Canadian Airline Fun.

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rookiepilot
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Canadian Airline Fun.

Post by rookiepilot »

Finished a short US trip recently and scheduled to return home on one of our beloved mainline Canuck carriers. Weather was well forecasted the night before but flight showed on time.

Come the morning they canceled the flight and rebooked me for 2 days later. Later (after i got home) they canceled that replacement flight as well. Who knows when I’d actually make it home with them. Shades of SW….but wasn’t them. Or anyone like them.

I said no thanks, clicked on the offered link to get my refund, got that confirmed, and then rebooked myself on a well regarded US carrier. Was a challenge and major delays, (icing) but after 15 hours, a stop and a reroute, they got me home, same day as I originally planned.

Everyone had a smile, even. Everyone tried really hard. Thats all one can ask.

Still haven’t seen promised refund from said Canadian Carrier. Of course with CTA backed up 2 years, one can get away with anything now, right? Even stealing.

I’ve done long 2 international trips since the previous fiasco months ago. All 6 legs in business class. Nice flights. Nice staff. Cost me some decent $$$, worth it.

Didn’t even consider a Canadian carrier. No chance.

Don’t cry for a bailout here when our homegrown disasters cry for mercy in the future —- a sure thing.

They couldn’t care less about their own customers IMO.

I know no one cares, but here is the pax perspective.

Its one thing to have horrible weather and staffing issues (not the front line rep’s fault)

Its the attitude towards customers, from the top to the bottom, I can’t stand. Its not confined to airlines. It’s almost becoming a Canadian thing — rudeness and indifference in service.
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GIVCE!
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Re: Canadian Airline Fun.

Post by GIVCE! »

This. I recently returned on KLM from SA via Amsterdam. No problems, no delays and fantastic service. All in miserable weather. Baggage all there on arrival to boot. Just lucky? Or a sign of the degrading state of affairs in Canada? I feel we are drifting toward the latter as super sonic speed…time will tell I guess. But you are so right…no one seems to care at the top of the chain. 100%
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rookiepilot
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Re: Canadian Airline Fun.

Post by rookiepilot »

Its theft.

And I spent over 20K on those 6 long haul business segments (2 people) --- with foreign carriers.

Next trip is in 6 weeks. Then a 4th after that.

Not a dime for Canadian carriers. Stupid idiots!

Treat me like sh-- in economy class, I'll book business with someone else. Screw you.

Even AC's J class sucks compared to any foreign carrier (not US)

I've experienced rudeness there too. ????

Alienate your best customers paying size for their seat. Let me know how that works out!
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Last edited by rookiepilot on Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:49 pm, edited 5 times in total.
TalkingPie
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Re: Canadian Airline Fun.

Post by TalkingPie »

From where I sit, things have been deteriorating from the top down in Canadian aviation since the pandemic. Management is either asleep at the wheel or has different priorities than what one would logically expect.

Operations have been more disorganized - catering, planning, staffing levels under and above the wing - across the board. Contracts have been willfully ignored to save money and from where I'm sitting front line employee morale is at the lowest I've seen in 15 years. I suspect it's a combination of penny-pinching and general incompetence. At the director and vice president level, long-time people are moving on, and it isn't the bad ones who are jumping ship.

We peons never have the full view, but it looks to me like management has been resting on their laurels. Before the pandemic there was growth and record profits with little effort. During the pandemic no one could fly anyway and the name of the game was to reduce costs as much as possible and play politics to secure government loans and executive bonuses. Aside from maybe cargo, management hasn't actually had to work to win market share or employee loyalty in a while and it shows.

Weather is always going to be a reality in Canada that no one can control, but how cancellations and delays are handled leaves a lot of room for improvement. The big airlines' treatment of customers during IRROPS is often pretty brutal.

I think there's probably more opportunity than ever for start-up competition to make a dent. Porter seems to be making some moves in improving the customer experience and I hope they succeed in forcing the big guys to up their game.
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schnitzel2k3
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Re: Canadian Airline Fun.

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

TalkingPie wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:42 pm I think there's probably more opportunity than ever for start-up competition to make a dent. Porter seems to be making some moves in improving the customer experience and I hope they succeed in forcing the big guys to up their game.
I think Porter has to be careful, it sounds like they weren't thinking other operators would be planning salary bumps for attraction and retention of crews so soon. Jazz is potentially going to see a bump, Flair got a jump (and Lynx I guess followed suit?).

Porter has an incredible product, but cracks are forming and manpower will untimately be their downfall if they don't aggressively attack the 'shortage'. And their current payscale on either Dash or Emb are not competitive, particularly after Flair and Encore bumps. AC has it sort of in the bag, essentially a monopoly of attraction and retention. Westjet is scrambling. Air Transat is a shell of its former self. And everything else is...dealing.

As far as flying these days, sadly, US carriers are typically a better option.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Canadian Airline Fun.

Post by rookiepilot »

I wonder how big the kickbags and bribes are for the government to ignore everything.

That could never happen here! :lol: :roll: :shock:
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Re: Canadian Airline Fun.

