Should Air Canada be nationalized

[co-joe]

Let's also nationalize Nav Canada while we're at it. Nav Canada is a gong show to the point that I feel that we're going to see airplanes fall out of the sky due to an utter and complete lack of staffing within Canada's ATC system...

Also, for everyone in here who will invariably come out to argue how privatization will make things better - show me how Nav Canada is supposedly better than the FAA's ATC system?

Two words: Descend Via,...

This, without question is the number one thing that Canada needs. Descend via the star/ climb via the sid. It makes the Canadian ATC system sound like a government make work project by comparison. Half the reason for flow delays into yvr is arrival can only handle 4 aircraft at once and they spend the whole time giving step downs 2000' at a time, and can barely keep up. What's the point of even printing crossing restrictions on the star if you have to wait for atc to assign them one at a time?

[negative_g]

Let's also nationalize Nav Canada while we're at it. Nav Canada is a gong show to the point that I feel that we're going to see airplanes fall out of the sky due to an utter and complete lack of staffing within Canada's ATC system...

Also, for everyone in here who will invariably come out to argue how privatization will make things better - show me how Nav Canada is supposedly better than the FAA's ATC system?

Two words: Descend Via,...

This, without question is the number one thing that Canada needs. Descend via the star/ climb via the sid. It makes the Canadian ATC system sound like a government make work project by comparison. Half the reason for flow delays into yvr is arrival can only handle 4 aircraft at once and they spend the whole time giving step downs 2000' at a time, and can barely keep up. What's the point of even printing crossing restrictions on the star if you have to wait for atc to assign them one at a time?

And it's not like they don't know how. I've been cleared for the ILS 26R over Stave before (more than once). Early early morning arrival, but still.

[rooster]

And yet again the thread drifts back to ATC practices. You guys are funny....

No, Air Canada should NEVER be nationalized. Terrible idea for the reasons previously posted.

[thenoflyzone]

Considering I've answered the OP's question already, let's answer some ATC comments on here.

Gotta be honest, whatever they (FAA) are using for weather is way better than Canada. I feel a lot more confident getting vectors from the Americans in terminal airspace, vs Canadian controllers who repeatedly vector into significant weather.

ATC radars aren't optimized to display weather. They're optimized to show aircraft returns and transponders. That's true both in Canada and the US.

This being said, we have the severe weather covered. We get very accurate lighting strike feed on our screens from Environment Canada, so when there are severe thunderstorms in the area, our screens are littered with lightning strikes (usually very close to each other), so we have a pretty good idea of where pilots don't want to go. And even though we see areas of moderate to severe precipitation on our screens as well, it's not as reliable as the weather radars aircraft have, which are designed specifically for that function. This is why a lot of ATC ask pilots where they want to go when there are buildups, and once a pattern is established, we usually follow it with the other aircraft, especially if the route the pilots are taking more or lese coincide with the weather we see on our screens. (It does happen !)

Let's also nationalize Nav Canada while we're at it. Nav Canada is a gong show to the point that I feel that we're going to see airplanes fall out of the sky due to an utter and complete lack of staffing within Canada's ATC system...

Also, for everyone in here who will invariably come out to argue how privatization will make things better - show me how Nav Canada is supposedly better than the FAA's ATC system?

Two words: Descend Via,...

This, without question is the number one thing that Canada needs. Descend via the star/ climb via the sid. It makes the Canadian ATC system sound like a government make work project by comparison. Half the reason for flow delays into yvr is arrival can only handle 4 aircraft at once and they spend the whole time giving step downs 2000' at a time, and can barely keep up. What's the point of even printing crossing restrictions on the star if you have to wait for atc to assign them one at a time?

NavCan implemented ICAO format "descend via" in 2017. It was a flop! Altitude deviations everywhere and increased workload for ATC. And so NavCan backtracked.

FAA doesn't follow the ICAO format. Their procedures are slightly different.

https://nbaa.org/aircraft-operations/co ... raseology/

As for the YVR delays, I can't really comment on it, since I'm not based out west. But I do know this. Even if you are listening in on the frequency, you don't have the full picture of what is going on, and the reasons behind it.

I do know for the better part of the last 2 years, YVR's runways have been certified non-precision only, due to standby power issues. That has implications on the approach minimas, but also on arrival rates.

Current airport arrival rate (AAR) for YVR is set for 28 (see link below). That's way below their usual, which can go as high as 44.

https://extranetapps.navcanada.ca/ois/ois.aspx

Here are the NOTAMS in question explaining the runway issues.

(C3124/22 NOTAMN
A) CYVR B) 2209280700 C) 2209281100
E) RWY 08L/26R AND RWY 08R/26L CERTIFIED NON PRECISION ONLY, DUE
STANDBY PWR U/S)

(C3125/22 NOTAMN
A) CYVR B) 2209280700 C) 2209281100
E) TKOF RWY 08L/26R AND RWY 08R/26L NOT AUTH WHEN RVR BLW 1200FT DUE
STANDBY PWR U/S)

[co-joe]

That makes it sound like Navcan did a poor job of implementing what should be a very simple procedural change. It also sounds like Navcan lays the blame on Canadian pilots inability to meet crossing restrictions yet those same pilots have no trouble doing it south of the border. Hmmm

Not saying YVR is slacking, far from it. When one guy is running north and south clearance, apron, ground, and tower frequencies and talking to float traffic as well, simultaneously you know something is grossly wrong with their staffing levels. No idea where the blame is but it's nuts for anyone to think that can go on indefinitely. Somebody's gonna get a hurt real bad...

The flow control in yvr doesn't seem to be wx related, clear and a million weather and flow hits just keep coming. My money's that it's a staffing level thing.

[negative_g]

Flow in YVR is weather related... just not in the classic sense.

When it's sunny and nice mid June there's flow because all the ATC controllers book off.

[QKZXKV]

N-O