So much for growth

[Index]

So is this Globe and Mail story false? Like when they wrote an article saying that Sunwing was for sale, which was strongly denied by Sunwing, but later proved to be true?

777 Partners has orders for up to 134 B737's with more coming, including the 737-8-200. They sell most of them to a variety of leasing companies who then lease them to Flair, Bonza, and other airlines. 777 Partners has sold most of the aircraft it has received and this is not a new development, nor will it affect Flair's growth plans. To suggest otherwise shows a lack of understanding on how Flair is managing its fleet expansion.

The article, which was only partially quoted above, also states our 2023 fleet plans

"Discount carrier Flair Airlines has boosted its planned summer seat offerings and flights by more than 40 per cent over 2022. The Edmonton-based airline’s fleets consists of 19 Boeing 737s, capacity that falls short of the planned schedule, but will add leased planes in the months to come, said Stephen Jones, chief executive officer of Flair.

“Flair Airlines is regularly taking delivery of aircraft, and anticipate we’ll have 27 aircraft by the summer of 2023, at different bases across Canada,” he said.

Planespotters.net indicates you have 29 aircraft registered in your fleet, which also matches what is listed on the TC registry...

According to planespotters, 6 are currently parked.. all of these planes have been delivered in the last 6 months. Can you explain why they are all sitting? Only logical reason I can see at the moment is not enough crew

So to build on what SPR is asking, I am quoting my own question from December 31st, which tbaylx never bothered to answer

As of today, planespotters.net lists 22 aircraft as active with Flair, this is down 7 aircraft since my initial question on December 31st... the same with the TC registry, it shows 22 aircraft registered with Flair aswell

With that said, according to the TC registry, why has Flair lost 6 aircraft? I don't get it... their are claims three more aircraft are coming... there were already aircraft registered in the fleet a few months ago, some with Flair colours, why did those have to leave, and now they are being replaced by 3 different ones? It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and some people here, like myself and SPR, would like to understand the logic behind these moves

Take C-FLKS

This aircraft was delivered and registered to Flair in August 2022, and was immediatly stored in Marana, then Calgary, and then Tucson. It never flew once with Flair, it just stayed painted in storage for about 4 months, and then it had it's C of R cancelled Dec 2022 and the plane was returned to the lessor the next day, and is now currently still stored and has not been to delivered to a new airline yet.. so why is this, why was this plane delivered with Flair paint on it, to then sit for 4 months and then be returned to it's lessor, doesn't make much sense. This is all public information by the way

https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/ ... RchHs.aspx

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... ion/rz616l

[Sharklasers]

777 Partners has orders for up to 134 B737's with more coming, including the 737-8-200. They sell most of them to a variety of leasing companies who then lease them to Flair, Bonza, and other airlines. 777 Partners has sold most of the aircraft it has received and this is not a new development, nor will it affect Flair's growth plans. To suggest otherwise shows a lack of understanding on how Flair is managing its fleet expansion.

The article, which was only partially quoted above, also states our 2023 fleet plans

"Discount carrier Flair Airlines has boosted its planned summer seat offerings and flights by more than 40 per cent over 2022. The Edmonton-based airline’s fleets consists of 19 Boeing 737s, capacity that falls short of the planned schedule, but will add leased planes in the months to come, said Stephen Jones, chief executive officer of Flair.

“Flair Airlines is regularly taking delivery of aircraft, and anticipate we’ll have 27 aircraft by the summer of 2023, at different bases across Canada,” he said.

Planespotters.net indicates you have 29 aircraft registered in your fleet, which also matches what is listed on the TC registry...

According to planespotters, 6 are currently parked.. all of these planes have been delivered in the last 6 months. Can you explain why they are all sitting? Only logical reason I can see at the moment is not enough crew

So to build on what SPR is asking, I am quoting my own question from December 31st, which tbaylx never bothered to answer

As of today, planespotters.net lists 22 aircraft as active with Flair, this is down 7 aircraft since my initial question on December 31st... the TC registry now shows 23 aircraft registered with Flair, down 6 aircraft, so between the official TC registry website and planespotters.net, their is a discprency of one aircraft, which can be chalked up to where planespotters gets it's info from, and possibly not having made a recent update

With that said, according to the TC registry, why has Flair lost 6 aircraft? I don't get it... their are claims three more aircraft are coming... there were already 3 aircraft registered in the fleet a few months ago, with Flair colours, why did those have to leave, and now they are being replaced by 3 different ones? It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and some people here, like myself and SPR, would like to understand the logic behind these moves

