Don't get complacent

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TalkingPie
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Don't get complacent

Post by TalkingPie »

My last CPL training flight I learned how quickly and easily a routine situation could turn critical.

Flew my rental 152 on a cross country and landed at a rural paved aerodrome that I'd landed at before. The flight and landing went normally and I shut down for about 10 minutes to stretch my legs before flying back the same way I came. Did the usual run-up and controls checks per the checklist and everything continued to go fine. I taxied onto the runway, backtracked to the turnout point at the threshold and did a 180 degree right turn.

As I lined up with the runway coming out of the turn, my right rudder pedal went hard. I registered that it wasn't a situation I'd felt before, but there was a 10-15 kt crosswind coming directly from the right, so I surmised that the wind was putting pressure on the rudder. I had lots of runway, so decided to slowly advance the power and see if the plane stayed aligned with the runway. It did, so I went to full power and started the takeoff roll.

It was at about 40-45 kts that I realized I couldn't keep the plane from veering left. By then the situation was critical enough that I figured I was stuck either attempting to abort the takeoff and go into an expensive, and possibly painful, off-road excursion, or take the problem into the air. I chose the latter and rotated shortly before I would've run into the grass while probably 20-30 degrees to the left of runway track.

Luckily there was field on either side of the runway and I was able to crab the plane while keeping the nose low enough to make sure I had enough airspeed to climb out. I kept it off the stall horn and there was little risk of the high wing Cessna striking a wingtip, but it was by far the sketchiest takeoff I've ever experienced. Once airborne, rudder control returned to normal.

After confirming that the plane was flying safely and the rudder was operating normally, I decided I was better off landing back at my home airport, with a runway better aligned into the wind and with people who could help me if something went wrong, than to put it back down at the empty aerodrome I'd just taken off from. I wasn't sure whether I had a mechanical issue or if I'd just completely flubbed a crosswind takeoff. Regardless, I probably could've given more right aileron correction than I did.

Once back home I reported what happened and was told the next day that there had in fact been an issue with "the steering rod."

Everything worked out ok, but I came away feeling that I had succeeded despite idiocy. I should have done more investigating when the rudder control felt off before I started the takeoff roll. I should've been more ready to pull the power and use right brake and aileron to stop, before getting to an airspeed and runway alignment where I was out of good options. Despite my best intentions, my situational awareness and judgement weren't as good as they should've been.

Luckily this wound up being no worse than a learning experience. I share it here as a reminder for other low time pilots to not make the same errors. We're flying 40 year-old planes and the unexpected can happen regardless of our plane's age or maintenance. It's our job to be prepared to deal with it.
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photofly
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Re: Don't get complacent

Post by photofly »

How was the landing?
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TalkingPie
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Re: Don't get complacent

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photofly wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:13 am How was the landing?
Both the away and home landings were completely fine. The rudder problem was only present shortly before I started the takeoff roll up until shortly after rotation. I may have needed a bit more right rudder than normal during cruise to stay coordinated on the leg home, but that was very mild and could've even been my imagination.
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Re: Don't get complacent

Post by photofly »

Well done on not damaging anything. Everyone has a few questionable decisions in their flying past (and future for that matter). And helpful to share.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Don't get complacent

Post by rookiepilot »

Maybe it was greater than 15 knots, and at the limits of the AC.

Hard Right crosswinds take a lot of rudder input….
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Re: Don't get complacent

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rookiepilot wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:34 am Maybe it was greater than 15 knots, and at the limits of the AC.

Hard Right crosswinds take a lot of rudder input….
Hard right crosswinds would make you veer to the right:
It was at about 40-45 kts that I realized I couldn't keep the plane from veering left.
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Re: Don't get complacent

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photofly wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:43 am
rookiepilot wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:34 am Maybe it was greater than 15 knots, and at the limits of the AC.

Hard Right crosswinds take a lot of rudder input….
Hard right crosswinds would make you veer to the right:
It was at about 40-45 kts that I realized I couldn't keep the plane from veering left.
I need more coffee. Clearly.
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Posthumane
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Re: Don't get complacent

Post by Posthumane »

Sounds like it could have been a problem similar to this:
https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/refere ... y-advisory

While the decision to takeoff may not have been the best in hindsight, it's good that you learned from it and are humble enough to post about it. Cheers!
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TalkingPie
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Re: Don't get complacent

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Posthumane wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:19 pm Sounds like it could have been a problem similar to this:
https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/refere ... y-advisory

While the decision to takeoff may not have been the best in hindsight, it's good that you learned from it and are humble enough to post about it. Cheers!
Thanks for that!

Although much of the technical details in the report elude me, I think this may be what happened. I landed shortly before sunset, so maintenance didn't look at the plane while I was still there, but the dispatcher came out to look at the plane with me and asked whether the rudder was pointing left with the nose wheel straight, which it was, slightly. It sounds like she - or someone else at the FBO - had heard of this problem before. Maybe I wasn't imagining needing more right rudder in cruise, after all. It seems like I was lucky that the problem was only temporary in my case. I'd rather be lucky than good, I guess, but would really prefer to be both.

