TA Passed

[Vanguard]

Well that was that.

Congrats to the second lowest paid group of 737 pilots in Canada after Swoop! *slow clap* -- or the future lowest 737 Pilots... apparently Lynx will top you too?

Thanks for setting the bar high.

Regional FOs in US continue to make more than you.

https://psaairlines.com/pilot-wage-calculator/

[Vanguard]

I also noticed the FO REP IS A CAPTAIN

NO WONDER YOUR FO PAY SCALES DIDNT GET ANY IMPROVEMENT.

[Soyer]

Well that was that.

Congrats to the second lowest paid group of 737 pilots in Canada after Swoop! *slow clap*

Thanks for setting the bar high.

Regional FOs in US continue to make more than you.

https://psaairlines.com/pilot-wage-calculator/

Says the guy who less than a year ago was a 2700 hour 'standards' Captain. Pay scale for Captains is higher the WJ and for a young company that is an achievement. I wont' go further than that as a number of other posters have explained those aspects. But trolls like you can keep flaming away under the pretense of wanting to help the industry while the rest of us see you for what you are - an inexperienced naysayer who has an agenda (whether personal or based on the airline you work for) and acts like a spoiled child rather than a professional.

[pacman007]

Sadly you will see all airlines pass you on pay, even swoop! This was your once in a generation chance to make significant gains. These Gaines are just cost of living increases. Nothing more, it’s to bad you guys couldn’t see that.

[Vanguard]

Well that was that.

Congrats to the second lowest paid group of 737 pilots in Canada after Swoop! *slow clap*

Thanks for setting the bar high.

Regional FOs in US continue to make more than you.

https://psaairlines.com/pilot-wage-calculator/

Says the guy who less than a year ago was a 2700 hour 'standards' Captain. Pay scale for Captains is higher the WJ and for a young company that is an achievement. I wont' go further than that as a number of other posters have explained those aspects. But trolls like you can keep flaming away under the pretense of wanting to help the industry while the rest of us see you for what you are - an inexperienced naysayer who has an agenda (whether personal or based on the airline you work for) and acts like a spoiled child rather than a professional.

LOL I definitely wasn't a standards captain. Def don't have 2700hrs haha! Maybe 3x that. I definitely called out someone who was on that post lmao! What a joke this industry is.

If you're gonna come after me - do some more research. LOL What a fail.

The fact that Sunwing got WJ+2.5% should give you an indication of where you stand. That was a MOA not even Negotiations and well pre-contract.

I am way more professional than you. I hope you realize even Swoop will pay more than you chubbs next year. You had your one chance to make a stand during what can be considered possibly the BEST opportunity to make some gains and here you are.

Enjoy being the bottom barrel of the industry.

[Transition9er2]

Well that was that.

Congrats to the second lowest paid group of 737 pilots in Canada after Swoop! *slow clap*

Thanks for setting the bar high.

Regional FOs in US continue to make more than you.

https://psaairlines.com/pilot-wage-calculator/

Says the guy who less than a year ago was a 2700 hour 'standards' Captain. Pay scale for Captains is higher the WJ and for a young company that is an achievement. I wont' go further than that as a number of other posters have explained those aspects. But trolls like you can keep flaming away under the pretense of wanting to help the industry while the rest of us see you for what you are - an inexperienced naysayer who has an agenda (whether personal or based on the airline you work for) and acts like a spoiled child rather than a professional.

I don’t necessarily agree with some of what Vanguard says on this site, but in this case he’s absolutely correct. You guys blew an opportunity for better improvements. Feels like this deal will leave you guys behind the rest of the industry.

Looking back, you won’t have a leg to stand on when you inevitably want to complain about contracts and the industry.

[digits_]

What % voted to pass? And what were the results?

[vrefplus5]

Well, I guess if we all have better deals in 2-3 years when the Flair group negotiates the next CBA (fingers crossed for us) then it’ll be all smiles for those guys!! Gotta say, I’m not surprised at the outcome. Wish you all well, it’s a tough industry out there. I understand 80% eligible, 67% pass. It’s a start for them.

[belgianmoon]

65% yes

[co-joe]

Sadly you will see all airlines pass you on pay, even swoop! This was your once in a generation chance to make significant gains. These Gaines are just cost of living increases. Nothing more, it’s to bad you guys couldn’t see that.