Take C-FLKS

This aircraft was delivered and registered to Flair in August 2022, and was immediatly stored in Marana, then Calgary, and then Tucson. It never flew once with Flair, it just stayed painted in storage for about 4 months, and then it had it's C of R cancelled Dec 2022 and the plane was returned to the lessor the next day, and is now currently still stored and has not been to delivered to a new airline yet.. so why is this, why was this plane delivered with Flair paint on it, to then sit for 4 months and then be returned to it's lessor, doesn't make much sense. This is all public information by the way

https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/ ... RchHs.aspx

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... ion/rz616l

The TC registry shows 22 fins, the 23rd is an archer registered to “flair sport partners” or some such.

[Index]

Planespotters.net indicates you have 29 aircraft registered in your fleet, which also matches what is listed on the TC registry...

According to planespotters, 6 are currently parked.. all of these planes have been delivered in the last 6 months. Can you explain why they are all sitting? Only logical reason I can see at the moment is not enough crew

So to build on what SPR is asking, I am quoting my own question from December 31st, which tbaylx never bothered to answer

As of today, planespotters.net lists 22 aircraft as active with Flair, this is down 7 aircraft since my initial question on December 31st... the TC registry now shows 23 aircraft registered with Flair, down 6 aircraft, so between the official TC registry website and planespotters.net, their is a discprency of one aircraft, which can be chalked up to where planespotters gets it's info from, and possibly not having made a recent update

With that said, according to the TC registry, why has Flair lost 6 aircraft? I don't get it... their are claims three more aircraft are coming... there were already 3 aircraft registered in the fleet a few months ago, with Flair colours, why did those have to leave, and now they are being replaced by 3 different ones? It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and some people here, like myself and SPR, would like to understand the logic behind these moves

Take C-FLKS

This aircraft was delivered and registered to Flair in August 2022, and was immediatly stored in Marana, then Calgary, and then Tucson. It never flew once with Flair, it just stayed painted in storage for about 4 months, and then it had it's C of R cancelled Dec 2022 and the plane was returned to the lessor the next day, and is now currently still stored and has not been to delivered to a new airline yet.. so why is this, why was this plane delivered with Flair paint on it, to then sit for 4 months and then be returned to it's lessor, doesn't make much sense. This is all public information by the way

https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/ ... RchHs.aspx

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... ion/rz616l

The TC registry shows 22 fins, the 23rd is an archer registered to “flair sport partners” or some such.

Yes you're right, I just typed flair and didn't go to the 3rd page so I missed that one, i've corrected my initial post

[Sharklasers]

So to build on what SPR is asking, I am quoting my own question from December 31st, which tbaylx never bothered to answer

As of today, planespotters.net lists 22 aircraft as active with Flair, this is down 7 aircraft since my initial question on December 31st... the TC registry now shows 23 aircraft registered with Flair, down 6 aircraft, so between the official TC registry website and planespotters.net, their is a discprency of one aircraft, which can be chalked up to where planespotters gets it's info from, and possibly not having made a recent update

With that said, according to the TC registry, why has Flair lost 6 aircraft? I don't get it... their are claims three more aircraft are coming... there were already 3 aircraft registered in the fleet a few months ago, with Flair colours, why did those have to leave, and now they are being replaced by 3 different ones? It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and some people here, like myself and SPR, would like to understand the logic behind these moves

Take C-FLKS

This aircraft was delivered and registered to Flair in August 2022, and was immediatly stored in Marana, then Calgary, and then Tucson. It never flew once with Flair, it just stayed painted in storage for about 4 months, and then it had it's C of R cancelled Dec 2022 and the plane was returned to the lessor the next day, and is now currently still stored and has not been to delivered to a new airline yet.. so why is this, why was this plane delivered with Flair paint on it, to then sit for 4 months and then be returned to it's lessor, doesn't make much sense. This is all public information by the way

https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/ ... RchHs.aspx

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... ion/rz616l

The TC registry shows 22 fins, the 23rd is an archer registered to “flair sport partners” or some such.

Yes you're right, I just typed flair and didn't go to the 3rd page so I missed that one, i've corrected my initial post

CFLQO and CFLRS haven’t moved in a month either I think one was the excursion. CFFEL hasn’t flown in a week.

