negotiations. Could this start a rising tide to beat AC?

Post by Bede »

negative_g wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:52 pmAnd have superior work rules than any Canadian airline.
Can you provide some examples of their superior work rules?
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Re: Westjet Send Notice to Open Contract Negotiations. Could this start a rising tide to beat AC?

Post by CaptainHaddock »

Flair and Lynx are definitely not WJ’s comparator. Swoop is (and is already the lowest paid 737 gig in Canada-probably NA).
WJ may be pulling back in the media-but they are still two class airline with codeshares and all the fixings. Management may not want it to be compared to AC(but the last arbitrator did), but it is a lot closer to AC then the ULCC’s
Running in the background is the pilot shortage. The previous arbitrated contract just left everything simmering (smouldering?) in the pilot group for the past 4 years. WJ took that 4 years to push every angle of the contract/LOU to expand Swoop and replace much of WJ’s flying after expressly saying Swoop would be complimentary not cannibalistic of WJ.
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Re: Westjet Send Notice to Open Contract Negotiations. Could this start a rising tide to beat AC?

Post by Mostly Harmless »

Here is the plan, as laid out by the executive team:

WestJet is dead. There will be zero growth at WestJet (AKA The Premium Brand) and likely the brand will be allowed to shrivel and die after being sucked dry by a corporate vampire.

Swoop and Sunwing. All growth will be at these two places. They will get free rent at the company HQ, free dispatch, free maintenance, free crew scheduling and route planning... all placed on the books of WestJet. WestJet will be loaded with debt and leases (No longer owns any assets) until the vampires have sucked it dry and then some.

They are being quite open about most of this in their videos to the staff.

There is a pilot shortage, and while the rest of the world tries to attract talent by throwing money at pilots, WestJet is meeting this challenge by attempting to Half your wages. It's a bold strategy Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for them.
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Last edited by Mostly Harmless on Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Westjet Send Notice to Open Contract Negotiations. Could this start a rising tide to beat AC?

Post by goingmissed »

Mostly Harmless wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:32 am Here is the plan, as laid out by the executive team:

WestJet is dead. There will be zero growth at WestJet (AKA The Premium Brand) and likely the brand will be allowed to shrivel and die after being sucked dry by a corporate vampire.

Swoop and Sunwing. All growth will be at these two places. They will get free rent at the company HQ, free dispatch, free maintenance, free crew scheduling and route planning... all at placed on the books of WestJet. WestJet will be loaded with debt and leases (No longer owns any assets) until the vampires have sucked it dry and then some.

They are being quite open about most of this in their videos to the staff.

There is a pilot shortage, and while the rest of the world tries to attract talent by throwing money at pilots, WestJet is meeting this challenge by attempting to Half your wages. It's a bold strategy Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for them.
Upper management was put in place by Onex. We are all aware that Onex buys companies so that they can flip it and make money.

The actions taking place now are not to set the WestJet group up for long term success, but instead to make Onex short term profit. They will sell off the profitable portions of the company for more than they bought the group for and sell the rest off for scraps.
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Re: Westjet Send Notice to Open Contract Negotiations. Could this start a rising tide to beat AC?

Post by Mostly Harmless »

goingmissed wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:36 am Upper management was put in place by Onex. We are all aware that Onex buys companies so that they can flip it and make money.

The actions taking place now are not to set the WestJet group up for long term success, but instead to make Onex short term profit. They will sell off the profitable portions of the company for more than they bought the group for and sell the rest off for scraps.
No different from the Clive era starting with GGG?
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Re: Westjet Send Notice to Open Contract Negotiations. Could this start a rising tide to beat AC?

Post by goingmissed »

Mostly Harmless wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:26 am
goingmissed wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:36 am Upper management was put in place by Onex. We are all aware that Onex buys companies so that they can flip it and make money.

The actions taking place now are not to set the WestJet group up for long term success, but instead to make Onex short term profit. They will sell off the profitable portions of the company for more than they bought the group for and sell the rest off for scraps.
No different from the Clive era starting with GGG?
I'm not versed in CB's reign.
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Re: Westjet Send Notice to Open Contract Negotiations. Could this start a rising tide to beat AC?

Post by Mach1 »

goingmissed wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 2:38 pm I'm not versed in CB's reign.
Oh... he's still very much in charge. The cake that is the continuation of CB's policies and attitudes towards the pilot group for daring to defy him was iced with he pictures of the new CEO having drinks with CB.
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