How do you think the Jazz Union is handling Flow Issue?

[canadian_aviator_4]

How do you think jazz union is handling flow issue? Looking to see what people think on how it’s being handled. If something more could be done or if they are doing all they can? Cheers!

[Aspiredtofly]

How do you think jazz union is handling flow issue? Looking to see what people think on how it’s being handled. If something more could be done or if they are doing all they can? Cheers!

Curious to know too but I think they are just waiting for things to unfold from mass resignations to less qualified FO's that can't upgrade to captain. Things are gonna get worse alot it's just a matter of time

[ellinas]

How do you think jazz union is handling flow issue? Looking to see what people think on how it’s being handled. If something more could be done or if they are doing all they can? Cheers!

Curious to know too but I think they are just waiting for things to unfold from mass resignations to less qualified FO's that can't upgrade to captain. Things are gonna get worse alot it's just a matter of time

When you mean worse , they’re going to have a hard time finding people to fly their planes ?

[Aspiredtofly]

How do you think jazz union is handling flow issue? Looking to see what people think on how it’s being handled. If something more could be done or if they are doing all they can? Cheers!

Curious to know too but I think they are just waiting for things to unfold from mass resignations to less qualified FO's that can't upgrade to captain. Things are gonna get worse alot it's just a matter of time

When you mean worse , they’re going to have a hard time finding people to fly their planes ?

Finding qualified people to fly their planes for below poverty wages. Yes

[averageatbest]

How do you think jazz union is handling flow issue? Looking to see what people think on how it’s being handled. If something more could be done or if they are doing all they can? Cheers!

Curious to know too but I think they are just waiting for things to unfold from mass resignations to less qualified FO's that can't upgrade to captain. Things are gonna get worse alot it's just a matter of time

Why would they quit? It's not like they can go to another airline and upgrade. They need to meet the regulatory requirements and those are equal across the board.

[Loon-A-Tic]

Is speculative at best, with no supporting evidence but I'm of the opinion flow will remain in one form or another. I can see a negotiated reduction in the percentage from the current 60% to a more long-term sustainable percentage. What I would like to see is an "intake" process that culminates in a mainline seniority being issued with up to a two-year deferral option and thereafter either "use it or lose it".

[negroni]

Won't happen without the blessing of ACPA and based on the last vote I can't see it happening anytime soon. AC isn't willing to pay into the ACPA contract what's required to get that vote to be a yes.

[Cavalier44]

Is speculative at best, with no supporting evidence but I'm of the opinion flow will remain in one form or another. I can see a negotiated reduction in the percentage from the current 60% to a more long-term sustainable percentage. What I would like to see is an "intake" process that culminates in a mainline seniority being issued with up to a two-year deferral option and thereafter either "use it or lose it".

The issue with your proposal is that the Air Canada pilot group would have to vote to approve it. As we saw from the previous failed MOA, Air Canada's management is still firmly wedded to the idea of so-called "zero-cost" bargaining, where any potential gain offered is also tied to some form of concessions from the pilot group.

While I have no moral objection to Jazz pilots being offered a reserved seniority number in order to incentivize hiring at the regional carrier, I have no interest in giving concessions to the company to facilitate this happening. In order to pass, I believe that any proposal from the company to this end would have to come with a no-strings-attached, permanent benefit to the Air Canada pilot group, without asking for anything in return. I am skeptical that the decision-makers at AC HQ are willing to come up with such an offer.

I don't think that we've seen the long-term plan for Jazz fully revealed yet. Air Canada has ramped back up its hiring of Jazz pilots for the remainder of the year, most of whom are experienced captains, seemingly despite a significant staffing issue at the regional operation. Where are the pilots going to come from to replace those lost to flow-through? Does Jazz have enough qualified, ATPL-holding FOs waiting in the wings to be upgraded? Already, Air Canada is using Rouge as a gap-filler to cover a number of Jazz routes. It seems inevitable to me that we will see a further reduction/consolidation of Jazz flying in 2023 as Air Canada attempts to strike a balance between hiring pilots from Jazz and keeping the operation staffed at a viable level. I'd expect to see more L319 and A220 being deployed on domestic flying to cover what would have been Jazz CRJ900/E175 routes. Will that be enough to allow Air Canada to meet its contractual obligation to hire 60% of its new-hire pilots from Jazz? Too soon to say, but I have my doubts.