[braaap Braap]

I call BS...unless this guy who claims to be in the know about "the leasing community" has truthful information he can post here, it's just one person making shyte up. He has some weird interest in seeing Flair fail and posts nothing but unsubstantiated rumours with some sort of wish to see the airline fail. I shudder to use the term, but it's "Fake News" unless he cares to show facts. It smells to high hell of a senior WS manager posting false information to keep Flair from "Eating Westjet's Breakfast."

I read the same thing on AvLease.com /s (complete sarcasm)

[flyinhigh]

I asked whether they were paying their lessors. I gave a specific tail number C-FLKJ. All you need to do, is confirm for the rest of us that Flair is not in default. You will make me a liar and you will be proved right. One phone call to the finance team and you can give everyone comfort.

Just because someone is living in a house doesn’t mean they’re paying rent. Just like it’s hard to evict deadbeat tenants, it takes time to repossess aircraft. Flair owes us honesty and transparency. People are making decisions about their careers, you should help them.

What kind of answer on an anonymous board for pilots to bitch would you expect. The question is obviously NOT going to be answered from any manager from any company.

Hell, Jetsgo said it was doing great when they took the new hire cheques and closed the doors, what 3 days later.

[rudder]

Hell, Jetsgo said it was doing great when they took the new hire cheques and closed the doors, what 3 days later.

Same for SKV. RG and RP knew months in advance that it was over. But it isn’t like they advertised it.

I am not drawing a parallel to Flair. Both are private companies and technically have no obligation to publicly disclose any details of their financial, commercial, or operational state which does not mean similar outcomes.

[Arnie Pye]

I didn't check every single registration, however, I don't think that any of these were actually in our operational fleet if that means anything.

That is to say that while they are parked and put into Flair's control for a while, they never did go to a base and perform any revenue flights for the company. We have not heard anything about delays to the expansion plan lately. I don't know where the new machines are going but YYC gets a new base and a bunch of planes come April/May. I asked one of the YYC captains about this and he tells me that they haven't heard anything indicating that there are any problems with deliveries or tails allocated to the company.

As others have pointed out, pilots are the last to know and often only find out when their mortgage payment bounces the day after payroll was due.

[SPR]

You posted a screenshot claiming it was proof of Flair defaulting on its debts. While it is proof of said and other aircraft leaving the fleet, it doesn't even come close to being proof of Flair defaulting.

You demand Flair provides answers to their financial status, yet you see no need in providing evidence to your claim? You don't see a problem with any of this? If you're so concerned with pilots having current and factual information to make an informed career decision. Why don't you help them out and provide proof of Flair going bankrupt?

No, I didn't say anything about defaulting on debts. That was ThinMargins. You're complaining about factual information, but you can't get your facts straight. All I said was that eight aircraft were registered to Flair, painted in their livery, and configured with their seating arrangement, and then exported without earning any revenue; I was questioning the growth and "F50" plans. I never said anything about debt.

[SPR]

SPR,

What part of any of the reasons already given to you don't you understand? There has been no fleet reduction and Flair continues to acquire tails as advertised. Indeed, as already explained by tbaylx, three more tails are "on the property", and Flair continues to hire for the next year. Just because the world continues to trade/buy/sell aircraft for a tasty profit, does not mean Flair is losing tails. Registries change as owners move/buy/sell assets yet Flair still has the same number of tails on the property. If Flair has lost the numbers you claim they have, a rather large number of employees would have been furloughed, which isn't the case at all. You claim 8 have "left the fleet." The math on cew reductions only would be an over-staff of over 100 pilots if your speculations were actually true. Still hiring and growing as you might see from their website.

I asked you a question previously that you still haven't, or won't, answer. Why do you even care? What's your angle here?

You seem to take a dark delight in trying to put Flair in a bad light which, gathering by the latest responses here, is not having the effect you'd like.

Which is why your posts are looking suspiciously like you are shilling for the competition.

I care because Flair is constantly head-hunting pilots, making big promises to attract people, and might be setting them up for failure. The chief pilot even comments in threads about other companies to try to convince posters to apply at Flair instead because of big amazing growth plans, upgrades in six months, any base anyone could ever want, a new base in Montreal that would be opening sometime in 2021 or 2022, and for two years we were told about a contract that was promised to be ready in two weeks. If everything is constantly sunshine and roses, and management is promising the moon and the stars, those are big red flags that they're having trouble attracting and retaining people, so a major warning like aircraft being exported when there are supposedly incredible growth plans is serious indication that something could be wrong.