I also appreciate the other replies. In some pilot circles everyone denies ever making a mistake. It's refreshing not to get torn to shreds for admitting to making them.
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Re: Don't get complacent

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TalkingPie wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:08 am It was at about 40-45 kts that I realized I couldn't keep the plane from veering left. By then the situation was critical enough that I figured I was stuck either attempting to abort the takeoff and go into an expensive, and possibly painful, off-road excursion, or take the problem into the air. I chose the latter and rotated shortly before I would've run into the grass while probably 20-30 degrees to the left of runway track.
A bit off topic, but this is one of those classic pilot decision making moments.

Option A is 90% survivable but likely causes damage and becomes an "incident".

Option B is much riskier, but has the possibility of no damage and no "incident".

Pilots will typically choose B.

Glad it worked out for you.
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Re: Don't get complacent

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Donald wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:05 pm
TalkingPie wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:08 am It was at about 40-45 kts that I realized I couldn't keep the plane from veering left. By then the situation was critical enough that I figured I was stuck either attempting to abort the takeoff and go into an expensive, and possibly painful, off-road excursion, or take the problem into the air. I chose the latter and rotated shortly before I would've run into the grass while probably 20-30 degrees to the left of runway track.
A bit off topic, but this is one of those classic pilot decision making moments.

Option A is 90% survivable but likely causes damage and becomes an "incident".

Option B is much riskier, but has the possibility of no damage and no "incident".

Pilots will typically choose B.

Glad it worked out for you.
Not off topic at all and something worth thinking about. It's easy for me to claim that Option B was the right one because it resulted in a favorable outcome, but there's no question that luck played a role. I had no way of knowing that the rudder would free itself once in the air, and we all know you generally don't want to take a mechanical issue into the air if you can help it.

At the point of my takeoff that you quoted, of course there was little time to fully reflect on all the options. By far the best would've been to investigate the suspect rudder feel more closely before I even started the takeoff roll. I think complacency was to blame for not doing that; I had just checked that all controls were free and correct a minute or two earlier. Next up would've been to react more quickly to the veering aircraft, cut the power, and use aileron and differential braking to take advantage of the rest of the 4,000' runway. Pulling the power alone probably would've straightened me out quite a bit. Call my failure to do that a lack of sufficient situational awareness.

I still think that the decision to take off, once I was at the point of "rotate or do some lawn mowing," may not have been a completely ridiculous one. I had a fair bit of flat real estate, especially to my left, and believed I could have kept directional control of the plane even if the rudder had stayed stuck. I would've been in for a rough landing, quite probably, but I would've had the benefit of having time to prepare for it, try to troubleshoot the problem, pick a runway with favourable crosswind, secure the fuel and electrics, and would the landing have been much rougher than going off the runway at rotation speed, where much like the service difficulty advisory that's been posted, I would have risked flipping the airplane? I don't know the answers to those questions; just that I need to keep filling my skills bucket before the luck bucket runs out.
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Re: Don't get complacent

Post by Bede »

Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Don't get complacent

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it's really really difficult to make that decision to abort a takeoff, not least because most student pilots aren't familiar with how to manage it and who wants to take that leap into the unknown? So, it's well worthwhile finding a decent length runway and conducting a few practice aborts at different airspeeds, including just before rotation, at rotation, and (especially) a second or two after airborne. Once you've tried it a few times its much easier to make that decision when you need to.
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
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Re: Don't get complacent

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photofly wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:16 am it's really really difficult to make that decision to abort a takeoff, not least because most student pilots aren't familiar with how to manage it and who wants to take that leap into the unknown? So, it's well worthwhile finding a decent length runway and conducting a few practice aborts at different airspeeds, including just before rotation, at rotation, and (especially) a second or two after airborne. Once you've tried it a few times its much easier to make that decision when you need to.
That's a very good point and an interesting idea. I wonder if the reason TC doesn't require any training or practice on it is because there's a significant potential for incidents - expensive but non-fatal ones - while doing it. I've never done anything resembling a planned aborted takeoff at rotation speed and I'd feel nervous trying it; I don't think it would've gone all that smoothly unplanned and with no rudder control, assuming I'd had the presence of mind to try it. It's still a much better alternative to taking off only to slam into the ground a short time later, though.

I don't know how the average flight school would react to a student requesting to practice this. It's a required skill, for sure, but FTUs might not like the risk associated nor the interruption to circuit traffic.
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Re: Don't get complacent

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TalkingPie wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:53 am

That's a very good point and an interesting idea. I wonder if the reason TC doesn't require any training or practice on it is because there's a significant potential for incidents - expensive but non-fatal ones - while doing it. I've never done anything resembling a planned aborted takeoff at rotation speed and I'd feel nervous trying it; I don't think it would've gone all that smoothly unplanned and with no rudder control, assuming I'd had the presence of mind to try it. It's still a much better alternative to taking off only to slam into the ground a short time later, though.

