Hiring after DECEMBER
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Re: Hiring after DECEMBER
x2 looking for how long we have been in the pool for, before a call. Any other information would also be appreciated. Looking forward to flying the Q and meeting new people again
Cheers
Cheers
Re: Hiring after DECEMBER
Anyone have any idea how the cost of living negotiations are going?
Right now the interest rate increase driven my mortgage higher to the point where I am no longer eligible to hold the renewal. You’d think at minimum we would get an inflationary raise to reflect the mad cost of living. Raising per diems help but that is not income. The bank only cares about what your salary is. 41,000 or 76,000 doesn’t cut it for “professionals”.
Right now the interest rate increase driven my mortgage higher to the point where I am no longer eligible to hold the renewal. You’d think at minimum we would get an inflationary raise to reflect the mad cost of living. Raising per diems help but that is not income. The bank only cares about what your salary is. 41,000 or 76,000 doesn’t cut it for “professionals”.
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Re: Hiring after DECEMBER
First and foremost, "per diems", or Meal Cost Replacement (MCR) as we call it, is not compensation for your time and services performed. The banks have it right, but until we (collectively) refuse to accept any airline suggesting that it is, that problem will not be fixed.Maskless1 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:15 pm Anyone have any idea how the cost of living negotiations are going?
Right now the interest rate increase driven my mortgage higher to the point where I am no longer eligible to hold the renewal. You’d think at minimum we would get an inflationary raise to reflect the mad cost of living. Raising per diems help but that is not income. The bank only cares about what your salary is. 41,000 or 76,000 doesn’t cut it for “professionals”.
With that, the last communication that was released (prior to the scheduled December 7 talk) stated that the company and the union were far apart on what they thought was appropriate. We need a significant increase in pay yesterday, an immediate change to scheduling practices today, and job security for tomorrow. The company has offered half-ass 'bonuses' to specific pilots to address the captain shortage a while back and I assume that the company has come to the table with another half-ass measure to address the immediate issues facing their operations without a thought about the issues we'll face in the short and medium term future.
The next (and last announced) round of talks are on December 16. Don't hold your breath.
TL;DR: Don't expect anything groundbreaking.
Re: Hiring after DECEMBER
We need $10,000 on each side just to afford to get by. We’ll see what next year brings but I’m not optimistic with the new flair FO numbers. In the US the race to the top is on, meanwhile here we’re still racing to the bottom. It’s a competition to see who can pay the least. WJ is definitely making money. Our flights are full and the ticket prices are high. Sure they’re probably losing money on a hand full of high competition routes but it doesn’t turn an overall loss. I suspect “no profit” until both CBAs are complete.
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Re: Hiring after DECEMBER
The company has given up on Encore and is letting it die. That's the growing consensus. PTA is done, retention talks aren't going anywhere, and the YYZ base is just about ready to shut up shop.
The staffing issues at Encore could easily be resolved with money or even a merger, but the company isn't willing to water the Encore plant anymore.
The staffing issues at Encore could easily be resolved with money or even a merger, but the company isn't willing to water the Encore plant anymore.
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Re: Hiring after DECEMBER
Strategy to make the most leave, and put the rest on LOA while flow them, once the staffing because unsustainable from the company point of view, and revert back to point-to-point flying, hence eating the same plate as Flair.
Congrats to all that will flow very soon instead of in 5 years!
Congrats to all that will flow very soon instead of in 5 years!
Re: Hiring after DECEMBER
I wouldn’t be surprised to see it slowly fade out. But I think it’s more likely we’ll see 15 tails stick around in yyc to connect into their “global hub”. Probably much less of an expense to the company to fully staff 15, with better compensation. If they really want to fill all of these new airplanes they’re getting, they have to keep the feeder network open at least out west. I’m all for flowing faster but they need to fix the pay and progression anyways. 15 years to captain is too long if the pay is this low.kiaszceski wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:02 pm Strategy to make the most leave, and put the rest on LOA while flow them, once the staffing because unsustainable from the company point of view, and revert back to point-to-point flying, hence eating the same plate as Flair.
Congrats to all that will flow very soon instead of in 5 years!
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Re: Hiring after DECEMBER
Encore will fold into Pasco. It is the most plausible to me.
The people staying at the new Encore will flow as fast as Pasco/Encore can train Captain, with their seniority.