But maybe not. Maybe everything is great, and this is just a financial system by lessors to try to maximize profits. It doesn't seem like that to me, it seems like a shell game with tails being shuffled around after huge expenditures on paint and configuration, but maybe it's not. If it's not, that's egg on my face. But if it is, and management is making promises that they can't keep regarding upgrade times and base openings, then pilots are going to get burned. Pilots are leaving good jobs to go to Flair in the expectation that they'll be upgraded in six months at their desired base, so if the growth isn't happening and those upgrades aren't happening then a lot of people are going to be hurt. If it's a game of musical chairs, pilots are going to be burned if the music has already stopped. Worse still, if the company is in financial trouble, everyone who works there is going to be burned. Trying to entice people to give up on other jobs to go work there when there are problems would be massively unethical.

The company has been chronically understaffed for the last year at least, as demonstrated by attempts at recruiting South African pilots (which I don't like about Flair, just like I can't stand Sunwing for trying to import TFWs), so losing those tails might have just brought the fleet down to a level that it can actually crew. As you'll note I stated above, they never actually flew for Flair, so there wouldn't have been any need for layoffs, because there wasn't a reduction in flying. Perhaps the growth plans were too ambitious, and there isn't enough flying for thirty aircraft, or even twenty-five aircraft, in the near future. Perhaps the staffing situation is too critical to allow for thirty aircraft, or even twenty-five. In any case, if those eight tails were never meant to operate for Flair, then there hasn't been any fleet growth in the last six months; if Flair is still hiring constantly then the recruitment isn't due to growth, it's due to attrition. If there's no growth, there's no movement, there are no upgrades, and there may not be openings at the bases where new hires want to live. There are a lot of big promises being made, and I don't think Flair can live up to them, so I'll be watching very keenly to see if those three tails actually get added in the spring.

[SPR]

That is to say that while they are parked and put into Flair's control for a while, they never did go to a base and perform any revenue flights for the company.

Why would Flair accept control of aircraft that it was never meant to operate? Was Flair forced to accept control of the aircraft by the lessors, and if so what does that imply about whether Flair is controlled-in-fact by foreign entities? Why would they go through the effort and expense of registering those aircraft? Why were they painted in Flair's livery and configured with their seating arrangement?

[MKFlair]

Look at the history of posts on this topic. Boeing accelerated delivery to 777 and Flair did not need or want those aircraft in Oct 2022 as opposed to late spring 2023. It was a timing issue. So no 777 control issues as, if they had control, they would have forced Flair to take those aircraft. Instead Flair refused as it did not work our program.

[SPR]

Flair reminds me of a pyramid scheme that needs a constant supply of new people joining in order to prop up the ones who are already there, and tbaylx is constantly hassling everyone to join his downline. All the FOs who want upgrades need new hires to replace them, and everyone who wants to get off reserve needs new hires under them. Just like an MLM, everyone promises that everything will be great for everyone involved, and everyone will get rich together, but just like an MLM the first ones in will get all the benefits, and the ones who join just before everything grinds to a halt will lose majorly.

[SPR]

Look at the history of posts on this topic. Boeing accelerated delivery to 777 and Flair did not need or want those aircraft in Oct 2022 as opposed to late spring 2023. It was a timing issue. So no 777 control issues as, if they had control, they would have forced Flair to take those aircraft. Instead Flair refused as it did not work our program.

And yet Flair had to register them. How is that not indicative of 777 having undue influence over Flair? I'm pretty sure WestJet has never been forced to register any ALC aircraft that it wasn't ever going to operate.

[tbaylx]

Flair reminds me of a pyramid scheme that needs a constant supply of new people joining in order to prop up the ones who are already there, and tbaylx is constantly hassling everyone to join his downline. All the FOs who want upgrades need new hires to replace them, and everyone who wants to get off reserve needs new hires under them. Just like an MLM, everyone promises that everything will be great for everyone involved, and everyone will get rich together, but just like an MLM the first ones in will get all the benefits, and the ones who join just before everything grinds to a halt will lose majorly.

That's how a rapidly expanding airline works. We take new airplanes, upgrade FO's to captains, hire new FO"s to replace the one we upgraded. Those that get in first get seniority, base of choice and rapid upgrades.

Those that wait get less seniority, the bases where there are openings and longer waits to upgrade.