We will believe that when we see it. For now, WestJet (Swoop) is firmly in the lead as the lowest paying 737 operator on planet Earth. Next to them we have the lowest paying Dash and CRJ/ ERJ operators on the continent with Air Canada (Jazz), and the lowest paid widebody FOs on planet earth with Air Canada mainline. In between embarrassing our country even further is WestJet (Encore). Please continue with how Flair is bring the industry down though.

[Vanguard]

Sadly you will see all airlines pass you on pay, even swoop! This was your once in a generation chance to make significant gains. These Gaines are just cost of living increases. Nothing more, it’s to bad you guys couldn’t see that.

We will believe that when we see it. For now, WestJet (Swoop) is firmly in the lead as the lowest paying 737 operator on planet Earth. Next to them we have the lowest paying Dash and CRJ/ ERJ operators on the continent with Air Canada (Jazz), and the lowest paid widebody FOs on planet earth with Air Canada mainline. In between embarrassing our country even further is WestJet (Encore). Please continue with how Flair is bring the industry down though.

You clearly don't know Canadian aviation or it's history really well. Do you live under a rock?

You are correct that Swoop is currently the lowest 737 group but don't forget that that contract was arbitrated. It was forced for lack of better term. The company had approached WestJet pilots group multiple times to fix the pay however even though Swoop exists in the WestJet CA - WestJet Pilots have no ambition to spend the negotiating capital on LOU2. Swoop will most likely merge into Sunwing next year. Sunwing just got WJ wages which are WAY higher than even your TA right now btw (don't forget to add 20% + 12k bonus/7.3k bonus for WJ FOs to the payscale) ... Oh did I mention WJ also as YOS for FO to CA...YOU JUST VOTED TO HAVE FOs START AT Y1 AGAIN WHEN THEY UPGRADE!!! WAKE UP!!!

WestJet is currently in negotiations. You can bet your ass they won't take concessions on their contract.


Flair JUST HAD THEIR chance to negotiate a better deal. You succumbed the industry as the first airline to go into negotiations during what many would classify your best chance.

Jazz is currently going through a pilot shortage unable to fill their CA bid. The fact that they are even trying hard to get DEC...aside from that is their flow through issue. Now that Encore has COLA do you think Jazz will be behind?

Encore has just been given a COLA pre contract negotiations which is 33% gain to 20% gain from FO to top CA. They also removed Y1/Y2 payscales effectively for everyone. Approx 10k-15k in value. PRE CONTRACT!! They negotiate theirs next year when it opens.

As for AC - it took them quite a long time to get rid of the old guard. ACPA is slowly ending and P4C group will definitely bring change to their group when their CONTRACT OPENS in september. Can you imagine hiring 1000 pilots in the past 2yrs and hammering down flat pay on them? I sense there is some high resentment and desire to make positive change.


WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU SIGN A CRAP TA AND DEFEND IT? AGAIN YOU JUST NEGOTIATED YOUR FIRST PROPER TA AND CLAIMED THAT OH WE ARE A YOUNG AND NEW COMPANY MAKING IMAPCT ON THE MARKET. You are the first one to succumb to management pressure and many of us will walk by you and consider you bottom barrel pilots. It is what it is. Enough of this selling out our industry.

[goldeneagle]

Please continue with how Flair is bring the industry down though.

ofc they are going to come and crap on you Flair folks. They all accepted jobs that they believe dont pay enough, now they want you folks at Flair to 'fix it' for them.

[Vanguard]

Please continue with how Flair is bring the industry down though.

ofc they are going to come and crap on you Flair folks. They all accepted jobs that they believe dont pay enough, now they want you folks at Flair to 'fix it' for them.

Read my post above. They were the first to negotiate a contract. We didn't ask them to fix it. We asked them to show courage which clearly doesn't exist.

Mark these words. Flair Pilots will work hard and will complain once the other contracts come out.

[2112]

JFC arguing over who makes the least. It doesn't matter who you fly for, every single airline in this country is to blame. You all suck. Stop tearing each other down and get your MEC's in the same room.

[Chateau]

This TA was an abomination and anyone who doesn't see that is blind

The blocking windows to 92 hrs alone just gave the company huge flex during a pilot shortage. You just pissed away leverage and how many jobs were just washed away?

Working more is not a pay raise.

Hugely disappointed in this MEC and it is embarrassing it was an ALPA one.

