Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

[cncpc]

I think that we have to remember that Inmarsat and the pings have never before been used to track an aircraft. This isn't an acknowledged or even proven tracking method. It's barely acknowledged now. It may well be total horseshit.

Round trip of an RF signal divided by two is a very common method of determining distance. Its used by a zillion different applications including Radar. Since the satellite knows when it sent the ping to within a few microseconds and they know how long the device takes to respond and the satellite knows when it received the response its basic math to compute the surface of a sphere on which the plane must be. They can even tell the error and compute two spheres. Intersect that sphere's surface with the surface of the earth s
(Solve the two equations) and presto you have an arc or arcs if you factor in the timing error. (Likely well below a microsecond). Thats all very basic hyperbolic trig and identical to what your GPS (except the distance calc is one way in GPS) does so no exotic magic there.

Then to determine if the plane was flying toward or away from the satellite the slight change in frequency can tell you. Good old Doppler effect, same as a police radar.. Again no magic, just basic physics.

A good grade 12 physics student could probably do the math given the data.

Seems pretty solid to me. The only things that could screw you up would be if the satelite clock had a huge error which is unlikely or if the device in the plane took variable amounts of time to respond, also unlikely.

I may be wrong, but I don't think the satellite and the aircraft were hooked into any mutual dialogue. The aircraft did not subscribe to that system, as I understand it, It was just pinging away at random, not in response to the Inmarsat. It seems to me that if the pings were responses to specific Inmarsat transmissions, there would be little doubt where the aircraft went. Last I heard, it was somewhere along a 2 or 3 thousand mile arc.

[Diadem]

As for MH370, theories about remote hijacking and being shot down at a US military base are highly improbable, and the much simpler explanation is that a crew member turned off the comms and tracking equipment before flying it out over the ocean. It's not a certainty, but it's by far the most realistic explanation, as opposed to something that's never ever happened before like the Russians taking control of an airliner in flight. As for someone knowing where it is, the ocean is big and the ocean is deep. It took 73 years to find the Titanic, and they knew where it was to a much closer degree than this aircraft.

[CFM Symphony]

The main flaw I see with the search, since the satellite info came in, is the assumed distance. I have no doubt in the accuracy of the pings and the subsequent track the searchers have established based on them. However the distance down the "corridor" was established based on estimated cruise speed and altitude, multiplied by a factor of the estimated fuel on board. When we are considering an unknown situation in the aircraft and the vastness of the ocean, this is a pretty big assumption.

As bleak as it may seem, I think at some stage, after repeated efforts, the search will be cancelled. Sometime in the future - perhaps decades away, when new technology exists - an eccentric billionaire may fund a program to find the missing airliner.

[cgzro]

may be wrong, but I don't think the satellite and the aircraft were hooked into any mutual dialogue. The aircraft did not subscribe to that system, as I understand it, It was just pinging away at random, not in response to the Inmarsat. It seems to me that if the pings were responses to specific Inmarsat transmissions, there would be little doubt where the aircraft went. Last I heard, it was somewhere along a 2 or 3 thousand mile arc.

Subscription validation in most broadcast ststems like cellular/satellite is done AFTER a minimal communication exchange is done with an authentication system. This allows a central authority to turn on and off features, expire free usage etc. So there will still be occasional checks that require a few messages be exchanged. In this case the period appears to be 1 hour between handshakes.

Random pinging is rarely allowed on such precious spectrum as a satellite otherwise transmissions would interfere with each other. Usually there is a scheduling mechanism with time slots for new requests so they dont interfere with existing granted requests.

So the distance measurement for the arcs makes perfect sense given how modern telecommunications systems work in general.

[Mig29]

Bede,

and do you??

Anyways.....I really hope someone comes up with some evidence of this 777, so that we may put this mystery to rest. It should only benefit and improve the safety factor in aviation if we ever figure out what happened to this airliner.

[cncpc]

may be wrong, but I don't think the satellite and the aircraft were hooked into any mutual dialogue. The aircraft did not subscribe to that system, as I understand it, It was just pinging away at random, not in response to the Inmarsat. It seems to me that if the pings were responses to specific Inmarsat transmissions, there would be little doubt where the aircraft went. Last I heard, it was somewhere along a 2 or 3 thousand mile arc.

Subscription validation in most broadcast ststems like cellular/satellite is done AFTER a minimal communication exchange is done with an authentication system. This allows a central authority to turn on and off features, expire free usage etc. So there will still be occasional checks that require a few messages be exchanged. In this case the period appears to be 1 hour between handshakes.

Random pinging is rarely allowed on such precious spectrum as a satellite otherwise transmissions would interfere with each other. Usually there is a scheduling mechanism with time slots for new requests so they dont interfere with existing granted requests.

So the distance measurement for the arcs makes perfect sense given how modern telecommunications systems work in general.

Thanks. Great explanation.

[teny1]

Vietnam's Foreign Ministry has instructed Vung Tau officials to meet with an oil rig worker who claims to have witnessed Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 fall off the country's southern coast early on Saturday.

[SAbadshah]

You can see why I chose the CIA operation. Location of last known position plus rumoured overflight of Khota Baru and other islands in the Straight of Malacca — draw a straight line west — and you'll roughly arrive at Diego Garcia, the US/UK airbase in the middle of the Indian Ocean, at a distance of about 2000 nautical miles from Khota Baru. operational hub for the US military, the UK navy, and several other clandestine government organisations.

[Meatservo]

Vietnam's Foreign Ministry has instructed Vung Tau officials to meet with an oil rig worker who claims to have witnessed Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 fall off the country's southern coast early on Saturday.

This is why grammar is so important.

Did the oil rig worker observe the actual aircraft falling off the coast of Vietnam on Saturday?

Or did the Vietnam government instruct officials to meet with the oil rig worker on Saturday?

[TG]

You can see why I chose the CIA operation. Location of last known position plus rumoured overflight of Khota Baru and other islands in the Straight of Malacca — draw a straight line west — and you'll roughly arrive at Diego Garcia, the US/UK airbase in the middle of the Indian Ocean, at a distance of about 2000 nautical miles from Khota Baru. operational hub for the US military, the UK navy, and several other clandestine government organisations.

Nice first post