It doesn't seem very complicated. Air Canada is currently doing the same thing. If you're at the tail end of the hiring boom you're stuck on the bottom of a long list on reserve, and first to get laid off. Always pays to be in early.

[co-joe]

You guys have to stop feeding the WestJet trolls. Thinmargins joined a week ago, and all of his posts are in this one thread just hoping to stir up whatever agenda he feels like stroking his ego with. Planes come and go, our fleet is expanding, our loads are good, our sales are solid, in fact, since his airline took the first step towards a strike, I'd say our loads have improved.

[Index]

You guys have to stop feeding the WestJet trolls. Thinmargins joined a week ago, and all of his posts are in this one thread just hoping to stir up whatever agenda he feels like stroking his ego with. Planes come and go, our fleet is expanding, our loads are good, our sales are solid, in fact, since his airline took the first step towards a strike, I'd say our loads have improved.

What do you mean planes come and go? What? Receiving and then getting rid of 6 aircraft in a period of 6 months does not make any sense, especially considering some of those aircraft were already painted in Flair's colours, and considering there are these claimed expansion plans.

None of it makes sense, and some of us are trying to make sense of it, but yet we keep getting dodgy answers. Like SPR said, some would like some clarity as it could make a huge difference in the decisions they make going forward with their career and more importantly, their life.

For what it's worth, what some of you claim are "trolls", by deflecting or simply not answering their questions, you're just feeding them more fuel for their fire at that point

I wish Flair all the success in the world, it helps everyone, as we all know competition is good and in theory should raise the bar across the industry, so best of luck to you all

[Arnie Pye]

That is to say that while they are parked and put into Flair's control for a while, they never did go to a base and perform any revenue flights for the company.

Why would Flair accept control of aircraft that it was never meant to operate? Was Flair forced to accept control of the aircraft by the lessors, and if so what does that imply about whether Flair is controlled-in-fact by foreign entities? Why would they go through the effort and expense of registering those aircraft? Why were they painted in Flair's livery and configured with their seating arrangement?

That's above my pay grade. I'll have to accept tbaylx's answer.

We have aircraft in our operational fleet because other airlines couldn't accept them on the timeline that Boeing dictated. Doesn't seem like a big conspiracy theory that we might also have a couple of spares out there seeking a new home. Who's to say that Flair didn't make money off of being a temporary holding company for 6 airplanes?

[ThinMargins]

I still don't' see any proof of defaults or anything that (even remotely) proves anything really.

I posted a screenshot from the Civil Aircraft Register showing eight aircraft have left the fleet in the last two months. Is that not proof of "anything"? Are you saying you don't believe that the screen shot is real? Because you can go verify yourself. Or are you implying that the Register can't be trusted and is, as you put it earlier, "fake news"? What part of eight aircraft being exported isn't true?

You posted a screenshot claiming it was proof of Flair defaulting on its debts. While it is proof of said and other aircraft leaving the fleet, it doesn't even come close to being proof of Flair defaulting.

You demand Flair provides answers to their financial status, yet you see no need in providing evidence to your claim? You don't see a problem with any of this? If you're so concerned with pilots having current and factual information to make an informed career decision. Why don't you help them out and provide proof of Flair going bankrupt?

You are correct in saying that I didn’t share “proof”, but it is also correct that I never claimed I was sharing proof.

I am relaying what I am hearing from the leasing community. I went as far as giving a particular registration number and a lessor. If I am wrong, one of management’s reps here can easily refute it. But they won’t, because they can’t and because it’s true. It’s one phone call to finance.

People are being lied to. The point is to give early warning. By the time paperwork showing default becomes available, this debate will be moot. The alarm is sounded when the Titanic hits the iceberg, by the time the proof of sinking comes you’re already 50 feet below water.

[ThinMargins]

So is this Globe and Mail story false? Like when they wrote an article saying that Sunwing was for sale, which was strongly denied by Sunwing, but later proved to be true?

777 Partners has orders for up to 134 B737's with more coming, including the 737-8-200. They sell most of them to a variety of leasing companies who then lease them to Flair, Bonza, and other airlines. 777 Partners has sold most of the aircraft it has received and this is not a new development, nor will it affect Flair's growth plans. To suggest otherwise shows a lack of understanding on how Flair is managing its fleet expansion.

The article, which was only partially quoted by the OP, also states our 2023 fleet plans. The article is factual, however, the OP only partially quoted it and purposefully posted an alarmist topic in order to provide a half-story that was driven by his agenda.