Shame

[Apestogetherstrong]

Sadly you will see all airlines pass you on pay, even swoop! This was your once in a generation chance to make significant gains. These Gaines are just cost of living increases. Nothing more, it’s to bad you guys couldn’t see that.

We will believe that when we see it. For now, WestJet (Swoop) is firmly in the lead as the lowest paying 737 operator on planet Earth. Next to them we have the lowest paying Dash and CRJ/ ERJ operators on the continent with Air Canada (Jazz), and the lowest paid widebody FOs on planet earth with Air Canada mainline. In between embarrassing our country even further is WestJet (Encore). Please continue with how Flair is bring the industry down though.

You clearly don't know Canadian aviation or it's history really well. Do you live under a rock?

You are correct that Swoop is currently the lowest 737 group but don't forget that that contract was arbitrated. It was forced for lack of better term. The company had approached WestJet pilots group multiple times to fix the pay however even though Swoop exists in the WestJet CA - WestJet Pilots have no ambition to spend the negotiating capital on LOU2. Swoop will most likely merge into Sunwing next year. Sunwing just got WJ wages which are WAY higher than even your TA right now btw (don't forget to add 20% + 12k bonus/7.3k bonus for WJ FOs to the payscale) ... Oh did I mention WJ also as YOS for FO to CA...YOU JUST VOTED TO HAVE FOs START AT Y1 AGAIN WHEN THEY UPGRADE!!! WAKE UP!!!

WestJet is currently in negotiations. You can bet your ass they won't take concessions on their contract.


Flair JUST HAD THEIR chance to negotiate a better deal. You succumbed the industry as the first airline to go into negotiations during what many would classify your best chance.

Jazz is currently going through a pilot shortage unable to fill their CA bid. The fact that they are even trying hard to get DEC...aside from that is their flow through issue. Now that Encore has COLA do you think Jazz will be behind?

Encore has just been given a COLA pre contract negotiations which is 33% gain to 20% gain from FO to top CA. They also removed Y1/Y2 payscales effectively for everyone. Approx 10k-15k in value. PRE CONTRACT!! They negotiate theirs next year when it opens.

As for AC - it took them quite a long time to get rid of the old guard. ACPA is slowly ending and P4C group will definitely bring change to their group when their CONTRACT OPENS in september. Can you imagine hiring 1000 pilots in the past 2yrs and hammering down flat pay on them? I sense there is some high resentment and desire to make positive change.


WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU SIGN A CRAP TA AND DEFEND IT? AGAIN YOU JUST NEGOTIATED YOUR FIRST PROPER TA AND CLAIMED THAT OH WE ARE A YOUNG AND NEW COMPANY MAKING IMAPCT ON THE MARKET. You are the first one to succumb to management pressure and many of us will walk by you and consider you bottom barrel pilots. It is what it is. Enough of this selling out our industry.

Well said. This co-joe guy is Management's puppet. The 65% of pilots who voted yes to the contract. Its a huge shame!!!

[DanWEC]

Great job guys. Way to keep the spark going that was started by AC, and would have continued to gain momentum.

Management at every airline who were watching the signals of this negotiation very closely can breathe a collective sigh of relief.

Well done, on behalf of all pilot groups down the pipe who are approaching subsequent negotiations, we all thank you. Nothing like throwing out a golden gift of leverage at the best possible time.
Here you have a company who intends on massive, quick expansion, who dealt below average pay in a country who already has below average pay on the global scale, in the midst of a pilot shortage, and you managed to increase to.... Average, but with concessions.

Enjoy working the extra hours.

It was a step in the right direction but only on one foot, while we're miles away from everyone else. Why on earth did you take block concessions?

[flyingfool]

So Flair pilots passed a MOA for a blocking window of up to 92 hrs?

Didn't they just go off the end of the runway on a redeye turn?

Lots of bragging about single day turns. No worries about "get homeitis" when you're doing 92 hrs of turns (and redeyes) and your day goes off the rails due to "unforeseen circumstances"

I guess that big T4 of $150k solves all fatigue issues. Total joke

[rando]

Canadians are like women. They are more agreeable. We literally vote for corrupt governments and keep them in power. Why would we be any different where we work? This is how democracy works, and there’s a strong 50 percent of Canadians who don’t know how to say “no” because by default their brains just say “comply” and “agree”. I expect lots of more agreements to pass without reaching anywhere near what US regionals achieved.