[TrilliumFlt]

It sure would be a pleasant change if ALL Canadian pilots could play nice in the sandbox for once.

[negroni]

Is speculative at best, with no supporting evidence but I'm of the opinion flow will remain in one form or another. I can see a negotiated reduction in the percentage from the current 60% to a more long-term sustainable percentage. What I would like to see is an "intake" process that culminates in a mainline seniority being issued with up to a two-year deferral option and thereafter either "use it or lose it".

The issue with your proposal is that the Air Canada pilot group would have to vote to approve it. As we saw from the previous failed MOA, Air Canada's management is still firmly wedded to the idea of so-called "zero-cost" bargaining, where any potential gain offered is also tied to some form of concessions from the pilot group.

While I have no moral objection to Jazz pilots being offered a reserved seniority number in order to incentivize hiring at the regional carrier, I have no interest in giving concessions to the company to facilitate this happening. In order to pass, I believe that any proposal from the company to this end would have to come with a no-strings-attached, permanent benefit to the Air Canada pilot group, without asking for anything in return. I am skeptical that the decision-makers at AC HQ are willing to come up with such an offer.

I don't think that we've seen the long-term plan for Jazz fully revealed yet. Air Canada has ramped back up its hiring of Jazz pilots for the remainder of the year, most of whom are experienced captains, seemingly despite a significant staffing issue at the regional operation. Where are the pilots going to come from to replace those lost to flow-through? Does Jazz have enough qualified, ATPL-holding FOs waiting in the wings to be upgraded? Already, Air Canada is using Rouge as a gap-filler to cover a number of Jazz routes. It seems inevitable to me that we will see a further reduction/consolidation of Jazz flying in 2023 as Air Canada attempts to strike a balance between hiring pilots from Jazz and keeping the operation staffed at a viable level. I'd expect to see more L319 and A220 being deployed on domestic flying to cover what would have been Jazz CRJ900/E175 routes. Will that be enough to allow Air Canada to meet its contractual obligation to hire 60% of its new-hire pilots from Jazz? Too soon to say, but I have my doubts.

Why should we help AC with their hiring/pay shortage. All that does is ruin any kind of leverage we may have to raise wages and working conditions. For me to vote YES to a deferral program, there has to be a hell of a lot of money put into the contract. Not just pay, but working conditions (vacation, sim back into the block, 5 hour + minimum calender day credit etc.) Anything less than that, and it's a NO from me.

[Aspiredtofly]

Is speculative at best, with no supporting evidence but I'm of the opinion flow will remain in one form or another. I can see a negotiated reduction in the percentage from the current 60% to a more long-term sustainable percentage. What I would like to see is an "intake" process that culminates in a mainline seniority being issued with up to a two-year deferral option and thereafter either "use it or lose it".

The issue with your proposal is that the Air Canada pilot group would have to vote to approve it. As we saw from the previous failed MOA, Air Canada's management is still firmly wedded to the idea of so-called "zero-cost" bargaining, where any potential gain offered is also tied to some form of concessions from the pilot group.

While I have no moral objection to Jazz pilots being offered a reserved seniority number in order to incentivize hiring at the regional carrier, I have no interest in giving concessions to the company to facilitate this happening. In order to pass, I believe that any proposal from the company to this end would have to come with a no-strings-attached, permanent benefit to the Air Canada pilot group, without asking for anything in return. I am skeptical that the decision-makers at AC HQ are willing to come up with such an offer.

