Cargojet vs Sunwing

[cloudseeker]

Hi everyone,

Just wondering if you had a choice which one would you pick for someone who live in YOW area?
2500TT, 2000 Multi turbine, 705 experience.

Cheers!

[averageatbest]

Hi everyone,

Just wondering if you had a choice which one would you pick for someone who live in YOW area?
2500TT, 2000 Multi turbine, 705 experience.

Cheers!

Cargojet - https://www.freightwaves.com/news/union ... or-support

Sunwing - https://www.alpa.org/news-and-events/ne ... g-airlines

They are both companies that do not value their employees.

If you're going to get screwed, you might as well be paid for it. You'll start at $70k+ at Cargojet and $55k+ at Sunwing.

[frog]

Actually you start at 62314 $ MMG at Sunwing.

[ant_321]

I hate red eyes with a passion. For that reason cargojet would be my last choice for a jet job in canada.

[cloudseeker]

I hate red eyes with a passion. For that reason cargojet would be my last choice for a jet job in canada.

That's right! I am not a big fan of red eyes either. But what worries me about SWG is the possible merger with WS. Plus who knows what will happen to the European deployment in the future.

My understanding with CJT is that they do a mix of daylights/red eyes flying which imho not too bad.

[rudder]

Go to Morningstar as a 757 FO flying 250-400 hours per year starting at $90k.

Job ad has been reposted.

[BigQ]

SWG deployment announcement was made in the last 48 hours. 7 planes in UK for TUI, 2 in Prague for Smartwings.

[cloudseeker]

Go to Morningstar as a 757 FO flying 250-400 hours per year starting at $90k.

Job ad has been reposted.

It's very tempting but I live in YOW area and don't know if commuting is an option or not.

[cloudseeker]

SWG deployment announcement was made in the last 48 hours. 7 planes in UK for TUI, 2 in Prague for Smartwings.

That's good to know. Thanks a lot.

[DanWEC]

Is commuting from Yow an option for Cargojet?
I'd immediately think that Transat, AC, or Sunwing with the YUL base would make more sense, but I don't know your situation.

[co-joe]

Is commuting from Yow an option for Cargojet?
I'd immediately think that Transat, AC, or Sunwing with the YUL base would make more sense, but I don't know your situation.

The life of hell that is being a commuter is what would influence my decision more than anything as well. Of the two, Sunwing would be waaaay better as a commuter, even if you can't get yow head starts, at least you have a short drive/ flight to yul or yyz. With CargoJet are you going to drive 7 hours to yhm (no/ little jumpseat agreements)? So you're moving to the centre of the universe then.

[pilot96140]

Lots of YOW/YUL CJT guys commute including myself. We have jumpseats with AC as well as you can commute on company aircraft only stipulation is you must be in YHM 12 hours prior to report for "rest" if you want to commute on company equipment. You can easily bid your schedule for longer pairings and only have to commute to YHM twice per month. Lots of commuters from all over so its by no means uncommon.

15 GDO's per month with CJT as well as 15 working days per month. Yes lots of night flying but there is definitely a good mix of daytime trips. Some trips you report for 23:00 which technically counts as 1 full work day even though it is only an hour. Easily to drive up in the morning, take a nap then report for duty. Some pairings you'll report for late like that and do one single 2 hour sector then have a 24-48 hour layover. I feel like the whole "cargo only flies at night" comes across as daunting but my current roster I have 7 "night shifts" some only being a couple of hours.

Think the big thing really is if you don't mind commuting. I don't mind having to drive to YHM a couple times a month if it means that I can live where I want to live. There's also the job security consideration the comes into play. Sunwing can potentially be risky with any type of economic uncertainty where in my opinion cargo has some more stability. They have ambitious growth plans and to my knowledge I don't think we have ever really had a major cargo player in Canada so it could be real interesting in the next few years.

[Chaxterium]

Go to Morningstar as a 757 FO flying 250-400 hours per year starting at $90k.

Job ad has been reposted.

It's very tempting but I live in YOW area and don't know if commuting is an option or not.

Morningstar has become a little less commuter friendly lately unfortunately. Ottawa is probably doable but it would be a lot of driving for sure.