[Blueontop]

Clap clap clap…

Way to go flair pilots.

Thanks for doing your part to “raise the bar”

The FIRST rule of negotiations is DONT ACCEPT THE FIRST OFFER! Period. Stop.

[Vanguard]

A lot of it has to do with all those EXPAT pilots too. Made some coin in the middle east - realized they are trash there. Got a whooping. Came back to Canada to accept any left seat job they could get their hands on. 115k to fly a 737? SURE BOSS. Let me bend over for you.

They probably sit at home happy that they come home everynight and dont have to sit on PPRUNE complaining how much their life sucks.


SO NOW they get 30k more to @#$! over the whole industry they'll happily do it again. Their CP is one of the first scabs to come to Swoop when WJ pilots were fighting to get Swoop in control. When your leader is a scab....what else can you expect. And Yes edited I am calling you out for the scab you are.

[dumpsterfire]

Their CP is one of the first scabs to come to Swoop when WJ pilots were fighting to get Swoop in control. When your leader is a scab....what else can you expect. And Yes Brian S. I am calling you out for the scab you are.

Is he the dude that lives in a van?

[Vanguard]

https://torontolife.com/life/weve-seen- ... -pandemic/


Yep. Brutal embarrassment.

[tbaylx]

There sure are a lot of people on this forum that don't work here that are very willing to volunteer Flair pilots to fight for better conditions at their airlines given they haven't been able to change it themselves.

The Flair pilot group and negotiating committee achieved up to a 35% compensation increase over 3 years. Not one other 705-passenger operation has done that. When you include the retention bonus that was negotiated, very few pilots who are currently at Flair will make less than $100k/year over the next 3 years, and most captains will see between $200-300k/year. I'm not aware of one other carrier that can currently claim that. Pay levels are within single-digit percentage of Air Canada's narrow body scale. Oh, and they did that in 18 months of negotiations while changing unions and in the first contract at an airline that had 1 airplane operating 2.5 years ago.

Maybe, instead of attacking the Flair pilots, you support and thank them for setting a reasonably high narrow body payscale floor in Canada that provides an excellent negotiating base to your own unions, mind your business and challenge your own MEC/negotiating committee to try and achieve similar percentage gains in their next contract negotiations. No doubt you'll be willing to back them by voting no to whatever they come up with and walking out for the betterment of the whole industry.

I'm confident when it's your turn in negotiations most Flair pilots would be more supportive and show more courtesy to you than you have for them.

[Vanguard]

There sure are a lot of people on this forum that don't work here that are very willing to volunteer Flair pilots to fight for better conditions at their airlines given they haven't been able to change it themselves.

The Flair pilot group and negotiating committee achieved up to a 35% compensation increase over 3 years. Not one other 705-passenger operation has done that. When you include the retention bonus that was negotiated, very few pilots who are currently at Flair will make less than $100k/year over the next 3 years, and most captains will see between $200-300k/year. I'm not aware of one other carrier that can currently claim that. Pay levels are within single-digit percentage of Air Canada's narrow body scale. Oh, and they did that in 18 months of negotiations while changing unions and in the first contract at an airline that had 1 airplane operating 2.5 years ago.

Maybe, instead of attacking the Flair pilots, you support and thank them for setting a reasonably high narrow body payscale floor in Canada that provides an excellent negotiating base to your own unions, mind your business and challenge your own MEC/negotiating committee to try and achieve similar percentage gains in their next contract negotiations. No doubt you'll be willing to back them by voting no to whatever they come up with and walking out for the betterment of the whole industry.

I'm confident when it's your turn in negotiations most Flair pilots would be more supportive and show more courtesy to you than you have for them.

Man you guys are so out of touch to reality like its not even funny. Can someone post that pay-scale picture that encompasses all airlines?

Pay levels are within single-digit percentage of Air Canada's narrow body scale. -- DO YOU REALIZE THAT AC PAY SCALES ARE NOT INDUSTRY STANDARD?! Do you honestly not have friends at both AC/WJ to tell you how much they actually make? I know captains that top 360k at WJ working 10-12 days a month. You're so out of touch its not even funny.


Your whole message reeks of management thanking their peasants. If that is how you really feel I am sorry I do think you are the scum group for our next decade...if Flair survives that long. Brutal. I am so sorry this is harsh but it is not far from the truth. You all really have a low bar.