I don't think that we've seen the long-term plan for Jazz fully revealed yet. Air Canada has ramped back up its hiring of Jazz pilots for the remainder of the year, most of whom are experienced captains, seemingly despite a significant staffing issue at the regional operation. Where are the pilots going to come from to replace those lost to flow-through? Does Jazz have enough qualified, ATPL-holding FOs waiting in the wings to be upgraded? Already, Air Canada is using Rouge as a gap-filler to cover a number of Jazz routes. It seems inevitable to me that we will see a further reduction/consolidation of Jazz flying in 2023 as Air Canada attempts to strike a balance between hiring pilots from Jazz and keeping the operation staffed at a viable level. I'd expect to see more L319 and A220 being deployed on domestic flying to cover what would have been Jazz CRJ900/E175 routes. Will that be enough to allow Air Canada to meet its contractual obligation to hire 60% of its new-hire pilots from Jazz? Too soon to say, but I have my doubts.

Why should we help AC with their hiring/pay shortage. All that does is ruin any kind of leverage we may have to raise wages and working conditions. For me to vote YES to a deferral program, there has to be a hell of a lot of money put into the contract. Not just pay, but working conditions (vacation, sim back into the block, 5 hour + minimum calender day credit etc.) Anything less than that, and it's a NO from me.

We all keep saying this same thing on repeat but no action taken

[Aspiredtofly]

Like it's only a matter of time to see pilots commit suicide due to all that stress and burden on top of them. If this issue of low pay and better QOL will not solve take to the streets and protest widely to be heard seriously now.

[cdnavater]

Like it's only a matter of time to see pilots commit suicide due to all that stress and burden on top of them. If this issue of low pay and better QOL will not solve take to the streets and protest widely to be heard seriously now.

What the @#$! is that?
I’ve had stress and burden, lost my job, filed bankruptcy, marriage break up, etc.. but I’ve never entertained the thought of suicide!
I think comments like that say a lot about you and perhaps you’re aspiring to the wrong field if your thoughts about pay and quality of life lead you to suicide.

[negroni]

The issue with your proposal is that the Air Canada pilot group would have to vote to approve it. As we saw from the previous failed MOA, Air Canada's management is still firmly wedded to the idea of so-called "zero-cost" bargaining, where any potential gain offered is also tied to some form of concessions from the pilot group.

While I have no moral objection to Jazz pilots being offered a reserved seniority number in order to incentivize hiring at the regional carrier, I have no interest in giving concessions to the company to facilitate this happening. In order to pass, I believe that any proposal from the company to this end would have to come with a no-strings-attached, permanent benefit to the Air Canada pilot group, without asking for anything in return. I am skeptical that the decision-makers at AC HQ are willing to come up with such an offer.

I don't think that we've seen the long-term plan for Jazz fully revealed yet. Air Canada has ramped back up its hiring of Jazz pilots for the remainder of the year, most of whom are experienced captains, seemingly despite a significant staffing issue at the regional operation. Where are the pilots going to come from to replace those lost to flow-through? Does Jazz have enough qualified, ATPL-holding FOs waiting in the wings to be upgraded? Already, Air Canada is using Rouge as a gap-filler to cover a number of Jazz routes. It seems inevitable to me that we will see a further reduction/consolidation of Jazz flying in 2023 as Air Canada attempts to strike a balance between hiring pilots from Jazz and keeping the operation staffed at a viable level. I'd expect to see more L319 and A220 being deployed on domestic flying to cover what would have been Jazz CRJ900/E175 routes. Will that be enough to allow Air Canada to meet its contractual obligation to hire 60% of its new-hire pilots from Jazz? Too soon to say, but I have my doubts.

Why should we help AC with their hiring/pay shortage. All that does is ruin any kind of leverage we may have to raise wages and working conditions. For me to vote YES to a deferral program, there has to be a hell of a lot of money put into the contract. Not just pay, but working conditions (vacation, sim back into the block, 5 hour + minimum calender day credit etc.) Anything less than that, and it's a NO from me.

We all keep saying this same thing on repeat but no action taken

I disagree. 79% NO vote is action being taken. Finally.

[Aspiredtofly]

Like it's only a matter of time to see pilots commit suicide due to all that stress and burden on top of them. If this issue of low pay and better QOL will not solve take to the streets and protest widely to be heard seriously now.

