Forgot to Extend the Gear Thread

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rookiepilot
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Re: Forgot to Extend the Gear Thread

Post by rookiepilot »

challenger_nami wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 7:32 am
I fully agree with you @RookiePilot that posting on this forum is a public affair.

I fully stand behind my posts and am glad to be challenged about what I write. That Keeps me accountable, and that is the way I like to be.

I don’t usually/ever whine about professional criticism with reason.... being trolled by idio*s is a totally different thing; I tend to deflate trolls with my data and logic approach.

I challenge you to show me an example of an instance when I whined about my “garbage posts” being criticized. I will be glad to address it, and potentially deflate you :)


.
Gee, this whole thread? Where's your hard data proving a conclusion?
viewtopic.php?f=118&t=145532

Failure to answer direct questions as to the source of your claimed information-- also qualifies.

You and Pelmet would make a good pair of twins.

You both poorly impersonate TSB investigators, but the difference is -- that role actually requires a lot of hard work.

Posting unsubstantiated crap here, doesn't take any work at all.
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Re: Forgot to Extend the Gear Thread

Post by challenger_nami »

rookiepilot wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 7:54 am
challenger_nami wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 7:32 am
I fully agree with you @RookiePilot that posting on this forum is a public affair.

I fully stand behind my posts and am glad to be challenged about what I write. That Keeps me accountable, and that is the way I like to be.

I don’t usually/ever whine about professional criticism with reason.... being trolled by idio*s is a totally different thing; I tend to deflate trolls with my data and logic approach.

I challenge you to show me an example of an instance when I whined about my “garbage posts” being criticized. I will be glad to address it, and potentially deflate you :)


.
Gee, this whole thread? Where's your hard data proving a conclusion?
viewtopic.php?f=118&t=145532

Failure to answer direct questions as to the source of your claimed information-- also qualifies.
You are drifting from the topic of this thread, LA-250 Renegade.

I surgically deflated multiple trolls single handedly and shredded their flawed arguments on that Beech Musketeer thread to the extent that the Moderator had to run to their rescue to expunge their amusingly idio*ic assertions from the history to protect their dignity.

Now, if you still have unanswered questions about my assertions on that Beech Musketeer thread, post your questions under that thread and you may get a response if I deem your assertions worthy of a response. Refer to Challenger’s Rules of Engagement for more info.

Keep in mind that when you refresh that thread, you are putting salt on the healing wounds of those deflated trolls who are trying to recover and put that thread behind them.

*************************

Back to the topic of this thread: LA-250 Gear Up Landing in Ontario.

@Digits and @RookiePilot
Sounds like you guys already lost this discussion.

Do you 2 REALLY think the LA-250 Renegade’s gear up incident on this thread was a catastrophic mechanical failure and NOT pilot error?

.
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Last edited by challenger_nami on Sun May 30, 2021 10:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Forgot to Extend the Gear Thread

Post by digits_ »

I don’t know, which is why I didn’t write anything about that. I am only replying to your comment regarding an amphibian pilot landing on a lake with gear issues. That is unlikely if they have a choice. A partial gear on a water landing means you will be swimming and might be unconscious while leaving the airplane. A partial gear on a land landing means you might damage metal.

So don’t use that argument as proof that it wasn’t an intentional gear up landing.
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Re: Forgot to Extend the Gear Thread

Post by pelmet »

rookiepilot wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 6:09 pm
pelmet wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 4:32 pm
challenger_nami wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 9:34 am However, had this pilot properly verified the landing gear position on short final, his/her ego would remain less bruised.
And all of our insurance costs would be lower.
How do you both know with absolute certainty this wasn't a mechanical failure? Do you have verified information not posted above?
Well, assuming the report is accurate, perhaps the pilot had a mechanical failure. Of course, that would make the report of getting some 'local volunteers' to lift the plane up and manually lower the gear for another flight look even worse than what appears to be than just skipping a proper inspection for damage after a gear up landing with serviceable gear. That would mean he flew with a damaged aircraft and inoperative systems back to YQA. Perhaps someone volunteered a ferry permit, or called TC that Saturday(May 22) for a quick approval.

Once again, it is easy to see why insurance costs are the way they are.

We do have a regular poster here from the area and knowledgeable about these aircraft, perhaps he will provide some more info.
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Re: Forgot to Extend the Gear Thread

Post by pelmet »

On 24 May 2021, a privately registered Piper PA-24-250 Comanche aircraft, (registration C-FSCS),
was operating on a daytime local VFR flight from Gore Bay-Manitoulin Airport, Ontario (CYZE) with
one pilot onboard. While attempting a touch and go to Runway 02/20 at Manitoulin East Municipal
Airport, Ontario (CYEM), the aircraft landed with the landing gear retracted. The aircraft came to
rest on the runway. There were no injuries.
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Re: Forgot to Extend the Gear Thread

Post by valleyboy »

So we have established that "shit happens" and the "gear up club " members suffered from a major brain fart. Unfortunately, as much as AVcan dissects the problem, nothing will change.

