kiaszceski wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:15 am
Westjet pilots will fold like every other time, they'll go to arbitration and lose what they've achieved.
Canadian pilots are scared, we are not the Americans, we are just nice Canadians.
There'll be no strike, and the company is piling up money for the lockout.
How long they'll be on lockout depends on when the union agrees on the company's terms.
This will be the new normalcy and pilots will continue whining.
Canadian pilots don't have the guts to stand firm for themselves.
Oh sh#t the f#ck up.
Why should I, Does reality make you worried?
The union is telling pilots "Be ready". They've been saying it for at least a year. How many of us are ready? How many put at least 3-4 or even 6 months of savings aside to be locked out or on strike?
I'd say less than 20%. The senior guys don't give a sh#t. the junior ones are leaving for AC.
The company is always 2 steps ahead.
You ain't gonna change the results of the job action unless 80% of pilots will stay home. Pilots aren't desperate enough to fight for their jobs, lives, and families.
Hmm.. are you SW? JA? DP? AVH?
Oh wait, hey guys Clive is trying to enter the chat!
Welcome to Avcanada, Clive! Thanks for building an airline. Now piss off.
kiaszceski wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:15 am
Westjet pilots will fold like every other time, they'll go to arbitration and lose what they've achieved.
Canadian pilots are scared, we are not the Americans, we are just nice Canadians.
There'll be no strike, and the company is piling up money for the lockout.
How long they'll be on lockout depends on when the union agrees on the company's terms.
This will be the new normalcy and pilots will continue whining.
Canadian pilots don't have the guts to stand firm for themselves.
I'm sorry that you've experienced such shit that you have a hard time allowing others to be optimistic.
May your flowers bloom and whiskey glass be ever-full.
kiaszceski wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:15 am
Westjet pilots will fold like every other time, they'll go to arbitration and lose what they've achieved.
Canadian pilots are scared, we are not the Americans, we are just nice Canadians.
There'll be no strike, and the company is piling up money for the lockout.
How long they'll be on lockout depends on when the union agrees on the company's terms.
This will be the new normalcy and pilots will continue whining.
Canadian pilots don't have the guts to stand firm for themselves.
Why view everything as a binary problem. Either deal, or strike. Look at the American carriers we hope to replicate and see they will go years beyond with no deal to get a good one. In the meantime at the end of conciliation we can spray everyday, taxi with the APU running, stop all overtime, cause flights to misconect.... It could be a single day strike on an important day. You can picket when and where needed. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Brakes, or gas. Be ready to make good choices, follow the membership, and be a good member.
We all want better, so let's all commit to better. This is like a gym membership, if you pay the money you need to exercise to get stronger. If you pay money and never show up, it's stupid to assume somehow you get stronger.
RRJetPilot wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:26 am
IF there is a strike, please open a GoFundMe and I will donate to help the striking pilot costs.
Would the union pay the pilots some kind of wage during the strike? If so, how much?
Section 65 - Strike Policy of the Alpa Administrative Manual. $1,400 per month prorated if strike ends earlier.
edited to add proration under a month.
That manual was written by ALPA in the USA so is that $1400 USD or CAD?
Also has anyone ever seen a deal struck during the conciliation or the cooling off period ? I haven't.
I feel like the announcement of a stike or lockout is inevitable, the only question is if the government with pre-emptively at the 11th hour legislate them back to work or do it ASAP after 00:01 the day they walk
hithere wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 5:27 am
I feel like the announcement of a stike or lockout is inevitable, the only question is if the government with pre-emptively at the 11th hour legislate them back to work or do it ASAP after 00:01 the day they walk
hithere wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:16 am
To legislate them back to work and refer the matter to an arbitrator
That's the action, but to what end? What would that action accomplish politically? Why would the government have any incentive to step in and do something that has already proved wildly unpopular with the public in Ontario?
hithere wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:16 am
To legislate them back to work and refer the matter to an arbitrator
Is that legal in Canada, when in a legal strike position?
That would stress me out so much I'd be unfit for flying duty.
And that's not even a joke. I would really hate to be on an airplane piloted with a crew that most likely is feeling extreme anger and frustration towards their employer.
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
averageatbest wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:02 am
There are many things that we can do to increase safety and comfort for our passengers.
Fly faster to get your passengers where they have paid to go.
The APU will help keep them comfortable on the ground.
Landing in a crab will decrease your risk of a wing strike.
Pressing on the brakes harder will slow you down quicker, increasing the amount of extra runway and your margin of safety.
Set up the aircraft for landing sooner on approach. There is no need to wait and then rush to be configured by 1000'.
