Are Air Canada pilots the lowest paid in the world?

[RRJetPilot]

But now the CEO is an accountant. Nothing good will come of this. Will need to stand our ground. It will be a long difficult road ahead.

[Crewbunk]

But now the CEO is an accountant. Nothing good will come of this. Will need to stand our ground. It will be a long difficult road ahead.

The current CEO is “manned” by one from the LRD, as required by the constitution. The new CEO will be announced in about a month. If it’s who is rumoured, only good will come if it.

[BTD]

Could be wrong but I think the reference is to the corporate CEO not the union.

[Crewbunk]

Could be wrong but I think the reference is to the corporate CEO not the union.

Ah. That makes more sense. Nothing wrong with an accountant running the airline, IMO. But, don’t forget M. Rovenescu’s background was finance too.

[rudder]

Could be wrong but I think the reference is to the corporate CEO not the union.

Ah. That makes more sense. Nothing wrong with an accountant running the airline, IMO. But, don’t forget M. Rovenescu’s background was finance too.

CR’s background was law. Specifically M&A. I would guess that beyond the basic understanding of airline financials, he left the high level stuff to the VP Finance (who is now the CEO).

CR’s strengths were situational awareness, leverage, contingency planning, and most of all - understanding how to steer others to where he wanted to go using whatever means necessary.

[Crewbunk]

Again, I don’t see a financial background as a bad thing. If anything, an “accountant” can see (unemotionally) how a very small percent of the total operating costs can be attributed to pilot’s wages. And, (unemotionally) an accountant can see how pilots can singularly affect the bottom line.

I have never looked into M. Rovenescu’s background. My first recollection of him was quite a while ago, when he was working under Robert Milton. (Before he left the first time). His messages to the pilots always seemed to be financial in nature. Specifically dealing with Jazz.

[Transition9er2]

But now the CEO is an accountant. Nothing good will come of this. Will need to stand our ground. It will be a long difficult road ahead.

The current CEO is “manned” by one from the LRD, as required by the constitution. The new CEO will be announced in about a month. If it’s who is rumoured, only good will come if it.

I’m guessing you’re referring to the ACPA CEO… who’s rumoured to be announced in a month? Please tell me it’s NOT the acting CEO.

[noreasterYHZ]

But now the CEO is an accountant. Nothing good will come of this. Will need to stand our ground. It will be a long difficult road ahead.

The current CEO is “manned” by one from the LRD, as required by the constitution. The new CEO will be announced in about a month. If it’s who is rumoured, only good will come if it.

I’m guessing you’re referring to the ACPA CEO… who’s rumoured to be announced in a month? Please tell me it’s NOT the acting CEO.

AC pilots should be under the ALPA banner thankfully by this summer

Under ALPA there won't be a CEO so...

[TWAlum]

I think being under ALPA, and not having a CEO would be a good thing…

[newcomer]

Voted! Delta pilots get a 34% raise

[lee123]

Delta has a few new hire 20 something year old 67 captains that make more per hour than the #1 pilot at AC (440 CAD after this contract signing). Just let that sink in...

[Crewbunk]

Delta has a few new hire 20 something year old 67 captains that make more per hour than the #1 pilot at AC (440 CAD after this contract signing). Just let that sink in...

This doesn’t have to “sink in”. The US/Canada disparity of wages is something of which most Air Canada pilots have been aware for a long time.

The real issue, is how did we get there? And …. why do these contacts continue to be ratified? And another point, why does Air Canada have absolutely no difficulty in filling new hire classes to the tune of two classes a month?

It seems, everyone needs to be educated. Not just the pilots themselves, but ACPA (who for 20 years have promoted these wages) as well. Air Canada is aware and I am sure they are clapping their hands together with glee.

[lee123]

Delta has a few new hire 20 something year old 67 captains that make more per hour than the #1 pilot at AC (440 CAD after this contract signing). Just let that sink in...

This doesn’t have to “sink in”. The US/Canada disparity of wages is something of which most Air Canada pilots have been aware for a long time.

The real issue, is how did we get there? And …. why do these contacts continue to be ratified? And another point, why does Air Canada have absolutely no difficulty in filling new hire classes to the tune of two classes a month?

It seems, everyone needs to be educated. Not just the pilots themselves, but ACPA (who for 20 years have promoted these wages) as well. Air Canada is aware and I am sure they are clapping their hands together with glee.