Post by pelmet »

rookiepilot wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:39 pm Finished a short US trip recently and scheduled to return home on one of our beloved mainline Canuck carriers. Weather was well forecasted the night before but flight showed on time.

Come the morning they canceled the flight and rebooked me for 2 days later. Later (after i got home) they canceled that replacement flight as well. Who knows when I’d actually make it home with them. Shades of SW….but wasn’t them. Or anyone like them.

I said no thanks, clicked on the offered link to get my refund, got that confirmed, and then rebooked myself on a well regarded US carrier. Was a challenge and major delays, (icing) but after 15 hours, a stop and a reroute, they got me home, same day as I originally planned.

Everyone had a smile, even. Everyone tried really hard. Thats all one can ask.

Still haven’t seen promised refund from said Canadian Carrier. Of course with CTA backed up 2 years, one can get away with anything now, right? Even stealing.

I’ve done long 2 international trips since the previous fiasco months ago. All 6 legs in business class. Nice flights. Nice staff. Cost me some decent $$$, worth it.

Didn’t even consider a Canadian carrier. No chance.

Don’t cry for a bailout here when our homegrown disasters cry for mercy in the future —- a sure thing.

They couldn’t care less about their own customers IMO.

I know no one cares, but here is the pax perspective.

Its one thing to have horrible weather and staffing issues (not the front line rep’s fault)

Its the attitude towards customers, from the top to the bottom, I can’t stand. Its not confined to airlines. It’s almost becoming a Canadian thing — rudeness and indifference in service.
Welcome to the real world.

I booked a cruise and flew down to the Caribbean to board the ship. I got to the ship only to be told that I had made a cancellation the previous day and that the ship was full including my room. They finally admitted that they screwed up and would refund my money. No sign of it yet(pay dispute initiated with Visa). At least I was able to charter a light airplane to a couple of nearby islands for an enjoyable day(interesting flights too) aside from hanging around the island at a resort for a few days.

Just read an article that they are overloaded with passengers. As if they care about me.
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8895
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Re: Canadian Airline Fun.

Post by 8895 »

schnitzel2k3 wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:30 pm
TalkingPie wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:42 pm I think there's probably more opportunity than ever for start-up competition to make a dent. Porter seems to be making some moves in improving the customer experience and I hope they succeed in forcing the big guys to up their game.
I think Porter has to be careful, it sounds like they weren't thinking other operators would be planning salary bumps for attraction and retention of crews so soon. Jazz is potentially going to see a bump, Flair got a jump (and Lynx I guess followed suit?).

Porter has an incredible product, but cracks are forming and manpower will untimately be their downfall if they don't aggressively attack the 'shortage'. And their current payscale on either Dash or Emb are not competitive, particularly after Flair and Encore bumps. AC has it sort of in the bag, essentially a monopoly of attraction and retention. Westjet is scrambling. Air Transat is a shell of its former self. And everything else is...dealing.

As far as flying these days, sadly, US carriers are typically a better option.
I agree that Porter needs to up their wages, but out of curiosity what makes you say that the (hopefully) pay increases throughout the industry are catching them off guard? Figured the timing and aircraft choice for the expansion were simply based on being able to try and grab market share as soon as possible coming out of the pandemic.
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schnitzel2k3
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Re: Canadian Airline Fun.

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

8895 wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:47 am
schnitzel2k3 wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:30 pm
TalkingPie wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:42 pm I think there's probably more opportunity than ever for start-up competition to make a dent. Porter seems to be making some moves in improving the customer experience and I hope they succeed in forcing the big guys to up their game.
I think Porter has to be careful, it sounds like they weren't thinking other operators would be planning salary bumps for attraction and retention of crews so soon. Jazz is potentially going to see a bump, Flair got a jump (and Lynx I guess followed suit?).

Porter has an incredible product, but cracks are forming and manpower will untimately be their downfall if they don't aggressively attack the 'shortage'. And their current payscale on either Dash or Emb are not competitive, particularly after Flair and Encore bumps. AC has it sort of in the bag, essentially a monopoly of attraction and retention. Westjet is scrambling. Air Transat is a shell of its former self. And everything else is...dealing.

As far as flying these days, sadly, US carriers are typically a better option.
I agree that Porter needs to up their wages, but out of curiosity what makes you say that the (hopefully) pay increases throughout the industry are catching them off guard? Figured the timing and aircraft choice for the expansion were simply based on being able to try and grab market share as soon as possible coming out of the pandemic.
If they were prepared and planning for a salary war, they would've adjusted it accordingly with Flairs new contract. They were definitely banking on shiny plane interest and saving a few in the salary department. I think the shine is fading slowly as everyone else makes headway on WAWCON, and it's going to transition to a massive struggle to staff 50, let alone 100 jets with the current salaries.

What are they planning 2 new jets a month? They already need 70-90 pilots for their current fleet to run at capacity - and now you're adding 20ish pilots per month at the low end.

Pay needs to be adjusted asap fleetwide to signal to the industry they are serious about growth. Every week it isn't is to their detriment.
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