A Very Political Airplane - Chinese COMAC C919

[Topspin]

Surprised, search function yields no discussion on this as of yet.

I'm curious as to what insiders have to say about it?

My thinking, is that it will only really sell well with Chinese state owned carriers. The competition complaints should get interesting...?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C919

The Comac C919 is a planned 168-190 seat narrow-body airliner to be built by the Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (Comac).

It will be the largest commercial airliner designed and built in China since the defunct Shanghai Y-10. Its first flight is expected to take place in 2014, with deliveries scheduled for 2016. The C919 forms part of China's long-term goal to break Airbus and Boeing's duopoly, and will compete against Airbus A320 family and the Boeing 737 Next Generation.

On September 8, 2009, during the Asian Aerospace 2009, Comac unveiled a scale-model of the C919, stating that the engine supplier will be selected by the end of 2009. Construction of the nose section of the aircraft commenced on 2 September, 2009.

[Invertago]

Recall in 5...4...3...2...1

Too much lead paint.

I wouldn't fly a Chinese built jet anytime soon. The can build lots, they can build cheap, they can build big, but they don't have a great reputation for building quality.

[Panama Jack]

A few years ago the thought of a Brazilian jet being a serious contender would have produced gails of laughter. Not anymore. In the 50's "Made in Japan" was associated with cheap quality plastic junk. Not anymore, either. China is up and coming. I lived in the country in 1995-96 and today, only a decade-and-a-half later, the country is almost unrecognizable to me. China still needs to address quality issues however during the last couple of decades they have successfully implemented a steep learning curve. I am not predicting that the ARJ-21 and C919 become serious contenders outside of China (they may though), only that I think that Chinese aircraft will become real competitors sooner rather than later.

I am not sure which competition complaints you are complaining about, with the exception of an extention of the ones that are typical between Airbus-Boeing and Bombardier-Embraer.

[Expat]

Recall in 5...4...3...2...1

Too much lead paint.

I wouldn't fly a Chinese built jet anytime soon. The can build lots, they can build cheap, they can build big, but they don't have a great reputation for building quality.

40 years ago we said the samething about the Japanese...

[moocow]

Should we compare this to their regular cheap product like Walmart goods? If they ironed out space rockets, I wouldn't rule out their Commie airplane. Have anyone heard about Airbus complaining about the Chinese made A320?

[Expat]

China is already is the aircraft export market...

http://www.aero-news.net/news/military. ... &Dynamic=1

This is only the start, I think...

[Expat]

It is interesting to see that the US embargoes are fueling production of weapons and aircraft in Russia, India and China. And these guys have customers!

[Topspin]

I am not sure which competition complaints you are complaining about, with the exception of an extention of the ones that are typical between Airbus-Boeing and Bombardier-Embraer.

Sorry, perhaps poorly worded. I offer no complaint. My admittedly inexperienced opinion was, given the level of fighting regarding government funding directed at aircraft manufacturers, a state owned manufacturer really ought not show up quietly without a fight, no?

I brought this here to see what the reaction was. I'm curious as to what parts I don't see.

[Panama Jack]

It won't surprise me, Topspin, if this topic will be raised by competitors because this is the type of things that competitors will do. It will be interesting to see how the Chinese respond to the hipocrisy (especially if the flak comes from Europeans). I expect that they will simply shrug their shoulders.

Overall though, one will wonder whether it will even have any type of serious ramifications besides name calling. In any case, things will get interesting. Many analysts predict that China will become the World's largest economy by the year 2040 (less than 30 years from now). Perhaps you should enroll your kids here:

http://www.yatsan.org/

[Invertago]

Recall in 5...4...3...2...1

Too much lead paint.

I wouldn't fly a Chinese built jet anytime soon. The can build lots, they can build cheap, they can build big, but they don't have a great reputation for building quality.

40 years ago we said the samething about the Japanese...

Which is why I mentioned "anytime soon" 40 years will give me a lot of time to re-evaluate the situation. Chine needs a corporate culture overhaul, I think they need time change their priorities and add some quality control. I wouldn't have bought a Korean car 10 years ago either, but I would today, probably will this year actually.

[ScudRunner]

It will be the largest commercial airliner designed and built in China since the defunct Shanghai Y-10.

Just like any good commi you just copy a successful model.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comac_ARJ21

Although ACAC refers to the ARJ21 as "designed by Chinese with completely independent intellectual property rights",[citation needed] [11][12][13]it is being built using tooling which was originally provided by the McDonnell Douglas Corporation for licence-production of the MD-90 in China. Consequently, it bears a strong resemblance to the DC-9 family of aircraft, with an identical cabin cross section, nose profile and tail.

COMAC ARJ21

DC-9


First Chinese Built Airbus 320 Delivered
http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre/pr ... na_EN.html

I wonder where they got the plans for the C919?

[Panama Jack]

Just like any good commi you just copy a successful model.

"Imitation is the sincerest of flattery."
-Charles Caleb Colton (1780-1832)

You forgot to mention:

"An all-new supercritical wing, which will have a sweepback of 25 degrees and be fitted with winglets to improve aerodynamic performance"

Avionics are quite different too. The flight deck is fitted with Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21 avionics and FMS 4200 flight management system.



Not your daddy's Greasy-Nine or Boeing 717.

Will be interesting to see the quality of the manuals (hopefully not in "chinglish.")



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinglish

[Panama Jack]

Oh, I'm glad! It could have been Heathrow, Pearson or Mumbai instead!

[xsbank]

That cockpit looks a LOT like an RJ, with cable-operated controls and hydraulics - same disconnects, flight spoiler lever etc. Either you have the wrong cockpit photo or they are buying parts from Bombardier.

[AME 283]

Suggest you pilots wake up and smell the roses
It is all based on dollars and cents, and the flying public want to fly for nothing
That is why heavy maintenance is contracted to third world countries, cheap labor, minimal safety requirements, low overhead, SMS not mandated, TC oversight is non existent, and the list goes on

As soon as the Chinese and Indians from India get trained, some one will declare a pilot shortage and we will import cheap trained labor

The world is changing

In a few years our pilots will be replaced with a computer chip !!

[Panama Jack]

AME 283! I think you just described the Walmart business model!

[Expat]

AME 283! I think you just described the Walmart business model!

You are right. But what is amazing is the difference in quality between what you find at Walmart, and what is being dumped in bazars accross the world. The Chinese can build good quality products, if asked to do so, like in the Walmart case.

[Commonwealth]

Topic Bump

The C919 was certified airworthy last month. Does anyone have some working knowledge of the aircraft? The Chinese do not have a reputation for innovation but what is the story here?
The discussion from 12 years ago raised concerns about quality. Are these concerns still valid?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... bNsydVoyuy

[co-joe]

Only 7 built since 2015? Not exactly changing the landscape or anything.

Where is Panama Jack now. Haven't seen that name in years.

[Big Pistons Forever]

The airplane is completely reliant on Western technology. Given the increasing hostility between China and the US I can't see the US government encouraging American or other Western companies co-operation with COMAC.
I think they are going to have great difficult building this airplane in quantity

Be interesting to see if any of these wind up in Russia....