When ALPA says 'Where should we set our bar?'

Discuss topics relating to Air Canada.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

User avatar
Bede
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4427
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:52 am

Re: When ALPA says 'Where should we set our bar?'

Post by Bede »

negroni wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 7:21 am Sorry, where exactly will the airlines find 5000+ atpl pilots overnight? And have them trained and ready to fly?
5000+ pilots? No where.
A few hundred pilots to operate a skeleton network? TFW, scabs, managers, picket crossers, charter airlines, etc. They can cut out the least profitable routes and keep a skeleton network going for a bit. Now add in the pissed off travelling public and a government that wants to get re-elected and willing to make your life miserable...

Now may I flip the question? If you're wildcatting en masse, where are 5000+ pilots going to find enough money to put food on the table? You may find that a corporation with deep pockets can outlast your will to strike.
---------- ADS -----------
 
negroni
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:16 pm

Re: When ALPA says 'Where should we set our bar?'

Post by negroni »

See the thing is I managed to survive almost two years on layoff. If anything covid layoffs showed some of the lowest paid pilots at AC that you can make do if you need to, especially if the result is a significantly improved contract. Short term pain long term gain. A few hundred pilots might be able to keep YYZ-YVR/YYZ-YUL going, but not much else and for how long? A few days? A week at most? The money is made on the overseas flying. A skeleton crew and network ain't going to cut it. And if the Liberals actually pass the anti-scab legislation then that's another checkmark in our favour.

We have all the power, if only we used it.
---------- ADS -----------
 
twa22
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 375
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:27 pm

Re: When ALPA says 'Where should we set our bar?'

Post by twa22 »

Bede wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 9:34 am
negroni wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 7:21 am Sorry, where exactly will the airlines find 5000+ atpl pilots overnight? And have them trained and ready to fly?
5000+ pilots? No where.
A few hundred pilots to operate a skeleton network? TFW, scabs, managers, picket crossers, charter airlines, etc. They can cut out the least profitable routes and keep a skeleton network going for a bit. Now add in the pissed off travelling public and a government that wants to get re-elected and willing to make your life miserable...

Now may I flip the question? If you're wildcatting en masse, where are 5000+ pilots going to find enough money to put food on the table? You may find that a corporation with deep pockets can outlast your will to strike.
Here's the latest example of Kenya Airways pilots striking in a very similar fashion to the AC strike in 2012. They have also been forced back to work as the strike was deemed illegal, yet they push on, just like CUPE has done here last week

https://simpleflying.com/kenya-airways- ... th-strike/

Several legacy carriers around the world have gone on strike this year, and they have all made gains. Like negroni said, we have all the power, and a strike action will surely lead to improvements across the board here

So if you think 5000+ pilots going on strike here won't have any effect on wage improvements, you're truely a fool.
---------- ADS -----------
 
negroni
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:16 pm

Re: When ALPA says 'Where should we set our bar?'

Post by negroni »

twa22 wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 11:21 am you're truely a fool.
Or a management shill
---------- ADS -----------
 
Dry Guy
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:44 pm

Re: When ALPA says 'Where should we set our bar?'

Post by Dry Guy »

It's the crabs in the bucket mentality. We need to get rid of that as a national group. Gains for AC pilots are good for all pilots in Canada.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Bede
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4427
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:52 am

Re: When ALPA says 'Where should we set our bar?'

Post by Bede »

twa22 wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 11:21 am Several legacy carriers around the world have gone on strike this year, and they have all made gains. Like negroni said, we have all the power, and a strike action will surely lead to improvements across the board here

So if you think 5000+ pilots going on strike here won't have any effect on wage improvements, you're truely a fool.
This discussion was one of a wildcat while you’re still working under a CA that you voted in, not being on strike when in a legal strike position. There’s a world of difference. I never said that you cannot make gains when in a lawful strike. My comment was one that a wildcat strike would have no outcome other than management coming to the table.
---------- ADS -----------
 
twa22
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 375
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:27 pm

Re: When ALPA says 'Where should we set our bar?'

