Petition

[Fanblade]

What's happening with this now?

I asked and was told to standby for latest ATIS message. That the latest MEC meeting provided direction and we should hear something on next steps early December.

[FL030]

Thanks for the update.

[Dry Guy]

There's a new email now saying "ACPA received a petition, which was validated by the VCC, where 30% of our membership requested to have more education on what ALPA membership would look like."

That's not what the petition said was it? I signed it with the intent to direct the MEC to hold a membership vote on a merger with ALPA. Not to have more education on what that would look like.

[BTD]

Then you signed a different petition.

The first step was ALPA education on merger and negotiation.

[Dry Guy]

"The goal of the ALPA Education and Membership Petition is:
To petition the MEC to conduct a vote of the national membership on the following
question: Do you support prompt education about ALPA membership and a merger
agreement negotiation, followed by a vote on a merger with ALPA?"

[Dash.Trash]

"The goal of the ALPA Education and Membership Petition is:
To petition the MEC to conduct a vote of the national membership on the following
question: Do you support prompt education about ALPA membership and a merger
agreement negotiation, followed by a vote on a merger with ALPA?"

Pretty sure you just answered your own question.

Step 1: education and merger negotiations.
Step 2: vote.

[Fanblade]

"The goal of the ALPA Education and Membership Petition is:
To petition the MEC to conduct a vote of the national membership on the following
question: Do you support prompt education about ALPA membership and a merger
agreement negotiation, followed by a vote on a merger with ALPA?"

The petition question was pretty loaded. The question is how to execute.

The survey with the petition question creates the mandate to negotiate, educate and then vote.

[Dry Guy]

You guys are right. I think I'm just anxious about how they are going to try to weasel out of putting the ALPA merger to a vote. I'll relax, for now.

[Dash.Trash]

The majority of the new MEC ran on a pretty clear pro-ALPA platform. I don’t think weaseling out of a vote is something they are interested in doing.

[Fanblade]

You guys are right. I think I'm just anxious about how they are going to try to weasel out of putting the ALPA merger to a vote. I'll relax, for now.

You have good reason to be anxious. The concern isn’t the MEC though. They have a majority and are laser focused on ALPA.

What we should be concerned about is the possibility of other elements attempting to seize or create an opportunity to stall or derail a switch to ALPA. I don’t mean just within our group either. The company does not want to deal with ALPA.

[RippleRock]

Pretty HUGE disappointment with the MEC's choice to support the continuation of the "Dumb and Dumber Show" as our Negots commitee reps. These two are duds --and they have proven so-- every time they enter the Negots arena.

We consistently lose the most at the negotiating table with their representation. So what does the MEC do? Keep them on. We learn nothing apparently. Absolutely nothing. Same old, same old.

ACPA the gift that keeps on giving.

[FL030]

I will continue to suggest the hiring of professional negotiaters in every survey opportunity I am given.

[Bede]

I will continue to suggest the hiring of professional negotiaters in every survey opportunity I am given.

May I ask why you think that you'd get better results with professional negotiators?

[TheAlcalde]

I will continue to suggest the hiring of professional negotiaters in every survey opportunity I am given.

May I ask why you think that you'd get better results with professional negotiators?

Operative word is professional

[Bede]

I will continue to suggest the hiring of professional negotiaters in every survey opportunity I am given.

May I ask why you think that you'd get better results with professional negotiators?

Operative word is professional

I know. I'm just curious if there's any examples of pilot groups doing better with "professional negotiators" leading as opposed to pilots leading and being advised by professional negotiators (which is how ALPA does it). After all, pilots have to fly the contract, not the negotiators.

[FL030]

There's a number of qualities that make pilots good at their jobs, and nice people to spend a 14 hour duty day with, which are also the exact opposite of what you want in a negotiator. One of biggest I can think of is their desire to get the job done. They often even risk their own lives to do so. So when it's time to set the parking brake and demand what we deserve (passengers, freight, and company be damned) it goes completely against our nature. I felt bad even typing that. That's why I want our own sharks sitting across from the company's.

[rudder]

Pretty HUGE disappointment with the MEC's choice to support the continuation of the "Dumb and Dumber Show" as our Negots commitee reps. These two are duds --and they have proven so-- every time they enter the Negots arena.

We consistently lose the most at the negotiating table with their representation. So what does the MEC do? Keep them on. We learn nothing apparently. Absolutely nothing. Same old, same old.

ACPA the gift that keeps on giving.

You are sending back in the same committee that brought you the 80% ‘NO’ deal?

Unbelievable.

[Bede]

There's a number of qualities that make pilots good at their jobs, and nice people to spend a 14 hour duty day with, which are also the exact opposite of what you want in a negotiator.

You are correct. The qualities that make a good pilot are the opposite of what make a good negotiator....

That's why I want our own sharks sitting across from the company's.

...except that's not exactly what negotiators are good at. Anyone can say no and not budge, but then you won't get a deal. Rather, negotiators are generally good at building relationships (triggering word in WestJetLand:) and convincing their counterparts to give up more than they are willing to give up themselves.

[Dronepiper]

Bede weren’t you on the negotiating committee at WJ? Are you worried about the direction that the WJ union is taking with regards to their negotiations?