Possibly a very simple mod would be the requirement of all retractable gear a/c need to have a flap position warning tied into gear position. It seems forgetting flaps are not as prevalent as gear up landings. Possibly an airspeed warning circuit as well. As always ever thing seems to be reduced to the lowest common denominator.

I know these is incorporated in large aircraft but in the older light aircraft this might not be the case.
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Re: Forgot to Extend the Gear Thread

Post by challenger_nami »

.

If I had a close connection/proximity/information to any incident I would recuse myself from discussing that incident.

Examples of the above are: knowing the pilot, being a passenger in the incident aircraft, having provided flight training to the incident pilot, being the AME of the incident aircraft, OR simply frequenting and chatting with the incident pilot in the same airport cafe. In cases like above, I would not comment on the details of that incident.

As a matter of fact, I would probably stop posting anything for a while, and I would simply be a reader in this forum till that incident all goes away.

Judges, lawyers and law enforcement do the same. If they are close to a case, they recuse themselves.

That is the right thing to do.

.
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Re: Forgot to Extend the Gear Thread

Post by pelmet »

Thought I might include Forgot to retract the gear as well in this thread.

From Google Translate......

C-GUAY, an amphibious Cessna 208 operated by Air Tunilik Inc, was flying under the rules of
visual flight from Puvurnituq airport, QC (CYPX) to RexNord mining camp
(60 ° 16'49.8 "N 075 ° 21'17.5" W), QC with only one pilot on board. The wheels do not have
retracted before landing, when the floats hit the water, the aircraft tipped over.
The pilot was able to evacuate the aircraft. Witnesses to the accident went to help the pilot with
using a boat. There were no injuries.
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Re: Forgot to Extend the Gear Thread

Post by pelmet »

C-FFWG, a privately registered Beech 35-33, was conducting a VFR flight from Souris Glenwood
Industrial Air Park (CJX5), MB to Virden/R.J. (Bob) Andrew Field Regional (CYVD), MB, with the
pilot and 1 passenger on board. In the downwind for Runway 08 at CYVD, the pilot selected the
gear switch to the down position and then selected 2/3 flaps during the left base. The aircraft
subsequently landed Runway 08 with the gear in the retracted position. Both occupants were
uninjured and the aircraft sustained substantial damage to the flaps, belly skin, engine, and
propeller.

It was reported that during the recovery of the aircraft, the master switch was turned on and the
landing gear started lowering.
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Re: Forgot to Extend the Gear Thread

Post by pelmet »

C-GNDB, a privately registered Beech B36TC aircraft departed a private aerodrome located 18
miles NW of Swift Current (YYN), SK with the pilot and 1 passenger on board. Shortly after takeoff,
the aircraft returned to the aerodrome for non-technical reasons. The aircraft landed with the gear
unintentionally in the retracted position. There were no injuries. The aircraft was substantially
damaged.
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Re: Forgot to Extend the Gear Thread

Post by pelmet »

C-GTEP, a Brampton Flight Centre Piper Seminole PA-44-180 experienced a main gear collapse
upon landing on Runway 26 at the Brampton-Caledon Airport (CNC3), ON. After completion of pre-
landing checks and confirmation that the gear was down and locked, the pilots conducted a normal
approach and flare. During the flare, with the throttles at idle, the aircraft settled onto the runway
and scrapping noises were heard. The aircraft continued to settle, veered to the left and came to
rest nose up on the left edge of the runway. The aircraft was shut down. The pilot exit door was
jammed and the pilots waited until first responders arrived to open the door. There were no injuries.
The nose gear was found fully extended and the main gear were found collapsed. The aircraft
damage includes LH propeller/engine due to propeller strikes, LH and RH flaps due to ground
contact, tail tie-down and belly antennas.

The aircraft was removed from the runway and inspected. A functional check of the gear was
completed with no anomalies found.
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Re: Forgot to Extend the Gear Thread

Post by Meatservo »

I'm sure you meant to write "SCRAPING sounds", but in this case "scrapping sounds" is probably also appropriate.
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Re: Forgot to Extend the Gear Thread

Post by pelmet »

I think distractions are a big part of forgetting to extend the gear. That being said, extending the gear to slow down instead of a power reduction first might be a good first choice. That gets the gear stuff out of the way and if you forget everything else on the checklist, things will likely work out......