"Discount carrier Flair Airlines has boosted its planned summer seat offerings and flights by more than 40 per cent over 2022. The Edmonton-based airline’s fleets consists of 19 Boeing 737s, capacity that falls short of the planned schedule, but will add leased planes in the months to come, said Stephen Jones, chief executive officer of Flair.

“Flair Airlines is regularly taking delivery of aircraft, and anticipate we’ll have 27 aircraft by the summer of 2023, at different bases across Canada,” he said.

This one is easily falsifiable.

This is from Boeing’s website. They show remaining aircraft by customer. They update it every month. I have filtered for Canada, you can see how many orders are left to be delivered for each carrier - nowhere close to 134. And this has to be split between Bonza and other adventures. And they are selling aircraft to other airlines too.

https://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries

1727BE30-CE17-4E18-A2FD-91EBA215B31D.jpeg (499.58 KiB) Viewed 3923 times

tbyalx, I think you got the 134 number from here. https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2022-07-19 ... cient-Jets

The press release shows that 777 placed an order in 2022. But get this - the order doesn’t show up on Boeing’s website showing 2022 orders! Every other airline that has ordered shows up. Except 777. Why would Boeing cancel their order?

354D18FE-8425-45D5-91F9-EB1D650224D9.jpeg (1.03 MiB) Viewed 3923 times

Pilots are highly educated and sophisticated individuals. Hard to fool them. Anyone can click on the links above and validate for themselves.

[accountant]

Pilots are highly educated and sophisticated individuals. Hard to fool them. Anyone can click on the links above and validate for themselves.

Given how much grumbling you're all making over how pilots wages suck and you all have crappy contracts one could argue that you're not that educated and sophisticated.

[co-joe]

...

What do you mean planes come and go? What? Receiving and then getting rid of 6 aircraft in a period of 6 months does not make any sense, especially considering some of those aircraft were already painted in Flair's colours, and considering there are these claimed expansion plans.

It means exactly as it sounds, planes come and go to the fleet. They are leased assets, the owners of those assets move them wherever they want to and the lessors have no control over that, nor should they. 777 can paint planes whatever colour they want, they can fill runway 26 with type 4 green tails, it makes no difference to me, if they find a home for those planes before we do, cool, if we have the crews to put them on line...cool too.

None of it makes sense, and some of us are trying to make sense of it, but yet we keep getting dodgy answers. Like SPR said, some would like some clarity as it could make a huge difference in the decisions they make going forward with their career and more importantly, their life.

For what it's worth, what some of you claim are "trolls", by deflecting or simply not answering their questions, you're just feeding them more fuel for their fire at that point

I wish Flair all the success in the world, it helps everyone, as we all know competition is good and in theory should raise the bar across the industry, so best of luck to you all

In slang, a troll is a person who posts or makes inflammatory, insincere, digressive,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages online (such as in social media, a newsgroup, a forum, a chat room, an online video game), or in real life, with the intent of provoking others into displaying emotional responses,[2] or manipulating others' perception. The behavior is typically for the troll's amusement, or to achieve a specific result such as disrupting a rival's online activities or purposefully causing confusion or harm to other people.[3]

Thinmargins joined Avcanada 4 days ago with the sole purpose of posting inflammatory lines of questioning just to get a rise out of us. It's a pretty classic trolling. Trolls only win when you feed them, there's nothing to see here.

[Index]

...

What do you mean planes come and go? What? Receiving and then getting rid of 6 aircraft in a period of 6 months does not make any sense, especially considering some of those aircraft were already painted in Flair's colours, and considering there are these claimed expansion plans.

It means exactly as it sounds, planes come and go to the fleet. They are leased assets, the owners of those assets move them wherever they want to and the lessors have no control over that, nor should they. 777 can paint planes whatever colour they want, they can fill runway 26 with type 4 green tails, it makes no difference to me, if they find a home for those planes before we do, cool, if we have the crews to put them on line...cool too.

None of it makes sense, and some of us are trying to make sense of it, but yet we keep getting dodgy answers. Like SPR said, some would like some clarity as it could make a huge difference in the decisions they make going forward with their career and more importantly, their life.