[newlygrounded]

Lots of YOW/YUL CJT guys commute including myself. We have jumpseats with AC as well as you can commute on company aircraft only stipulation is you must be in YHM 12 hours prior to report for "rest" if you want to commute on company equipment. You can easily bid your schedule for longer pairings and only have to commute to YHM twice per month. Lots of commuters from all over so its by no means uncommon.

15 GDO's per month with CJT as well as 15 working days per month. Yes lots of night flying but there is definitely a good mix of daytime trips. Some trips you report for 23:00 which technically counts as 1 full work day even though it is only an hour. Easily to drive up in the morning, take a nap then report for duty. Some pairings you'll report for late like that and do one single 2 hour sector then have a 24-48 hour layover. I feel like the whole "cargo only flies at night" comes across as daunting but my current roster I have 7 "night shifts" some only being a couple of hours.

Think the big thing really is if you don't mind commuting. I don't mind having to drive to YHM a couple times a month if it means that I can live where I want to live. There's also the job security consideration the comes into play. Sunwing can potentially be risky with any type of economic uncertainty where in my opinion cargo has some more stability. They have ambitious growth plans and to my knowledge I don't think we have ever really had a major cargo player in Canada so it could be real interesting in the next few years.

It will be interesting to see their financials in a few months, their growth was basically all outside of their core business. They are pushing back deliveries on some of their freighters too. I guess the overestimated the covid supply chain boom along with a lot of other companies.

[Throwaway91]

I've worked at both. Ultimately, if you're committed to living in YOW and not willing to consider relocation, it's all going to come down to your potential commute and trying to find the best quality of life.

At Sunwing, you have the option of taking a YUL base, which means you could drive in from YOW - there are several pilots that do this. As a junior pilot, you're going to be getting a lot of multi-day pairings, which is exactly what you want as a commuter. I don't recall what the reserve call-out window was off the top of my head as it's been a few years, but it might be tight as far as driving in from YOW. Someone who's still employed there can fill you in better on that one.

At Cargojet, you're going to have to make your way to YHM. I commuted during my time there and it was manageable but far from an ideal situation. As another poster above mentioned, if you're requesting the jumpseat on company aircraft for commuting purposes, you're required to be in YHM 12 hours before the start of your pairing. Since there may only be one flight a day from YOW-YHM, that often means commuting in to YHM a day early in order to be rested for your pairing as per company policy. The company also likes to deadhead pilots around on company aircraft, and you might find yourself bumped out of a seat depending on how many pilots are on the flight. Only happened to me once, but it can happen. After six months you'll get passes on AC, but with no direct flights to YHM, it can still be a tricky situation, as now you have to get yourself from YYZ to YHM by whatever means you have available.

In terms of the actual job itself, notwithstanding any commuting considerations, if I had to choose between both at the present time, it would be Cargojet in a heartbeat. Significantly better pay, lots of opportunities for overtime, varied and interesting flying (not all overnights as some would have you believe - and the opportunity to do some overseas flying once you're ETOPS qualified, or down to Mexico, Central America, Brazil, etc.), and ambitious growth plans over the next few years. Lots of hiring going on meaning you will advance up the seniority list quickly. They also seem to have a solid management team in place on the flight operations side. ALPA also seems to be taking relations between the pilot group and management in a better direction than was seen previously under Unifor.

During my time at Sunwing, I found their management team to be capricious and dishonest in their dealings with the pilot group. If you needed to reach out to them regarding concerns, they were often MIA. Qualified pilots were passed over for upgrades without explanation - seemingly based on how well-liked they were by the old boys club that did all the decision-making. Layovers down south were nice, but not worth the tradeoff in job security, as the COVID shutdown painfully illustrated. European deployments are an exciting opportunity as well, but no one can say how much longer they will last. Plus, SW pilots are staring down the barrel of a merger with WestJet in the near future. As with any merger, there will be employee groups that will be happy at the end of the day, and there will be those that are unhappy. I would absolutely try to avoid being employed at a company that's about to go through a merger of that scale unless I had no other options available to me.

Anyhow - that's my two cents. You can drop me a PM if you'd like any additional information.

[cloudseeker]

I've worked at both. Ultimately, if you're committed to living in YOW and not willing to consider relocation, it's all going to come down to your potential commute and trying to find the best quality of life.

