DEC

[ant_321]

Out of curiosity, is Sunwing still leaning on this?



It's an archaic rule, but if it's still in the CBA it gives the company an out to hire whomever they want. F8 had the same rule since our Unifor CBA was basically a carbon copy of theirs, but the company decided that with a better training program they could lower the requirements significantly.

Yes it’s still in place. If you spend a couple years as an FO you can upgrade with 4000TT. That seems pretty reasonable to me. Most people aren’t even close to being ready to be a captain with that little time.

I'm sorry, but did you just say, that with 4000 total time, and 2000 hours on type, people aren't ready to upgrade?

For sure. Saying “most” may have been a little strong worded, but a significant amount of people are not ready to be a captain on a 737 with 4000hrs. Either way, most people being awarded upgrades have significantly more time than the min.

[Aspiredtofly]

Anyone who can post payscale for sunwings updated

[daedalusx]

Anyone who can post payscale for sunwings updated

It’s about three fiddy.

Just search for the lowest paid 737 job in North America ... that’s pretty much what it is... tied with Swoop.
CBA 3 is available online and it should be pretty close to CBA 4 except I believe MMG was higher on CBA 3. There used to be decent compensation from the European and domestic deployments but in the current economical climate, I’m no so sure I’d be joining Sunwing expecting a summer deployment ... especially in the context of a possible WJ merge. Either way, there’s much better paying jobs right now such as Flair, CJ and probably even Porter. At least the lifestyle is better than Swoop.

That was posted on another thread and is pretty accurate although I think Flair’s should be increasing soon with the next round of negos.

Porter 195-E2 @ 80 MMG
122K to 190K for CA (12 Year Scale)
61K to 104K for FO (10 Year Scale)

Air Transat A321 @ 80 MMG
148K to 208K CA
61K to 116K FO

Sunwing 737-800 @ 75 MMG
113K to 183K
55K to 93K

Flair 737-800 @ 80 MMG
115K to 170K
67K to 95K

Swoop 737-800 @ 75 MMG
100K to 127K (3 Year Scale)
54K to 74K (3 Year Scale)

[Tbayer2021]

Anyone who can post payscale for sunwings updated

It’s about three fiddy.

Just search for the lowest paid 737 job in North America ... that’s pretty much what it is... tied with Swoop.
CBA 3 is available online and it should be pretty close to CBA 4 except I believe MMG was higher on CBA 3. There used to be decent compensation from the European and domestic deployments but in the current economical climate, I’m no so sure I’d be joining Sunwing expecting a summer deployment ... especially in the context of a possible WJ merge. Either way, there’s much better paying jobs right now such as Flair, CJ and probably even Porter. At least the lifestyle is better than Swoop.

That was posted on another thread and is pretty accurate although I think Flair’s should be increasing soon with the next round of negos.

Porter 195-E2 @ 80 MMG
122K to 190K for CA (12 Year Scale)
61K to 104K for FO (10 Year Scale)

Air Transat A321 @ 80 MMG
148K to 208K CA
61K to 116K FO

Sunwing 737-800 @ 75 MMG
113K to 183K
55K to 93K

Flair 737-800 @ 80 MMG
115K to 170K
67K to 95K

Swoop 737-800 @ 75 MMG
100K to 127K (3 Year Scale)
54K to 74K (3 Year Scale)

The Transat payscale is off for both the CPT and FOs.

62.6K to 150.5K for FO
184.2K to 244.4K for CPT

The contract extension is up in 2025 and that year the pay is as follows

66.1K to 158.9K for FO
194.5K to 258.0K for CPT

A321 and A330 pilots get paid the same at TS.

[Aspiredtofly]

Anyone who can post payscale for sunwings updated

It’s about three fiddy.

Just search for the lowest paid 737 job in North America ... that’s pretty much what it is... tied with Swoop.
CBA 3 is available online and it should be pretty close to CBA 4 except I believe MMG was higher on CBA 3. There used to be decent compensation from the European and domestic deployments but in the current economical climate, I’m no so sure I’d be joining Sunwing expecting a summer deployment ... especially in the context of a possible WJ merge. Either way, there’s much better paying jobs right now such as Flair, CJ and probably even Porter. At least the lifestyle is better than Swoop.

