Be Ready

[gswartz]

CALGARY - The union that represents pilots at WestJet says it is asking for federal assistance after months of failing to reach a contract agreement with the airline.

The WestJet Master Executive Council, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, International (ALPA), says it has filed a request for conciliation assistance with the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service.

The federal Minister of Labour now has 15 days to appoint a conciliation officer. Once appointed, the officer would work with the parties for 60 days to reach an agreement.

If both parties remain at an impasse following this period, a 21-day cooling-off period begins before the parties can consider other alternatives, including a strike or lockout.

ALPA, which represents approximately 1,800 pilots at WestJet and its low-cost subsidiary Swoop, says it has been negotiating unsuccessfully with Calgary-based WestJet since September.

The pilots’ first union contract, which expired at the end of 2022, was the result of an arbitrated settlement reached in 2018. That settlement averted a threatened pilots’ strike, as WestJet pilots had voted in favour of job action after contract talks fell apart.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published Feb. 10, 2023.

[Dronepiper]

Why did arbitration happen back in 2018? How can it be avoided?

[Canadaflyer46]

Why did arbitration happen back in 2018? How can it be avoided?

Strike vote passed 96%, CB threatened to lock us out. I believe the MEC at the time agreed to proceed to arbitration to stop the lock out.
The current reps have promised to avoid an arbitrated contract at all costs after the last 4 years.

[Canpilot7]

Why did arbitration happen back in 2018? How can it be avoided?

Strike vote passed 96%, CB threatened to lock us out. I believe the MEC at the time agreed to proceed to arbitration to stop the lock out.
The current reps have promised to avoid an arbitrated contract at all costs after the last 4 years.

That's good for your chances - Onex can't afford to lockout for months on end. The lost market share to the new upstarts would be too costly. Here's hoping everyone in teal is ready to be patient and actually use their leverage.

Feel bad for everyone there right now - when you get a strike vote like that, it's not like they WANTED to give in for their last contract. Hopefully now, with all the leverage in the world (there couldn't be more pilot job openings if they tried), they get what they're looking for.

[Dronepiper]

Could westjet even afford a strike or lockout for more then a week?

I imagine just one week of lost profits would be greater then any gains looking to be had by the pilot group.

[averageatbest]

Could westjet even afford a strike or lockout for more then a week?

I imagine just one week of lost profits would be greater then any gains looking to be had by the pilot group.

They can't afford a strike notice let alone the strike itself.

The question is, does management know that they can't afford it?

The pilots are out for blood.

[gswartz]

Why did arbitration happen back in 2018? How can it be avoided?

There's also a completely different MEC this time around. The original MEC was friendly with the company, whereas this current MEC is extremely militant.

Could westjet even afford a strike or lockout for more then a week?

I imagine just one week of lost profits would be greater then any gains looking to be had by the pilot group.

I'm more concerned with the serious question: Can WJ pilots afford a strike for more than a week? I really hope everyone has been preparing financially over the past year to enable themselves. The union doesn't use the saying "Be Ready" for nothing.

[Transition9er2]

The timeline above puts a potential walkout around June!

Nice, this is gonna get spicy!

[lostaviator]

The timeline above puts a potential walkout around June!

Nice, this is gonna get spicy!

May long weekend actually.

[Dronepiper]

I just hope the union is careful when it comes to a strike. If they tried to strike during may long the government would 100% force them back to work. They shouldn’t strike all at once. It should be introduced in phases. For example 20% of the work force on rotating strikes through out the week. 20% strikes on a Monday, but goes back to work Tuesday, then another 20% strikes on Wednesday.

[dhc2pilot]

I just hope the union is careful when it comes to a strike. If they tried to strike during may long the government would 100% force them back to work. They shouldn’t strike all at once. It should be introduced in phases. For example 20% of the work force on rotating strikes through out the week. 20% strikes on a Monday, but goes back to work Tuesday, then another 20% strikes on Wednesday.

@#$! the government…..strike if you have to. Enough with allowing companies to use the government to do the dirty work for them.

[lostaviator]

The courts have ruled time and time again that back to work legislation is not constitutional. Everyone just keeps caving when they are told to get back to work.

We all need to learn how to stand our ground like the education workers in Ontario. I don't really care about a Federal Cabinet Minister telling us to go back to work. That minister is going to be long gone and enjoying a generous pension by the time we find ourselves here again (CA3).