What the @#$! is that?
I’ve had stress and burden, lost my job, filed bankruptcy, marriage break up, etc.. but I’ve never entertained the thought of suicide!
I think comments like that say a lot about you and perhaps you’re aspiring to the wrong field if your thoughts about pay and quality of life lead you to suicide.

It's not that you get *entertained* by suicide. You get depressed with living the same broke life over and over again every month and every year with little to no progress in future especially in terms of financial gain cause you can't save any of the money under 30k salary. I'm sorry to hear that you've been through alot but how far are we willing to go. From taking debt to reaching the big red or elsewhere, it takes years of hardwork and sacrifice only to be subjected with a salary of 55k is outrageous brother

[twa22]

.

[averageatbest]

Like it's only a matter of time to see pilots commit suicide due to all that stress and burden on top of them. If this issue of low pay and better QOL will not solve take to the streets and protest widely to be heard seriously now.

What the @#$! is that?
I’ve had stress and burden, lost my job, filed bankruptcy, marriage break up, etc.. but I’ve never entertained the thought of suicide!
I think comments like that say a lot about you and perhaps you’re aspiring to the wrong field if your thoughts about pay and quality of life lead you to suicide.

It's great that you have a strong mental capacity for stress. Remember, just because everything is great for you does not mean that everything is great for the person next to you.

[cdnavater]

Like it's only a matter of time to see pilots commit suicide due to all that stress and burden on top of them. If this issue of low pay and better QOL will not solve take to the streets and protest widely to be heard seriously now.

What the @#$! is that?
I’ve had stress and burden, lost my job, filed bankruptcy, marriage break up, etc.. but I’ve never entertained the thought of suicide!
I think comments like that say a lot about you and perhaps you’re aspiring to the wrong field if your thoughts about pay and quality of life lead you to suicide.

It's not that you get *entertained* by suicide. You get depressed with living the same broke life over and over again every month and every year with little to no progress in future especially in terms of financial gain cause you can't save any of the money under 30k salary. I'm sorry to hear that you've been through alot but how far are we willing to go. From taking debt to reaching the big red or elsewhere, it takes years of hardwork and sacrifice only to be subjected with a salary of 55k is outrageous brother

In the English language there is commonly more than one meaning to a word, expand your vocabulary before criticizing others!

past tense: entertained; past participle: entertained
1.
provide (someone) with amusement or enjoyment.


2.
give attention or consideration to (an idea, suggestion, or feeling).
"Washington entertained little hope of an early improvement in relations"

As for your other comments, how far are you willing to go? Perhaps if you’re already thinking that your investment into a industry that provides the level of financial stress leading to suicidal thoughts, you should re-examine your path.
Will it change, hard to say but I’ve always thought suicide is the cowards way out. Life is often difficult, I can assume if you mention suicide to your CAME, you’ll be sidelined until you can prove otherwise.

[quote=cdnavater post_id=<a href="tel:1225949">1225949</a> time=<a href="tel:1669090646">1669090646</a> user_id=78357]
[quote=Aspiredtofly post_id=<a href="tel:1225934">1225934</a> time=<a href="tel:1669086423">1669086423</a> user_id=81282]
Like it's only a matter of time to see pilots commit suicide due to all that stress and burden on top of them. If this issue of low pay and better QOL will not solve take to the streets and protest widely to be heard seriously now.

What the @#$! is that?
I’ve had stress and burden, lost my job, filed bankruptcy, marriage break up, etc.. but I’ve never entertained the thought of suicide!
I think comments like that say a lot about you and perhaps you’re aspiring to the wrong field if your thoughts about pay and quality of life lead you to suicide.
[/quote]

It's great that you have a strong mental capacity for stress. Remember, just because everything is great for you does not mean that everything is great for the person next to you.
[/quote]
As for my mental stress, whenever things go wrong, I’ve always said to myself, it could be worse, I could be dead.
I truly hope that in this industry, the ones who contemplate suicide when things are stressful are the significant minority!