Hiring after DECEMBER

[twa22]

So effective first year rates?

FO: $56,532
$46,332 ($51.48 * 900) + $10,200 ($850 * 12)

CA: $90,624
$80,424 (89.36 * 900) + $10,200 ($850 * 12)

roughly a 30% pay jump? What's the quality of life like at the moment?

Also to note, 2023 rates are $1 - $1.50 higher for FOs and $1.50 to $2 more for Captains. So the base number will be another $1000 or so higher.

As I understand it, if you are active 1 day in a month, you get $850 added to a pay cheque. It lasts until the new contract is negotiated. Current contract expires Dec 31, 2023 but sometimes a new contract won’t be finalized until a few months later. If that’s the case, the $850 payment continues.

Thanks for the explanation. Adding to what you mentioned regarding extra 1 to 2 bucks for FO and CA in 2023, the wages seem OK. I won't say these are good wages, BUT, considering what they were beforehand, it's much better... still a long way to improve but at least it seems we're starting to move in the right direction everywhere

[Admiral Benson]

Does anyone know why the negotiating team elected to go this route of an extra lump sum payment?

why not simply raise the hourly rate?

I guess it achieves the same goal but from the outside it just seems like a backwards, overcomplicated way of doing things

just wondering if theres more going on here?

[averageatbest]

Does anyone know why the negotiating team elected to go this route of an extra lump sum payment?

why not simply raise the hourly rate?

I guess it achieves the same goal but from the outside it just seems like a backwards, overcomplicated way of doing things

just wondering if theres more going on here?

The company was unwilling to attach the money to the hourly rate as they thought it would set a precedent for the upcoming collective agreement negotiations. The thing is, the money is still being given to the pilots and the company cannot pretend that it is not an increase in salary.

[Transition9er2]

[quote="Admiral Benson" post_id=1230059 time=1671637722 user_id=51793]
Does anyone know why the negotiating team elected to go this route of an extra lump sum payment?

why not simply raise the hourly rate?

I guess it achieves the same goal but from the outside it just seems like a backwards, overcomplicated way of doing things

just wondering if theres more going on here?
[/quote]

My understanding from buddies who are over there make it sound like this MOA is specifically to address a temporary cost of living increase and retention bonus until the contract is completely reviewed later in 2023.

Cost of living is the bump in pay and the $850/mnth is the retention bonus you receive (as long as you’re active 1 day per month).

From the outside looking in, this seems to be a pretty fair deal for Encore. My understanding is the pilot group gives up nothing and it gives them a decent bump in pay until they can negotiate their new contract.

This deal puts Encore starting wages at the same level as AC starting pay… and they give up nothing as I understand it. Not a bad deal.

I don’t have a stake in this fight, I’m just observing from the grand stands and interested to hear more feedback from the folks who this directly impacts.

[averageatbest]

Does anyone know why the negotiating team elected to go this route of an extra lump sum payment?

why not simply raise the hourly rate?

I guess it achieves the same goal but from the outside it just seems like a backwards, overcomplicated way of doing things

just wondering if theres more going on here?

My understanding from buddies who are over there make it sound like this MOA is specifically to address a temporary cost of living increase and retention bonus until the contract is completely reviewed later in 2023.

Cost of living is the bump in pay and the $850/mnth is the retention bonus you receive (as long as you’re active 1 day per month).

From the outside looking in, this seems to be a pretty fair deal for Encore. My understanding is the pilot group gives up nothing and it gives them a decent bump in pay until they can negotiate their new contract.

This deal puts Encore starting wages at the same level as AC starting pay… and they give up nothing as I understand it. Not a bad deal.

I don’t have a stake in this fight, I’m just observing from the grand stands and interested to hear more feedback from the folks who this directly impacts.

The opinion on the line seems split. It'll take a week or two for the pilots to review the offer and split the rumours from the facts and come to their conclusion as to whether the offer is acceptable or not.

[skyhighh]

How can this be a split opinion. It’s an MOA, not a negotiation, the pilot group would get a raise without being asked anything in return. How is that not a 100% yes is beyond me. If it’s enough, people won’t leave and that means everyone is happy. If it’s not enough, take the raise and quit like everyone else when your time comes… . If people keep leaving, the company will have to come back with MOA 2 or give more during the negotiations. It’s much easier to ask for more cash when you start from a higher pay scale.
Yes it’s not nearly enough, especially compared to south of the border… but it’s an MOA and comes with zero conditions. Voting NO to this would be utterly ridiculous. I really don’t understand what people are afraid of if voting yes.