Pasco people will have a CPA with Westjet like AC is doing with Jazz. BOTL. This might take 2-3 years if they're able to fill the GSs and keep they new pilots. They might bump the pay once it folds into Pasco, to 65k/100k.
Pure speculation, but they are smart to screw us.
The people staying at the new Encore will flow as fast as Pasco/Encore can train Captain, with their seniority.
Pasco people will have a CPA with Westjet like AC is doing with Jazz. BOTL. This might take 2-3 years if they're able to fill the GSs and keep they new pilots. They might bump the pay once it folds into Pasco, to 65k/100k.
Pure speculation, but they are smart to screw us.
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Re: Hiring after DECEMBER
$10,000???????????? you must be kidding. We need at least $25000 each side for FO’s and Captains to even think about staying back. Aint nobody goin to stay for no $10,000. That ship has long sailed my friend. Why would someone stay for 10k when they can be making much much more at AT, AC, Cargojet, Porter, Flair and even Jazz DEC.Maskless1 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:46 pm We need $10,000 on each side just to afford to get by. We’ll see what next year brings but I’m not optimistic with the new flair FO numbers. In the US the race to the top is on, meanwhile here we’re still racing to the bottom. It’s a competition to see who can pay the least. WJ is definitely making money. Our flights are full and the ticket prices are high. Sure they’re probably losing money on a hand full of high competition routes but it doesn’t turn an overall loss. I suspect “no profit” until both CBAs are complete.
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Re: Hiring after DECEMBER
The old contract at Flair would give an FO at Encore a $24,000/year increase in pay right away. The new contract is closer to 30.Apestogetherstrong wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:40 pm$10,000???????????? you must be kidding. We need at least $25000 each side for FO’s and Captains to even think about staying back. Aint nobody goin to stay for no $10,000. That ship has long sailed my friend. Why would someone stay for 10k when they can be making much much more at AT, AC, Cargojet, Porter, Flair and even Jazz DEC.Maskless1 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:46 pm We need $10,000 on each side just to afford to get by. We’ll see what next year brings but I’m not optimistic with the new flair FO numbers. In the US the race to the top is on, meanwhile here we’re still racing to the bottom. It’s a competition to see who can pay the least. WJ is definitely making money. Our flights are full and the ticket prices are high. Sure they’re probably losing money on a hand full of high competition routes but it doesn’t turn an overall loss. I suspect “no profit” until both CBAs are complete.
Re: Hiring after DECEMBER
Apestogetherstrong wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:40 pm$10,000???????????? you must be kidding. We need at least $25000 each side for FO’s and Captains to even think about staying back. Aint nobody goin to stay for no $10,000. That ship has long sailed my friend. Why would someone stay for 10k when they can be making much much more at AT, AC, Cargojet, Porter, Flair and even Jazz DEC.Maskless1 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:46 pm We need $10,000 on each side just to afford to get by. We’ll see what next year brings but I’m not optimistic with the new flair FO numbers. In the US the race to the top is on, meanwhile here we’re still racing to the bottom. It’s a competition to see who can pay the least. WJ is definitely making money. Our flights are full and the ticket prices are high. Sure they’re probably losing money on a hand full of high competition routes but it doesn’t turn an overall loss. I suspect “no profit” until both CBAs are complete.
I was suggesting 10k just to LIVE. Lol. Right now the pay is unlivable. 10k would only keep up with inflation. We need way more to stay here. There’s no reason we can’t match porters new pay scale and work to make improvements on that.
Re: Hiring after DECEMBER
Apestogetherstrong wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:40 pm$10,000???????????? you must be kidding. We need at least $25000 each side for FO’s and Captains to even think about staying back. Aint nobody goin to stay for no $10,000. That ship has long sailed my friend. Why would someone stay for 10k when they can be making much much more at AT, AC, Cargojet, Porter, Flair and even Jazz DEC.Maskless1 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:46 pm We need $10,000 on each side just to afford to get by. We’ll see what next year brings but I’m not optimistic with the new flair FO numbers. In the US the race to the top is on, meanwhile here we’re still racing to the bottom. It’s a competition to see who can pay the least. WJ is definitely making money. Our flights are full and the ticket prices are high. Sure they’re probably losing money on a hand full of high competition routes but it doesn’t turn an overall loss. I suspect “no profit” until both CBAs are complete.