That's the thing. Is everyone educated? I find that a lot of the senior guys we fly with have no idea or clue of what is going on in our industry. Just look at the ones that know nothing about YOS for furloughs.

[Crewbunk]

That's the thing. Is everyone educated? I find that a lot of the senior guys we fly with have no idea or clue of what is going on in our industry. Just look at the ones that know nothing about YOS for furloughs.

That’s funny, being a senior guy, I was going to say the opposite. It’s the bottom of the list that need educating. But, I don’t say that in a way to be insulting. Over the last five years, or so, I have encountered a few sentiments from the younger pilots.

One, being “I pay ACPA $1500 a year to represent me, I don’t have the time to look at all the issues, if they say to vote yes, I will”.

Another is, “I’m new here, still on probation, I don’t want to rock the boat by voting no”.

Or one that drives me nuts, “Air Canada says we’ll shut down if we vote no, they wouldn’t lie would they?”

While I patiently try to tell them of union issues over the last 35 years, I have to be careful. To dwell on it borders on workplace harassment. So I just shrug and talk about girls and trucks.

You mention YOS for furloughs. Let me tell you about the past. Air Canada, Canadian, Wardair, Nordair, CPAir, PWA and Transair all furloughed pilots. Some are still at AC. None received recognition for furlough time. (Other than the offer of buying back pension time, now irrelevant).

I’m not saying it shouldn’t be done for the 600 Covid furloughs, it just never has. Perhaps the younger crowd was not aware.

[Fanblade]

That's the thing. Is everyone educated? I find that a lot of the senior guys we fly with have no idea or clue of what is going on in our industry. Just look at the ones that know nothing about YOS for furloughs.

That’s funny, being a senior guy, I was going to say the opposite. It’s the bottom of the list that need educating. But, I don’t say that in a way to be insulting. Over the last five years, or so, I have encountered a few sentiments from the younger pilots.

One, being “I pay ACPA $1500 a year to represent me, I don’t have the time to look at all the issues, if they say to vote yes, I will”.

Another is, “I’m new here, still on probation, I don’t want to rock the boat by voting no”.

Or one that drives me nuts, “Air Canada says we’ll shut down if we vote no, they wouldn’t lie would they?”

While I patiently try to tell them of union issues over the last 35 years, I have to be careful. To dwell on it borders on workplace harassment. So I just shrug and talk about girls and trucks.

You mention YOS for furloughs. Let me tell you about the past. Air Canada, Canadian, Wardair, Nordair, CPAir, PWA and Transair all furloughed pilots. Some are still at AC. None received recognition for furlough time. (Other than the offer of buying back pension time, now irrelevant).

I’m not saying it shouldn’t be done for the 600 Covid furloughs, it just never has. Perhaps the younger crowd was not aware.

I think there is a big difference between these furloughs and past ones. That being CEWS. There was no need to throw everyone onto EI with less benefit and a shorter time frame. Our CEO did it to get Trudeau’s attention and if failed miserably. Every other airline, including the regional AC partially owns, received CEWS and with it YOS. We are the outlier in this issue. Our most vulnerable members are the outlier. Our furloughed members are at a disadvantage , not just in pay, but in any future merger as well.

[Transition9er2]

Delta has a few new hire 20 something year old 67 captains that make more per hour than the #1 pilot at AC (440 CAD after this contract signing). Just let that sink in...

This doesn’t have to “sink in”. The US/Canada disparity of wages is something of which most Air Canada pilots have been aware for a long time.

The real issue, is how did we get there? And …. why do these contacts continue to be ratified? And another point, why does Air Canada have absolutely no difficulty in filling new hire classes to the tune of two classes a month?

It seems, everyone needs to be educated. Not just the pilots themselves, but ACPA (who for 20 years have promoted these wages) as well. Air Canada is aware and I am sure they are clapping their hands together with glee.

AC is filling classes because the majority of new hires are expecting an industry leading contract in the very near future.

If the contract turns out to be a disappointment, I’ll certainly be looking at other options in my area that provide me better WAWCON for me personally.

I am NOT married to AC by any means. This is a wait and see scenario for me.

[RippleRock]

It's pretty myopic to think that we live in a bubble, not affected by the goings on of other employee groups.