At Sunwing, you have the option of taking a YUL base, which means you could drive in from YOW - there are several pilots that do this. As a junior pilot, you're going to be getting a lot of multi-day pairings, which is exactly what you want as a commuter. I don't recall what the reserve call-out window was off the top of my head as it's been a few years, but it might be tight as far as driving in from YOW. Someone who's still employed there can fill you in better on that one.

At Cargojet, you're going to have to make your way to YHM. I commuted during my time there and it was manageable but far from an ideal situation. As another poster above mentioned, if you're requesting the jumpseat on company aircraft for commuting purposes, you're required to be in YHM 12 hours before the start of your pairing. Since there may only be one flight a day from YOW-YHM, that often means commuting in to YHM a day early in order to be rested for your pairing as per company policy. The company also likes to deadhead pilots around on company aircraft, and you might find yourself bumped out of a seat depending on how many pilots are on the flight. Only happened to me once, but it can happen. After six months you'll get passes on AC, but with no direct flights to YHM, it can still be a tricky situation, as now you have to get yourself from YYZ to YHM by whatever means you have available.

In terms of the actual job itself, notwithstanding any commuting considerations, if I had to choose between both at the present time, it would be Cargojet in a heartbeat. Significantly better pay, lots of opportunities for overtime, varied and interesting flying (not all overnights as some would have you believe - and the opportunity to do some overseas flying once you're ETOPS qualified, or down to Mexico, Central America, Brazil, etc.), and ambitious growth plans over the next few years. Lots of hiring going on meaning you will advance up the seniority list quickly. They also seem to have a solid management team in place on the flight operations side. ALPA also seems to be taking relations between the pilot group and management in a better direction than was seen previously under Unifor.

During my time at Sunwing, I found their management team to be capricious and dishonest in their dealings with the pilot group. If you needed to reach out to them regarding concerns, they were often MIA. Qualified pilots were passed over for upgrades without explanation - seemingly based on how well-liked they were by the old boys club that did all the decision-making. Layovers down south were nice, but not worth the tradeoff in job security, as the COVID shutdown painfully illustrated. European deployments are an exciting opportunity as well, but no one can say how much longer they will last. Plus, SW pilots are staring down the barrel of a merger with WestJet in the near future. As with any merger, there will be employee groups that will be happy at the end of the day, and there will be those that are unhappy. I would absolutely try to avoid being employed at a company that's about to go through a merger of that scale unless I had no other options available to me.

Anyhow - that's my two cents. You can drop me a PM if you'd like any additional information.

Thanks a lot, really appreciate it and please check your PM.
Cheers!

[frog]

Lots of good infos on Sunwing by throwaway. I'll add a few things on Sunwing (I know nothing about Cargojet).

On reserve you have 2 hours to report. There a few pilots in yow based in yul and it seems to work for them. The thing is that the call on reserve is pretty rare, it happens sure, but with 2 hours to report not so often. Company will call first people on GDOs or people willing to fly on regular days off. No more draft by the way. Also as a junior pilot, you're the last one to get the reserve call, they will call senior reserve first.
Deployment : this year 9 aircraft deploying, it means over 200 pilots will go. So for now, deployment is still a good way to make good money and tour Europe.
For the merger, nobody knows what will happen. It is all speculation. Good or bad.

For the upgrades, it got better lately.

[ads-b]

I’ll revise what frog just wrote. It’s a tad bit erroneous. Reserve callout is minimum of 2 hours to report. You could live 4 hours away. Nothing saying you have to report in under 2 hours. You have 1 free don’t pick up your phone on reserve a month without getting trouble. Several do this every month. If you’re senior you can pass your reserve down until it makes it to the most junior.

You can easily live in Ottawa if you choose.

Cheers

[frog]

4 hours away? I don't see how it could work for a reserve call. Once you get the call, you must report in 2 hours or less if you can. Yes you have a free one and you have 15 min before you acknowledge the call. So it really is 2 hours and 15 min.

[Adam Oke]

Must? or Every effort.

13.4.4 A Reserve FCM will be considered on call at all times during his RAP. Two hours is
the minimum advance notice to report for Duty. Crew Scheduling will make every effort
to contact and assign Duty to a FCM on Reserve as far in advance as possible and
the FCM will make every effort to report for Duty in less than two hours if required.