That was posted on another thread and is pretty accurate although I think Flair’s should be increasing soon with the next round of negos.

Porter 195-E2 @ 80 MMG
122K to 190K for CA (12 Year Scale)
61K to 104K for FO (10 Year Scale)

Air Transat A321 @ 80 MMG
148K to 208K CA
61K to 116K FO

Sunwing 737-800 @ 75 MMG
113K to 183K
55K to 93K

Flair 737-800 @ 80 MMG
115K to 170K
67K to 95K

Swoop 737-800 @ 75 MMG
100K to 127K (3 Year Scale)
54K to 74K (3 Year Scale)

The Transat payscale is off for both the CPT and FOs.

62.6K to 150.5K for FO
184.2K to 244.4K for CPT

The contract extension is up in 2025 and that year the pay is as follows

66.1K to 158.9K for FO
194.5K to 258.0K for CPT

A321 and A330 pilots get paid the same at TS.

Yeah narrow body pay is eliminated. So everyone's on widebody pay now

[frog]

Sunwing pay is terrible.
However quality of life is great.
The question is how all this is going to change with the merger.

[fruz]

Sunwing pay is terrible.
However quality of life is great.
The question is how all this is going to change with the merger.

The pay is low. Morale is low. Management is proceeding ahead with training foreigners to work here with higher pay. Future deployments are uncertain and relationship with management is the most toxic it's every been. There's more reasons to leave Sunwing than to join.

[Tbayer2021]

Sunwing pay is terrible.
However quality of life is great.
The question is how all this is going to change with the merger.

The pay is low. Morale is low. Management is proceeding ahead with training foreigners to work here with higher pay. Future deployments are uncertain and relationship with management is the most toxic it's every been. There's more reasons to leave Sunwing than to join.

Yeah but the lifestyle is so good, you can actually get a second job to make ends meet.

[daedalusx]

Sunwing pay is terrible.
However quality of life is great.
The question is how all this is going to change with the merger.

The pay is low. Morale is low. Management is proceeding ahead with training foreigners to work here with higher pay. Future deployments are uncertain and relationship with management is the most toxic it's every been. There's more reasons to leave Sunwing than to join.

Yeah but the lifestyle is so good, you can actually get a second job to make ends meet.

I don’t think a 737 driver with > 5000 hours should have to work at skip the dishes to make ends meet, but that’s just me. Maybe I’m lazy but I’d rather spend my time away from flying with my family.

[MaxAuto]

Yes it’s still in place. If you spend a couple years as an FO you can upgrade with 4000TT. That seems pretty reasonable to me. Most people aren’t even close to being ready to be a captain with that little time.

I'm sorry, but did you just say, that with 4000 total time, and 2000 hours on type, people aren't ready to upgrade?

For sure. Saying “most” may have been a little strong worded, but a significant amount of people are not ready to be a captain on a 737 with 4000hrs. Either way, most people being awarded upgrades have significantly more time than the min.

It also depends on the type of operations and area of operations the 737-800 is utilized in. Flying mostly domestic is different than flying long 5 to 7hr flights to multiple countries over water and over mountainous terrain in the middle of the night in a charter type operation. Thens there's European operations with all there weird double DME arcs and slam dunk approaches into airports in the Greek islands.

[Tbayer2021]

The pay is low. Morale is low. Management is proceeding ahead with training foreigners to work here with higher pay. Future deployments are uncertain and relationship with management is the most toxic it's every been. There's more reasons to leave Sunwing than to join.

Yeah but the lifestyle is so good, you can actually get a second job to make ends meet.

I don’t think a 737 driver with > 5000 hours should have to work at skip the dishes to make ends meet, but that’s just me. Maybe I’m lazy but I’d rather spend my time away from flying with my family.

That was sarcasm, deadalusx. I figured a joke about it would fit well since they keep bringing up lifestyle.

[daedalusx]

Yeah but the lifestyle is so good, you can actually get a second job to make ends meet.

I don’t think a 737 driver with > 5000 hours should have to work at skip the dishes to make ends meet, but that’s just me. Maybe I’m lazy but I’d rather spend my time away from flying with my family.