[rookiepilot]

I find it highly amusing, on this pro union site, that the group that did stand up — the truckers in Ottawa — got almost universally trashed on this site, because a bunch of rich Ottawa bureaucrats were inconvenienced.

At least they had the guts to stand up for something.

Want change? It’ll cost you.

Let me know when the likes of NewlyGrounded is walking a protest line, in front of tear gas wielding police. I’d like to see that.

Carry on.

[C-GGGQ]

So what your saying is its probably bad to accept a GS offer right now….

[Canpilot7]

Why did arbitration happen back in 2018? How can it be avoided?

There's also a completely different MEC this time around. The original MEC was friendly with the company, whereas this current MEC is extremely militant.

Could westjet even afford a strike or lockout for more then a week?

I imagine just one week of lost profits would be greater then any gains looking to be had by the pilot group.

I'm more concerned with the serious question: Can WJ pilots afford a strike for more than a week? I really hope everyone has been preparing financially over the past year to enable themselves. The union doesn't use the saying "Be Ready" for nothing.

This is a big key to sustained union activity. If everyone hasn't got an emergency fund for a few months of expenses, they give away their leverage. A week of lost earnings for a career of gains is an easy cost benefit to do. Just have to have the $s set aside, which hurts to do given the low take home for many.

[Canadaflyer46]

WestJet know a lot of their pilots are broke. They like to keep us hungry for money. We’re chomping at the bit for overtime that way. I do think they’ve also underestimated how militant this pilot group is after 4 years of abuse though.
We either get an industry-leading contract, or this company is gonna go under IMHO. They won’t admit to it during negotiations, but they’re clearly having huge attraction/retention issues. Losing 30 pilots a month and people are no-showing for ground schools or leaving halfway through. Forget about whatever fairytale growth plans they have, they can’t even spare any FOs to upgrade. Upgrades were planned at 200 this year and so far are at 20 or so as of the May awards. (Monthly bids).
I believe the raise ALPA is demanding is in the mid 40%, but that’s second hand information.
I’m ready.

[rando]

I find it highly amusing, on this pro union site, that the group that did stand up — the truckers in Ottawa — got almost universally trashed on this site, because a bunch of rich Ottawa bureaucrats were inconvenienced.

At least they had the guts to stand up for something, instead of just complaining on a forum.

Want change? It’ll cost you.

Let me know when the likes of NewlyGrounded is walking a protest line, in front of tear gas wielding police. I’d like to see that.

Lot easier to browbeat others to walk a protest, or even call your MP, than do it yourself.

Carry on.

Truckers getting trashed big time in Ottawa

29F27443-6322-4F49-810A-75793CB0D2B1.jpeg (1.18 MiB) Viewed 6651 times

Ram ranch. Ha. The division is comedic.

[averageatbest]

Being mandated back to work from a strike can be fatiguing. It's a good thing that WestJet and Encore have pay protection for fatigue book offs.

[waterruddersup]

Being mandated back to work from a strike can be fatiguing. It's a good thing that WestJet and Encore have pay protection for fatigue book offs.

Exactly. The stress of it all. There's no way that I am safe to fly today, or tomorrow, ...or this month.

[aerobod]

With a prolonged labour dispute, there is always the possibility that Onex will just cut it’s losses (especially with the accumulated Covid debt) and file for bankruptcy for WS, as there probably won’t be many interested buyers as the WS debt approaches it’s asset value (if it isn’t already there if the brand doesn’t have much value left in it). They have put a couple of major acquisitions into bankruptcy in the past:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/onex-s ... n-1.406360

https://www.reuters.com/article/cbusine ... 9K20120328

WS as a bankruptcy wind-up may have more value to Onex in the future as a tax write-off against other investment gains, as opposed to investing more money to get it back into reasonable profitability.

[billhill]

Well wouldn't that be a kick in the arrs..you never know...

[lostaviator]

With a prolonged labour dispute, there is always the possibility that Onex will just cut it’s losses (especially with the accumulated Covid debt) and file for bankruptcy for WS, as there probably won’t be many interested buyers as the WS debt approaches it’s asset value (if it isn’t already there if the brand doesn’t have much value left in it). They have put a couple of major acquisitions into bankruptcy in the past:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/onex-s ... n-1.406360

https://www.reuters.com/article/cbusine ... 9K20120328

WS as a bankruptcy wind-up may have more value to Onex in the future as a tax write-off against other investment gains, as opposed to investing more money to get it back into reasonable profitability.