I don't know how the average flight school would react to a student requesting to practice this. It's a required skill, for sure, but FTUs might not like the risk associated nor the interruption to circuit traffic.
Huh? Why? What's so dangerous about aborting a take off in a typical trainer on a typical runway that's 4 times as long as it needs to be?
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Re: Don't get complacent

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digits_ wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:31 am
TalkingPie wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:53 am

That's a very good point and an interesting idea. I wonder if the reason TC doesn't require any training or practice on it is because there's a significant potential for incidents - expensive but non-fatal ones - while doing it. I've never done anything resembling a planned aborted takeoff at rotation speed and I'd feel nervous trying it; I don't think it would've gone all that smoothly unplanned and with no rudder control, assuming I'd had the presence of mind to try it. It's still a much better alternative to taking off only to slam into the ground a short time later, though.

I don't know how the average flight school would react to a student requesting to practice this. It's a required skill, for sure, but FTUs might not like the risk associated nor the interruption to circuit traffic.
Huh? Why? What's so dangerous about aborting a take off in a typical trainer on a typical runway that's 4 times as long as it needs to be?
My concern is losing directional stability and going off the side or worst case flipping over. I imagine veering one way and then overcorrecting another, especially while transitioning your feet from heels on the floor to heel-toe on the pedals. Not having ever done it, maybe I'm overestimating the difficulty.
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Re: Don't get complacent

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TalkingPie wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:42 am
digits_ wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:31 am Huh? Why? What's so dangerous about aborting a take off in a typical trainer on a typical runway that's 4 times as long as it needs to be?
My concern is losing directional stability and going off the side or worst case flipping over. I imagine veering one way and then overcorrecting another, especially while transitioning your feet from heels on the floor to heel-toe on the pedals. Not having ever done it, maybe I'm overestimating the difficulty.
You are. It's not a big deal -- even if it might look like one if you've never done it before. This is why it's a good idea to train for it. Like Photo said, it makes the decision making much easier if you're familiar and know you have the required skill. Next time you fly with an instructor, you should request it.
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Conflicting Traffic please advise.
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Re: Don't get complacent

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TalkingPie wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:42 am
digits_ wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:31 am
TalkingPie wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:53 am

That's a very good point and an interesting idea. I wonder if the reason TC doesn't require any training or practice on it is because there's a significant potential for incidents - expensive but non-fatal ones - while doing it. I've never done anything resembling a planned aborted takeoff at rotation speed and I'd feel nervous trying it; I don't think it would've gone all that smoothly unplanned and with no rudder control, assuming I'd had the presence of mind to try it. It's still a much better alternative to taking off only to slam into the ground a short time later, though.

I don't know how the average flight school would react to a student requesting to practice this. It's a required skill, for sure, but FTUs might not like the risk associated nor the interruption to circuit traffic.
Huh? Why? What's so dangerous about aborting a take off in a typical trainer on a typical runway that's 4 times as long as it needs to be?
My concern is losing directional stability and going off the side or worst case flipping over. I imagine veering one way and then overcorrecting another, especially while transitioning your feet from heels on the floor to heel-toe on the pedals. Not having ever done it, maybe I'm overestimating the difficulty.
It's a non-event. If you're worried about it, go do one with an instructor. But next time you're on a long runway, just reduce the throttle. Don't even worry about about braking. The plane will just slow down.

It could get more interesting in a tail dragger if you get all antsy about it, but even there, reducing power and gentle corrections is all you'll likely need.
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Last edited by digits_ on Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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Re: Don't get complacent

Post by photofly »

TalkingPie wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:53 am
photofly wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:16 am it's really really difficult to make that decision to abort a takeoff, not least because most student pilots aren't familiar with how to manage it and who wants to take that leap into the unknown? So, it's well worthwhile finding a decent length runway and conducting a few practice aborts at different airspeeds, including just before rotation, at rotation, and (especially) a second or two after airborne. Once you've tried it a few times its much easier to make that decision when you need to.
That's a very good point and an interesting idea. I wonder if the reason TC doesn't require any training or practice on it is because there's a significant potential for incidents - expensive but non-fatal ones - while doing it. I've never done anything resembling a planned aborted takeoff at rotation speed and I'd feel nervous trying it;
You're making my point for me, most eloquently. There should be no potential for incidents. When you've done it a few times, you'll realize that it's a sleepy non-event. Because you haven't tried it, you think it is a big deal. Because you think it's a big deal, you're not as ready to do it (when circumstances dictate it would be wise) as you should be. i have a feeling that's not uncommon among trainee pilots. Being comfortable with all your options really does help you make the best decisions. (This is really similar to the question about practicing turning back to the airfield.)
I don't know how the average flight school would react to a student requesting to practice this.
With loud applause, I hope.
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