[averageatbest]

How can this be a split opinion. It’s an MOA, not a negotiation, the pilot group would get a raise without being asked anything in return. How is that not a 100% yes is beyond me. If it’s enough, people won’t leave and that means everyone is happy. If it’s not enough, take the raise and quit like everyone else when your time comes… . If people keep leaving, the company will have to come back with MOA 2 or give more during the negotiations. It’s much easier to ask for more cash when you start from a higher pay scale.
Yes it’s not nearly enough, especially compared to south of the border… but it’s an MOA and comes with zero conditions. Voting NO to this would be utterly ridiculous. I really don’t understand what people are afraid of if voting yes.

Simple solution: Don't make decisions based on emotion.

[olivierw]

How can this be a split opinion. It’s an MOA, not a negotiation, the pilot group would get a raise without being asked anything in return. How is that not a 100% yes is beyond me. If it’s enough, people won’t leave and that means everyone is happy. If it’s not enough, take the raise and quit like everyone else when your time comes… . If people keep leaving, the company will have to come back with MOA 2 or give more during the negotiations. It’s much easier to ask for more cash when you start from a higher pay scale.
Yes it’s not nearly enough, especially compared to south of the border… but it’s an MOA and comes with zero conditions. Voting NO to this would be utterly ridiculous. I really don’t understand what people are afraid of if voting yes.

• I'm afraid that this will incentivize a lot of great pilots to join our training department (the biggest gains in this MOA target the trainers). Maybe so much so that we could finally start hiring 250hr pilots because of improved training programs and training capacity.

• I'm also afraid this will up the wages just enough to make Encore slightly more attractive than the other regionals.

Combine the two, and that gives the company more trainers and more trainees. Meaning they solve their pilot attraction problem without having to solve their pilot retention problem. Keeping in mind that Encore's model is to hire, train, and lose pilots, I don't think they're too concerned by losing an average of 10 pilots/month to attrition not including flow like they currently are, so long as they can keep hiring.

[skyhighh]

How can this be a split opinion. It’s an MOA, not a negotiation, the pilot group would get a raise without being asked anything in return. How is that not a 100% yes is beyond me. If it’s enough, people won’t leave and that means everyone is happy. If it’s not enough, take the raise and quit like everyone else when your time comes… . If people keep leaving, the company will have to come back with MOA 2 or give more during the negotiations. It’s much easier to ask for more cash when you start from a higher pay scale.
Yes it’s not nearly enough, especially compared to south of the border… but it’s an MOA and comes with zero conditions. Voting NO to this would be utterly ridiculous. I really don’t understand what people are afraid of if voting yes.

• I'm afraid that this will incentivize a lot of great pilots to join our training department (the biggest gains in this MOA target the trainers). Maybe so much so that we could finally start hiring 250hr pilots because of improved training programs and training capacity.

• I'm also afraid this will up the wages just enough to make Encore slightly more attractive than the other regionals.

Combine the two, and that gives the company more trainers and more trainees. Meaning they solve their pilot attraction problem without having to solve their pilot retention problem. Keeping in mind that Encore's model is to hire, train, and lose pilots, I don't think they're too concerned by losing an average of 10 pilots/month to attrition not including flow like they currently are, so long as they can keep hiring.

Afraid that a lot of great pilots join the training department? What great pilots? From where? Are you talking about all the captains that are leaving right left and center? You think a little pay bump will keep them at Encore? That would be ludicrous.

Up the wages just enough to make Encore attractive? How? Everyone offer more than Encore. As was mentioned before you can make more with better work condition on a King Air. This will not solve any crewing problem or pilot shortage. This will NOT solve pilot retention and hire, train, lose is not sustainable. Pilots are being hired with less and less experience and the captains or experienced FOs are leaving extremely fast.
Vote YES, and if it’s not enough (and it won’t be), wait for the company to come back with MOA #2 or start the negotiations on a strong foot and an already higher wage. You’re just saying yes to a pay bump, thinking that this minor increase could potentially save the company and take away the pilot shortage negotiation advantage is plain ignorance. My 2 cents.

[GetAGripen]

Calls for end of Jan class are going out.