Post by twa22 »

Bede wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:08 pm
twa22 wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 11:21 am Several legacy carriers around the world have gone on strike this year, and they have all made gains. Like negroni said, we have all the power, and a strike action will surely lead to improvements across the board here

So if you think 5000+ pilots going on strike here won't have any effect on wage improvements, you're truely a fool.
This discussion was one of a wildcat while you’re still working under a CA that you voted in, not being on strike when in a legal strike position. There’s a world of difference. I never said that you cannot make gains when in a lawful strike. My comment was one that a wildcat strike would have no outcome other than management coming to the table.
Ok i'm not sure what you interpreted from the other posters comments, but I don't believe anyone here was implying walking off the job mid contract... I'm pretty sure the sentiment is that when the time comes for contract negotiations, and when the AC pilot group is in a position to strike, lawfully, SHOULD the unfortunate event of being legislated back to work occur like 2012, the pilot group should have enough unity to stand together, say NO, and proceed with the strike, much like the CUPE strike that is occurring now
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Bede
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4427
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:52 am

Re: When ALPA says 'Where should we set our bar?'

Post by Bede »

twa22 wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:31 pm Ok i'm not sure what you interpreted from the other posters comments, but I don't believe anyone here was implying walking off the job mid contract...
Enough is enough. If we, as a collective can organize a day to walk out on the job.
---------- ADS -----------
 
negroni
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:16 pm

Re: When ALPA says 'Where should we set our bar?'

Post by negroni »

Bede wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:08 pm
twa22 wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 11:21 am Several legacy carriers around the world have gone on strike this year, and they have all made gains. Like negroni said, we have all the power, and a strike action will surely lead to improvements across the board here

So if you think 5000+ pilots going on strike here won't have any effect on wage improvements, you're truely a fool.
This discussion was one of a wildcat while you’re still working under a CA that you voted in, not being on strike when in a legal strike position. There’s a world of difference. I never said that you cannot make gains when in a lawful strike. My comment was one that a wildcat strike would have no outcome other than management coming to the table.
Yeah that's not at all how I interpreted any of the posts.
---------- ADS -----------
 
twa22
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 375
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:27 pm

Re: When ALPA says 'Where should we set our bar?'

Post by twa22 »

Bede wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:08 pm
twa22 wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:31 pm Ok i'm not sure what you interpreted from the other posters comments, but I don't believe anyone here was implying walking off the job mid contract...
Enough is enough. If we, as a collective can organize a day to walk out on the job.
Yea it was obvious you nit picked that one specific post, but you'd think that you would have read between the lines on that one and not taken it literally, given the contexts of the previous posts... Anyways
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Bede
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4427
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:52 am

Re: When ALPA says 'Where should we set our bar?'

Post by Bede »

twa22 wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:03 pm Yea it was obvious you nit picked that one specific post, but you'd think that you would have read between the lines on that one and not taken it literally, given the contexts of the previous posts... Anyways
Sorry I took it literally because, in the past, I've heard pilots say things along the lines of, "if we do x, they will have no choice but to give us y", to unintended and poor results.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
schnitzel2k3
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1456
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:17 pm

Re: When ALPA says 'Where should we set our bar?'

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

What CUPE workers are organizing is impressive, but at the end of the day they are employees in a public sector, poorly paid employees, but public employees. The government intervening in such drastic fashion is becoming more common place as they try justify this breach of the charter of rights. I am disappointed the talks got to this point, particularly in a period of decent financials.

That being said,

When the federal government stepped in, in 2013/14, they dipped their junk into a private labour negotiation with consequences that have affected the aviation industry in Canada for over a decade. Had the membership at the time had the appropriate union leaders to lead them forward, they likely would not have been in such a bent over position as they continue to be today.

The labour shortage is here, perhaps a decade and pandemic late, but it is truly here. 'Recession' be damned, this economy is going to switch gears, and travel is where its headed. You have one of the largest generations in history sitting on an absolute pile of cash, ready to do the many things they held off doing.

It's time to get our fair shake.
---------- ADS -----------
 
FL030
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 253
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:10 pm

Re: When ALPA says 'Where should we set our bar?'

Post by FL030 »

Bill 28 repealed! Precedent set! Thank you CUPE. LFG!!
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Air Canada”