Lets put some pressure on

[goingmissed]

If you want to put pressure on management, start contacting them. They cannot claim that they do not know if they are constantly being reminded about the issues.

...

That sounds risky and could be counter productive, piss off someone in management and it could bite you in the butt. A united front is what's needed. Things like work to rule, not taking any OT, taking the max allowed sick days, and not going the extra mile to save money on gas definitely do get noticed by bean counters. Obviously still put safety first though.

What you are asking for is illegal job action.

What I’m suggesting is safe if you’re not an asshole to management. Tell them what you are seeing on the line. They cannot punish you for reporting issues.

[digits_]

If you want to put pressure on management, start contacting them. They cannot claim that they do not know if they are constantly being reminded about the issues.

...

That sounds risky and could be counter productive, piss off someone in management and it could bite you in the butt. A united front is what's needed. Things like work to rule, not taking any OT, taking the max allowed sick days, and not going the extra mile to save money on gas definitely do get noticed by bean counters. Obviously still put safety first though.

What you are asking for is illegal job action.

What I’m suggesting is safe if you’re not an asshole to management. Tell them what you are seeing on the line. They cannot punish you for reporting issues.

With the exception of the sick days, how are the other things illegal job action?

[goingmissed]

With the exception of the sick days, how are the other things illegal job action?

According to the Board, the following activities may also constitute unlawful strikes:

a ban on, or concerted refusal to work overtime, even if in some cases the collective agreement provides for individual voluntary overtime;

http://www.cirb-ccri.gc.ca/eic/site/047 ... 00104.html

[digits_]

With the exception of the sick days, how are the other things illegal job action?

According to the Board, the following activities may also constitute unlawful strikes:

a ban on, or concerted refusal to work overtime, even if in some cases the collective agreement provides for individual voluntary overtime;

http://www.cirb-ccri.gc.ca/eic/site/047 ... 00104.html

Thanks! Interesting info.

I'm curious how someone could get in trouble for refusing to work overtime (if the collective agreement allows you to turn it down) or stick to the collective agreement to a T though.

If it's organised, then sure, the organizers and participants could get in trouble. But if a company pisses of its employees, and gradually more and more decline voluntary overtime...? It would be difficult to call that an unlawful strike imo.

[goingmissed]

Thanks! Interesting info.

I'm curious how someone could get in trouble for refusing to work overtime (if the collective agreement allows you to turn it down) or stick to the collective agreement to a T though.

If it's organised, then sure, the organizers and participants could get in trouble. But if a company pisses of its employees, and gradually more and more decline voluntary overtime...? It would be difficult to call that an unlawful strike imo.

Correct, but this post explicitly called for it.

I will be clear to all reading this post:

Opentime is voluntary. You can choose to take it or leave it. Do not suggest to others to engage in job action unless explicitly told to do so by the union. In the event of legal job action being organized, you will be informed through official means. A Canada is not one of those means.

[JBI]

With the exception of the sick days, how are the other things illegal job action?

According to the Board, the following activities may also constitute unlawful strikes:

a ban on, or concerted refusal to work overtime, even if in some cases the collective agreement provides for individual voluntary overtime;

http://www.cirb-ccri.gc.ca/eic/site/047 ... 00104.html

Thanks! Interesting info.

I'm curious how someone could get in trouble for refusing to work overtime (if the collective agreement allows you to turn it down) or stick to the collective agreement to a T though.

If it's organised, then sure, the organizers and participants could get in trouble. But if a company pisses of its employees, and gradually more and more decline voluntary overtime...? It would be difficult to call that an unlawful strike imo.

That's the thing, unions are actually in a pretty tough position when it comes to things like this. Back in 2010 with the Harper Conservative's in power, it was very clear that they would legislate the Air Canada Pilots back to work if there was a strike or job action. See page 131-132 of the linked Article https://www.rankandfile.ca/wp-content/u ... ckouts.pdf On April 13, 2010, 150 AC pilots called in sick instead of the average 50 to 70. Even though ACPA made it very clear that they did not know about nor plan the "sick out", the CIRB ordered that it was a violation of the Federal Government's legislation and was job action.

In the US, the labour laws are different but what constitutes legal job action is similar. Spirit Airline Pilots, without ALPA's knowledge, organized a plan to not pick up overtime and even used social media to name pilots who did (to then try and get them not to pick up Open Time). Spirit not only obtained an injunction on the action, but ALPA was fined and basically had to put out Comms saying "pilots should be picking up OT" even though it was not organized by ALPA. https://skift.com/2017/05/08/spirit-air ... f-flights/

The other real issue is that if pilots are found to be involved in such organizing or agreeing to it, they could be disciplined. So unions, whether it be ALPA/ACPA or somewhere else are in a difficult position when not in a legal strike situation (or in a legal strike situation but the government of the day threatens return to work legislation). The union and their leaders don't want to be fined or have to pay the Company dues money nor do they want individual members disciplined for such actions.