They could, but I don’t think so.

1) GS has been dreaming about owning an airline for decades
2) The worst of the financial pain is behind us. Why jump ship when you are just starting to see returns, again?
3) Filing for bankruptcy when you have a pending acquisition (SW) looks a little suspicious. Remember, WestJet is buying SW not Onex.

On the flip slide, maybe it is a possibility and why we have seen the company making announcements with the provincial government and getting cozy with the opposition party.

[Canpilot7]

I doubt they'd fold WestJet AFTER the recovery has happened this quickly. They haven't had to file a company in the last decade, and it doesn't help shareholder confidence when you have to make the public "oops" announcement that bankruptcy represents as a buyout firm. Their shareholders expect them doing a fair bit better than "breaking-even".

But it's a reminder of why now is such a good time to negotiate. There are good pilot jobs for all qualified pilots. Every pilot at westjet with an ATPL could either go for a quick upgrade at flair on the same type, or head into one of the countless bizjets looking for captains now. All jobs with good pay that can be had immediately. Negotiating without downside risk is great.

[aerobod]

I think there are a number of decision factors that could determine the longevity of the company and Onex’s willingness to keep it in the portfolio:

- GS has recently stepped aside into a more advisory / retirement mode, so his day-to-day influence and willingness to hammer on AC due to his previous run-ins with them is diminished

- I think 3 months of strike would probably put the company into an unrecoverable position due to having to shut down the operations completely again. If they didn’t pay other employees most of their salary during a strike period, they would lose most of their key people, but if they do pay them and keep the operation in a waiting state they will burn through about $500m in that time period and probably incur another $500m in losses getting their revenue back to a profitable position.

- Most of the company assets are in aircraft that are owned and brand name goodwill. Covid close to halved the value in the aircraft to keep the operation in stasis, a prolonged strike would probably reduce the goodwill close to zero and make the remaining operation unsellable.

- Current aircraft orders from all Canadian airlines are about equivalent to the full WS fleet size, so likely way above the natural growth capabilities in the market, so future competitive pressure is going to bankrupt some of the players, if it isn’t a couple of the smaller players, it will probably be WS

- I would expect in rounded numbers for pilot compensation increase ALPA is probably at 50% over 4 years and WS at 20%. I think anything over 35% will probably leave the company in an uncompetitive cost position. This is due to the fact that other employee groups (and the current shortage of labour) would be aiming for close to that (let’s say 30%), using the pilots as an example, if they don’t get close non-union people will leave and positions will be unfilled and union people will strike. This adds about 7% to the cost base, likely increasing ticket prices 10% above the competition when combined with the probable strengthened APPR legislation, until the competition have the same industry wide salary pressure. With the amount of money for travel spending closely linked to GDP, this will lead to an industry stagnation in terms of growth and contraction of those with the higher costs.

Overall Onex has some tough decisions to make, but I wouldn’t rule out either a structured wind-up of the operation or potential bankruptcy of WS if they can’t see a way to profitability in the medium and long term.

[RippleRock]

Beating the fear drum is ridiculous. Westjet is a well known and loved brand out West. It's not going anywhere. Proper pilot compensation is the new reality, and GS knows it. No operator in this country is going to avoid it. The groundswell south of the border will change our landscape.

Don't think for --one second-- that proper pilot compensation is going to move the financial needle on the operation one millimeter.

It's pretty "grandiose" to think that we have that much influence, or cost that much. WJ/AC pay is pathetic actually. You are a "costed operational part" vital to the operation of the Airline machine. This "money machine" stops when you aren't in your seat.

When the cost of a part goes up, the plane is grounded until its paid for. You don't hear Management gripping about having to pay an extra $1000 for a hydraulic fitting....they just do it. The only difference is, the hydraulic fitting doesn't fret and worry about being more expensive. There are NO MORE "parts" out there like you guys readily available to take over the seat. It's no more complicated than that.

Park the emotions or feelings of doom and get it done, just like we will on the other side of the fence. Big Red will be ALPA by the time you guys go out, and we won't do -one lick- of OT to compromise you. You'll only get support from us.

My bet is all Canadian ALPA pilots will walk the line with you in some form or another. ALPA shouldn't stand for anything less than 100 support for you guys or we all lose big time..