That was sarcasm, deadalusx. I figured a joke about it would fit well since they keep bringing up lifestyle.

I completely missed it but only because there’s been so many similar posts on other threads normalizing getting a part time job on the side.

[fruz]

Well,

This company once used to be a good lifestyle carrier balancing work and free time. But thats done now as there are way too many other problems with this company to tout lifestyle as a reason to choose Sunwing. I got the sarcasm, but believe it or not there are pilots working here with second jobs in the service industry to make ends meet. Very sad.

[Kingair200]

is it possible or any past experince of having someone with 5000+ and few thousand right seat 705 jet experience to get hired as DEC?

[rudder]

is it possible or any past experince of having someone with 5000+ and few thousand right seat 705 jet experience to get hired as DEC?

As I understand it, SWG has a ‘matrix’ for DEC. Normally PIC 705 >100,000lbs required. Can earn credit in-house in right seat towards +100,000lbs time. I could see a 705 jet CA (75000lbs+) potentially getting a look. But it would depend on the quality of the applicant pool.

[frog]

Here are all the requirements for DEC and FO

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/pilo ... bdomain=ca

I think they're getting pretty close to the bottom of the list for the upgrades. So DEC is a possibility.

What You’ll Need
Must have Canadian Airline Transport Pilot License / Frozen ATPL or CPL with IATRA written.
Must have a valid Category 1 Medical Certificate.
Must have a valid Transport Canada Group 1 Instrument Rating.
Must have the ability to hold a valid RAIC.
Must be a Canadian Citizen, have a Permanent Resident of Canada or applicable visas.
First Officer – Minimum 2000 hours total time fixed wing.
Direct Entry Captain – Minimum 5000 hours Command time.
Excellent interpersonal skills, positive work ethic and possess a safety above all attitude.
No Accidents / Incidents / Violations in last 3 years.

Good luck

[Kingair200]

Here are all the requirements for DEC and FO

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/pilo ... bdomain=ca

I think they're getting pretty close to the bottom of the list for the upgrades. So DEC is a possibility.

What You’ll Need
Must have Canadian Airline Transport Pilot License / Frozen ATPL or CPL with IATRA written.
Must have a valid Category 1 Medical Certificate.
Must have a valid Transport Canada Group 1 Instrument Rating.
Must have the ability to hold a valid RAIC.
Must be a Canadian Citizen, have a Permanent Resident of Canada or applicable visas.
First Officer – Minimum 2000 hours total time fixed wing.
Direct Entry Captain – Minimum 5000 hours Command time.
Excellent interpersonal skills, positive work ethic and possess a safety above all attitude.
No Accidents / Incidents / Violations in last 3 years.

Good luck

thanks for your reply, so with the cbc saying uprade requires 5000 tt and 2000 on 705 jet, does that apply to direct entry capt as well? or dec requires 5000 pic as listed in the posting above.

[cdnavater]

Here are all the requirements for DEC and FO

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/pilo ... bdomain=ca

I think they're getting pretty close to the bottom of the list for the upgrades. So DEC is a possibility.

What You’ll Need
Must have Canadian Airline Transport Pilot License / Frozen ATPL or CPL with IATRA written.
Must have a valid Category 1 Medical Certificate.
Must have a valid Transport Canada Group 1 Instrument Rating.
Must have the ability to hold a valid RAIC.
Must be a Canadian Citizen, have a Permanent Resident of Canada or applicable visas.
First Officer – Minimum 2000 hours total time fixed wing.
Direct Entry Captain – Minimum 5000 hours Command time.
Excellent interpersonal skills, positive work ethic and possess a safety above all attitude.
No Accidents / Incidents / Violations in last 3 years.

Good luck

thanks for your reply, so with the cbc saying uprade requires 5000 tt and 2000 on 705 jet, does that apply to direct entry capt as well? or dec requires 5000 pic as listed in the posting above.

Given the internal upgrade requirements, I would guess “Command” time is in Command of a jet over 100,000lbs for a DEC, not 5000 pic on light or medium turbo props but that’s just a guess, I have no inside information.

[frog]

As internal requirement goes, you don't need a single hour of JET pic to upgrade. DEC seems to be a different story.