For what it's worth, what some of you claim are "trolls", by deflecting or simply not answering their questions, you're just feeding them more fuel for their fire at that point

I wish Flair all the success in the world, it helps everyone, as we all know competition is good and in theory should raise the bar across the industry, so best of luck to you all

In slang, a troll is a person who posts or makes inflammatory, insincere, digressive,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages online (such as in social media, a newsgroup, a forum, a chat room, an online video game), or in real life, with the intent of provoking others into displaying emotional responses,[2] or manipulating others' perception. The behavior is typically for the troll's amusement, or to achieve a specific result such as disrupting a rival's online activities or purposefully causing confusion or harm to other people.[3]

Thinmargins joined Avcanada 4 days ago with the sole purpose of posting inflammatory lines of questioning just to get a rise out of us. It's a pretty classic trolling. Trolls only win when you feed them, there's nothing to see here.

Still seems a bit strange but I suppose what you and Arnie Pye said makes sense

While I don't agree with everything, especially the new contract as it could've been better, especially for FOs, at least it's trending in the right direction, so like I said, best of luck to you lot, i'm rooting for Flair's success

[ThinMargins]

...

What do you mean planes come and go? What? Receiving and then getting rid of 6 aircraft in a period of 6 months does not make any sense, especially considering some of those aircraft were already painted in Flair's colours, and considering there are these claimed expansion plans.

It means exactly as it sounds, planes come and go to the fleet. They are leased assets, the owners of those assets move them wherever they want to and the lessors have no control over that, nor should they. 777 can paint planes whatever colour they want, they can fill runway 26 with type 4 green tails, it makes no difference to me, if they find a home for those planes before we do, cool, if we have the crews to put them on line...cool too.

None of it makes sense, and some of us are trying to make sense of it, but yet we keep getting dodgy answers. Like SPR said, some would like some clarity as it could make a huge difference in the decisions they make going forward with their career and more importantly, their life.

For what it's worth, what some of you claim are "trolls", by deflecting or simply not answering their questions, you're just feeding them more fuel for their fire at that point

I wish Flair all the success in the world, it helps everyone, as we all know competition is good and in theory should raise the bar across the industry, so best of luck to you all

In slang, a troll is a person who posts or makes inflammatory, insincere, digressive,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages online (such as in social media, a newsgroup, a forum, a chat room, an online video game), or in real life, with the intent of provoking others into displaying emotional responses,[2] or manipulating others' perception. The behavior is typically for the troll's amusement, or to achieve a specific result such as disrupting a rival's online activities or purposefully causing confusion or harm to other people.[3]

Thinmargins joined Avcanada 4 days ago with the sole purpose of posting inflammatory lines of questioning just to get a rise out of us. It's a pretty classic trolling. Trolls only win when you feed them, there's nothing to see here.

Still seems a bit strange but I suppose what you and Arnie Pye said makes sense

While I don't agree with everything, especially the new contract as it could've been better, especially for FOs, at least it's trending in the right direction, so like I said, best of luck to you lot, i'm rooting for Flair's success

Your instinct is right. You are more right than you think, because it’s more than a bit strange that 777’s 2022 order is no longer listed in the orders section of Boeing’s website. Every other order is listed. Every. Single. One.

The next thing they will say is that the Trolls hacked Boeing’s website. These people are preying on the credulity of hardworking pilots. They think pilots are gullible.

[TC.Enforcement]

It means exactly as it sounds, planes come and go to the fleet. They are leased assets, the owners of those assets move them wherever they want to and the lessors have no control over that, nor should they. 777 can paint planes whatever colour they want, they can fill runway 26 with type 4 green tails, it makes no difference to me, if they find a home for those planes before we do, cool, if we have the crews to put them on line...cool too.





Thinmargins joined Avcanada 4 days ago with the sole purpose of posting inflammatory lines of questioning just to get a rise out of us. It's a pretty classic trolling. Trolls only win when you feed them, there's nothing to see here.

Still seems a bit strange but I suppose what you and Arnie Pye said makes sense

While I don't agree with everything, especially the new contract as it could've been better, especially for FOs, at least it's trending in the right direction, so like I said, best of luck to you lot, i'm rooting for Flair's success

Your instinct is right. You are more right than you think, because it’s more than a bit strange that 777’s 2022 order is no longer listed in the orders section of Boeing’s website. Every other order is listed. Every. Single. One.

The next thing they will say is that the Trolls hacked Boeing’s website. These people are preying on the credulity of hardworking pilots. They think pilots are gullible.

Who’s they? Give specific names otherwise you sound like a conspiracy nut.