Not picking up Open Time, Not doing single engine taxiing, not assisting beyond your basic cockpit duties are all things that, if organized, could be considered job action. All these items are personal choices and it is very very important that they remain so and that Pilots follow the AOM/FOM and Contract.

Now, all this changes if, after Unsuccessful Contract Negotiations and a successful strike vote, a union and its members end up in a legal strike position. While a full work stoppage is obviously the most powerful and most well known use of this power, there are sometimes situations where a union instead proposes some lesser job action like no overtime. That's why, even if you don't agree with 100% of what your union does, when it comes to contract negotiations, it's very important to be unified as a group.

I can definitely empathize with those who would be in favour of such actions prior to being in a legal strike position and from a union member's perspective I can see why this would be considered unfair. At the same time, those of us at unionized Canadian Airlines have way more rights than folks who go to Cathay, Emirates or Qatar where they can fire you for pretty much any reason they want.

[Apestogetherstrong]

New rates soon

[Bede]

If you want to put pressure on management, start contacting them. They cannot claim that they do not know if they are constantly being reminded about the issues.

From the top (message all!):
CEO (AVH)
COO/EVP (DP)
VP Flight Ops (JA)
Chief Pilot (JV, TB)
LOM (CM, AG)

Explain how you feel, what you're seeing, and what you need the company to do to improve. Be clear and don't be an ass.

There are some pilots who are already emailing management, but the more pilots that express their views, the more effect it has.

Generally it's best to let your union speak for you.

[goingmissed]

Generally it's best to let your union speak for you.

Listen in to the All Pilot Calls.

[rooster]

With the exception of the sick days, how are the other things illegal job action?

According to the Board, the following activities may also constitute unlawful strikes:

a ban on, or concerted refusal to work overtime, even if in some cases the collective agreement provides for individual voluntary overtime;

http://www.cirb-ccri.gc.ca/eic/site/047 ... 00104.html

THat would be pretty hard to prove. One could say they got tired of working the extra over time due to personal reasons. One could site safety while operating a flight that burns more fuel than one normally would save. One could use the full extent of their sick days and there literally isn't an entity on this planet that will contest a sick call.

While work to rule may be defined as illegal, it is SO hard to prove. If the collective unites in that front, there isn't anything any entity can do to stop people from:

booking off
conducting full approaches
not doing single engine taxis
not picking up overtime

Get the idea? Work to rules is a work around to a strike. Companies know this, unions know this, IRB knows this. So the only thing they can do is put it in their rules and regulations as a deterrent.

[goingmissed]

With the exception of the sick days, how are the other things illegal job action?

According to the Board, the following activities may also constitute unlawful strikes:

a ban on, or concerted refusal to work overtime, even if in some cases the collective agreement provides for individual voluntary overtime;

http://www.cirb-ccri.gc.ca/eic/site/047 ... 00104.html

THat would be pretty hard to prove. One could say they got tired of working the extra over time due to personal reasons. One could site safety while operating a flight that burns more fuel than one normally would save. One could use the full extent of their sick days and there literally isn't an entity on this planet that will contest a sick call.

While work to rule may be defined as illegal, it is SO hard to prove. If the collective unites in that front, there isn't anything any entity can do to stop people from:

booking off
conducting full approaches
not doing single engine taxis
not picking up overtime

Get the idea? Work to rules is a work around to a strike. Companies know this, unions know this, IRB knows this. So the only thing they can do is put it in their rules and regulations as a deterrent.

With the new "Attendance Policy Manual" that's coming out today, it seems they may be trying to posture themselves to punish those who the company thinks is abusing sick days.

[digits_]

http://www.cirb-ccri.gc.ca/eic/site/047 ... 00104.html

THat would be pretty hard to prove. One could say they got tired of working the extra over time due to personal reasons. One could site safety while operating a flight that burns more fuel than one normally would save. One could use the full extent of their sick days and there literally isn't an entity on this planet that will contest a sick call.

While work to rule may be defined as illegal, it is SO hard to prove. If the collective unites in that front, there isn't anything any entity can do to stop people from:

booking off
conducting full approaches
not doing single engine taxis
not picking up overtime

Get the idea? Work to rules is a work around to a strike. Companies know this, unions know this, IRB knows this. So the only thing they can do is put it in their rules and regulations as a deterrent.

With the new "Attendance Policy Manual" that's coming out today, it seems they may be trying to posture themselves to punish those who the company thinks is abusing sick days.

"WE NEED MORE PILOTS AND WE WANT TO STOP PEOPLE FROM LEAVING SO WE WILL FIRE YOU IF YOU CALL IN SICK!" kind of thing?