C-FWTC, a privately registered Piper PA28R-180 was conducting touch-and-go on runway 33 at
Toronto Buttonville Municipal Airport (CYKZ), ON. While coming for a third landing on the
downwind part of the circuit, the pilot reported a slower aircraft joining the downwind in front. The
pilot subsequently reduced power to maintain separation and continued for a shallow approach to
maintain visual contact preceding traffic. The gear warning activated just before contacting the
runway when power was reduced for landing. The aircraft contact the runway on its belly damaging
the propeller, the strobe light and an antenna. The aircraft was lifted and the gear extended before
towed off the runway. The pilot, sole occupant onboard, was uninjured.
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Re: Forgot to Extend the Gear Thread

Post by pelmet »

C-FPVR, a privately registered, amateur built, Searey amphibious airplane, was conducting a
visual flight rules trip from Nakusp (CAQ5), BC, to Revelstoke (CYRV), BC, with only the pilot on
board. The aircraft landed wheels up on Runway 30 and skidded on its keel for approximately 285
feet. The aircraft remained upright and there was only minor damage. The pilot egressed and
contacted the police and Transport Canada (TC). First responders arrived but here were no
injuries. A notice to airmen (NOTAM) was issued for CYRV.

The aircraft was lifted from the runway and the landing gear was extended. After an examination,
the aircraft departed CYRV.
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Re: Forgot to Extend the Gear Thread

Post by pelmet »

C-FHWX, a Harvard 2 aircraft, operated by The Canadian Harvard Aircraft Association, was
completing its 6th circuit at the Tillsonburg Airport (CYTB), ON. During the landing, the aircraft
touched down on Runway 32 with the landing gear retracted. There were no injuries to the two
occupants, but the aircraft was substantially damaged. It was reported that the warning horn for the
landing gear did not operate.
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Re: Forgot to Extend the Gear Thread

Post by pelmet »

Obviously, this pilot did not forget the gear. But it is an interesting scenario in a difficult situation......


C-GGZZ, a privately owned Rockwell Aero Commander 112, was conducting a local flight from the
Midland/Huronia Airport (CYEE), Ontario, with only the pilot on board. Shortly after becoming
airborne from runway 16, following landing gear retraction, the pilot detected an issue with the
engine and elected to land on the remaining runway. He selected the landing gear down and
attempted to keep the aircraft off the runway to allow time for gear extension, but the aircraft
touched down with only the left main gear extended. The aircraft slid to a stop about 30 feet
beyond the runway surface. There was damage to the propeller, nose gear doors, the right wingtip,
and the right wing leading edge, which had struck two runway end lights during the overrun. The
pilot was uninjured.
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Re: Forgot to Extend the Gear Thread

Post by pelmet »

On 15 May 2023, an Excel Flight Training Inc Piper PA-23-250 (registration C-FVIY) was
conducting multi-engine flight training under visual flight rules. On board was a flight instructor and
a student pilot. Several circuits had been successfully carried out. While conducting a simulated
single-engine landing to Runway 24, the flight instructor and student pilot detected an odd vibration
from the nosewheel on initial touchdown and attempted to go around. The flight instructor pitched
the nose up in an attempt to raise the nose landing gear to assist with acceleration; however, the
aircraft settled back on the runway and landed on the aircraft's belly. The aircraft came to a stop
approximately halfway down the runway. The flight instructor and student pilot evacuated the
aircraft, uninjured. The aircraft's propellers were bent and there was damage to the underside of
the aircraft.

Post-occurrence inspection and testing found no faults with the landing gear. This, in conjunction
with CCTV footage of the final moments suggest that the landing gear (i.e., nosewheel) had not
completed its down cycle at the time of initial touchdown.
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Re: Forgot to Extend the Gear Thread

Post by pelmet »

Another Save from the Dunker course. One does have to be careful with that gear warning system. I flew a C180 with it and one time we were on final for a water landing with the gear up. But the approach has you fly low over the shoreline just prior to touching down on the water. Therefore, you get a gear up warning while over the land because it thinks you will be landing on land instead of water(based on laser detection).


C-FRSB, a privately operated amateur-built Bushmaster Model B aircraft on amphibian floats was
on a VFR flight from Greenwood Airport, NS (CYZX) to Lake George, NS. When the aircraft
departed CYZX the landing gear was not retracted. Enroute to destination the pilot elected to do a
touch and go on Aylesford Lake, NS and when the aircraft touched down it nosed over
immediately, and the cabin space began to fill with water. The pilot was not injured and unstrapped
the safety harness and utilized techniques learned from a recent floatplane dunker training course
to exit the aircraft. Once outside and clear of the aircraft the pilot inflated the life vest and swam
approximately one kilometer to the shoreline. The pilot then utilized a cellphone to contact the duty
officer at CFB Greenwood and informed them of the accident. The 121.5 MHz emergency locator
transmitter did not activate.

C-FRSB was equipped with a Wipaire gear position warning system that consisted of four (4) hard
surface green colored indicator lights and four (4) water surface blue colored indicator lights.
Additionally, C-FRSB contained an aural gear advisory that indicated the gear position once the
throttle was reduced below a set value.

On the occurrence landing, the aircraft checklist and
GUMP’s check, which were normally done, were not completed. The aural gear advisory, which
stated that the gear was down, had been immediately silenced by the pilot prior to touchdown.
The aircraft sustained water damage and impact damage to the windshield, left wing, tail and
empennage.
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