Like it or not, pilots were furloughed because they let HALF the Flight Attendants go. HALF.

There is --NO WAY-- pilots were going to avoid furloughs with that many FA's on the street. They are a more powerful union than we are, and "me too" is ingrained in their thought process. They firmly believe that because they work on the same plane, they are of equal value.

It's super naive to think that we weren't furloughing anyone, regardless of whether it left us short or not. They knew full well that pilots would be crawling over one another for that premium VO. ACPA facilitated this by allowing the Corp to lower the 100% premium trigger, making it even more irresistible.

Great work ACPA for undermining those on furlough, not to mention the vacation buybacks they --allowed-- that were forbidden with any pilot on the street. This was all MM's doing.

[Ash Ketchum]

Delta has a few new hire 20 something year old 67 captains that make more per hour than the #1 pilot at AC (440 CAD after this contract signing). Just let that sink in...

This doesn’t have to “sink in”. The US/Canada disparity of wages is something of which most Air Canada pilots have been aware for a long time.

The real issue, is how did we get there? And …. why do these contacts continue to be ratified? And another point, why does Air Canada have absolutely no difficulty in filling new hire classes to the tune of two classes a month?

It seems, everyone needs to be educated. Not just the pilots themselves, but ACPA (who for 20 years have promoted these wages) as well. Air Canada is aware and I am sure they are clapping their hands together with glee.

AC is filling classes because the majority of new hires are expecting an industry leading contract in the very near future.

If the contract turns out to be a disappointment, I’ll certainly be looking at other options in my area that provide me better WAWCON for me personally.

I am NOT married to AC by any means. This is a wait and see scenario for me.

I think that aside from a potential industry leading contract AC is also filling classes because of the potential of a quick upgrade off of flat pay. This is risky though because it certainly isn't guaranteed.

[Inverted2]

Don’t forget a quick upgrade means years of reserve and a miserable schedule, especially if you are a commuter. I know many who could hold left seat at AC but aren’t because they choose lifestyle over pay. Reserve sucks. I did many years of it and it still haunts me.

[DanWEC]

Many people in the same boat... Getting on now because of speculation. But plenty waiting for it to be in black and white before applying . I'm certainly not taking the increase in hours plus years of pay cut to move over unless it's a pay raise... That's the way moving jobs it's supposed to work!

One thing is for sure though, if they ditch flat pay like they're supposed to, and bump 35% across the board to approach being in line with recent contracts on a global scale, everyone will be lining up. Every airline will have to follow suit in order to even attempt to keep their crews.

[Crewbunk]

Things happen slowly at the mighty Air Canada. (You learn patience).

But don’t forget, every year you wait “to see what happens” is another 500 or so names down the list you’ll find yourself. That makes a huge difference.

[twa22]

I said this in another thread and it doesn't get mentioned as often as others, but reality is, Air Canada is likely the only airline in this country which will likely never cease to exist, as history has showcased... I would suspect that other then speculation of the (hopefully) new pay raise coming towards the end of the year, a lot of people take this factor into consideration for going to AC, regardless of the prospect of future furloughs or not, as that can happen at any airline anywhere in the world

[canadian_aviator_4]

To answer your question, Air Canada…..express pilots are. When your take home pay is minimum wage there is an issue. Just put it in the perspective of if you were a pilot in Mexico making 230 usd per month (minimum wage in Mexico). Pretty crazy! However pilots in Mexican I can imagine make more with starting pay than the majority of professions.

[FNGYYZ]

The contract has next to hardly any furlough mitigation built into it and no protections for DBMs & recalls

There was a vacation buyback protection but Acpa & the CEO at the time just allowed the violation to happen

Then throw in the scam of the recall process that subverted seniority and you got a total clown show

Not to mention somehow I wasn't able to get any wage subsidy while furloughed unlike every single airline pilot in North America

Just a brutal place

[flyingcanuck]

The contract has next to hardly any furlough mitigation built into it and no protections for DBMs & recalls

There was a vacation buyback protection but Acpa & the CEO at the time just allowed the violation to happen

Then throw in the scam of the recall process that subverted seniority and you got a total clown show

Not to mention somehow I wasn't able to get any wage subsidy while furloughed unlike every single airline pilot in North America

Just a brutal place

the contract needs to be burned and started from scratch