I was suggesting 10k just to LIVE. Lol. Right now the pay is unlivable. 10k would only keep up with inflation. We need way more to stay here. There’s no reason we can’t match porters new pay scale and work to make improvements on that.
Re: Hiring after DECEMBER
Encore gluck gluck 5000
Highlights of the Deal are as followed:
Captains and First Officers will receive lump sum payments of $850 a month if they are Active for one day in the pay period.
Captains and First Officers both move up 2 Pay Steps on January 1, 2023 (i.e., if you are a Captain on a year 3 pay step, you will now be on a year 5 Captain pay step).
New Captains and First Officers will start at year 3 of their respective pay steps.
New Captain Pay Steps added for year 7 and 8 at $106.56 and $109.49 respectively.
Training Pilots will receive a lump sum payment of $500 a month.
Line Indoctrination instructors will receive $120 per training day, previously was $90.
ACP will receive $200 per training day, previously was $155.
Training Pilot expenses account, amount available is $600 per month (this does not roll over), claims must comply with the corporate expense policy.
ATPL course (i.e., Aerocourse) reimbursed for First Officers with receipts, they will also receive a $500 one-time payment when completed.
This MOA would be effective from January 1,2023 until December 31, 2023, or until the date the next Collective Agreement takes effect, whichever is later.
Highlights of the Deal are as followed:
Captains and First Officers will receive lump sum payments of $850 a month if they are Active for one day in the pay period.
Captains and First Officers both move up 2 Pay Steps on January 1, 2023 (i.e., if you are a Captain on a year 3 pay step, you will now be on a year 5 Captain pay step).
New Captains and First Officers will start at year 3 of their respective pay steps.
New Captain Pay Steps added for year 7 and 8 at $106.56 and $109.49 respectively.
Training Pilots will receive a lump sum payment of $500 a month.
Line Indoctrination instructors will receive $120 per training day, previously was $90.
ACP will receive $200 per training day, previously was $155.
Training Pilot expenses account, amount available is $600 per month (this does not roll over), claims must comply with the corporate expense policy.
ATPL course (i.e., Aerocourse) reimbursed for First Officers with receipts, they will also receive a $500 one-time payment when completed.
This MOA would be effective from January 1,2023 until December 31, 2023, or until the date the next Collective Agreement takes effect, whichever is later.
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- GetAGripen
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Re: Hiring after DECEMBER
$51.48 for FO $89.36 for CA from my briefing package.
Thanks Yogi.
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Re: Hiring after DECEMBER
So effective first year rates?
FO: $56,532
$46,332 ($51.48 * 900) + $10,200 ($850 * 12)
CA: $90,624
$80,424 (89.36 * 900) + $10,200 ($850 * 12)
roughly a 30% pay jump? What's the quality of life like at the moment?
FO: $56,532
$46,332 ($51.48 * 900) + $10,200 ($850 * 12)
CA: $90,624
$80,424 (89.36 * 900) + $10,200 ($850 * 12)
roughly a 30% pay jump? What's the quality of life like at the moment?
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Re: Hiring after DECEMBER
Could you post a detailed payscale here for calculating purposesGetAGripen wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 7:13 pm$51.48 for FO $89.36 for CA from my briefing package.
Thanks Yogi.
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Re: Hiring after DECEMBER
Aspiredtofly wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 9:46 pmCould you post a detailed payscale here for calculating purposesGetAGripen wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 7:13 pm$51.48 for FO $89.36 for CA from my briefing package.
Thanks Yogi.
Re: Hiring after DECEMBER
Can someone explain this lump sump payment of 850 a month? How does that work exactly and for how long?
Re: Hiring after DECEMBER
Also to note, 2023 rates are $1 - $1.50 higher for FOs and $1.50 to $2 more for Captains. So the base number will be another $1000 or so higher.throwawaycorporate wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 7:38 pm So effective first year rates?
FO: $56,532
$46,332 ($51.48 * 900) + $10,200 ($850 * 12)
CA: $90,624
$80,424 (89.36 * 900) + $10,200 ($850 * 12)
roughly a 30% pay jump? What's the quality of life like at the moment?
As I understand it, if you are active 1 day in a month, you get $850 added to a pay cheque. It lasts until the new contract is negotiated. Current contract expires Dec 31, 2023 but sometimes a new contract won’t be finalized until a few months later. If that’s the case, the $850 payment continues.