If you are unstable, go around. Seriously, go the @#$! around.
Don't take an aircraft that is not full suitable for the flight or any airport you will be operating at.
Also:
Your rest is very important. A rested pilot is a safe and alert pilot. Don’t pick up the phone on your days off and don’t go to work if you’re sick. That mild sore throat after an evening at the beaver could be early symptoms of some kind of Covid variant and that upset tummy could possibly be food poisoning. Better stay home and not risk infecting your colleagues, especially if you’re out of base.
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Complex systems won’t survive the competence crisis
Where I am, we were encouraged to "enjoy our days off" last spring and not answer the phone on GDOs or other non flying days. Cost the company millions bringing in wet leases from as far away as Malta and that was in our slow season. The union figured that if they had paid every pilot another $50K per year across the board for the rest of the contract (Dec 2024) it would have been less than the cost of the wet leases. They dug in heels. Then they were denied TFW's in the late fall/ early winter. Shortly thereafter, a significant number of people contracted "one day stomach flu". The wheels were already in motion for our LOU mid contract which gave us WS scale +2.5 this year and 2.5% next. Unheard of at this outfit. Then the December snow in YVR just accelerated the result of not paying people enough. The increase doesn't match what we lost in Nov 2020 but it's a start
We the pilots are just the most public face of what needs to happen industry wide and that is to pay people enough. We are all cheering you on WS mainline. Raise the bar.
ps
I think that in a previous life Alexis VH must have been a successful baseball pitching coach. His words will result in the word STRIKE.
Would the union pay the pilots some kind of wage during the strike? If so, how much?
Section 65 - Strike Policy of the Alpa Administrative Manual. $1,400 per month prorated if strike ends earlier.
edited to add proration under a month.
That manual was written by ALPA in the USA so is that $1400 USD or CAD?
Also has anyone ever seen a deal struck during the conciliation or the cooling off period ? I haven't.
I feel like the announcement of a stike or lockout is inevitable, the only question is if the government with pre-emptively at the 11th hour legislate them back to work or do it ASAP after 00:01 the day they walk
It is CAD for Canadian pilots and USD for the states.
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Until the gov invokes the notwithstanding clause like the Ontario PCs did against the teachers aides a couple of months ago. Look, I hope you are right and I hope the Westjet pilots achieve the gains they deserve but go into this with eyes wide open
hithere wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:29 pm
Until the gov invokes the notwithstanding clause like the Ontario PCs did against the teachers aides a couple of months ago. Look, I hope you are right and I hope the Westjet pilots achieve the gains they deserve but go into this with eyes wide open
I'll quote myself from the previous page of this topic...
To what end? What would that action accomplish politically? Why would the government have any incentive to step in and do something that has already proved wildly unpopular with the public in Ontario?
hithere wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:29 pm
Until the gov invokes the notwithstanding clause like the Ontario PCs did against the teachers aides a couple of months ago. Look, I hope you are right and I hope the Westjet pilots achieve the gains they deserve but go into this with eyes wide open
Preemptive intervention by the government is not legal. It’s why Ford tried the notwithstanding clause root. That was complete over reach and he was forced to retreat.
Intervention after the strike has been in progress for a bit is still possible though. The latest rail strike went two weeks. The parties, likely under pressure from the Feds, agreed to arbitration. But no legislation.
The Westjet pilots, by stating they will not agree to arbitration, are signaling from the outset that they are in this for the long haul.
hithere wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:29 pm
Until the gov invokes the notwithstanding clause like the Ontario PCs did against the teachers aides a couple of months ago. Look, I hope you are right and I hope the Westjet pilots achieve the gains they deserve but go into this with eyes wide open
For what it’s worth, the Canadian Federal Government has NEVER invoked the notwithstanding clause. So if you think they’ll use it for the first time in history on a privately owned, Western based airline, I’d love to hear your reasoning.
JBI wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:18 am
[quote=hithere post_id=<a href="tel:1243746">1243746</a> time=<a href="tel:1678328955">1678328955</a> user_id=7661]
Until the gov invokes the notwithstanding clause like the Ontario PCs did against the teachers aides a couple of months ago. Look, I hope you are right and I hope the Westjet pilots achieve the gains they deserve but go into this with eyes wide open
For what it’s worth, the Canadian Federal Government has NEVER invoked the notwithstanding clause. So if you think they’ll use it for the first time in history on a privately owned, Western based airline, I’d love to hear your reasoning.
[/quote]
Huh?? Then how did air canada pilots get forced back to work 10 years ago?
JBI wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:18 am
[quote=hithere post_id=<a href="tel:1243746">1243746</a> time=<a href="tel:1678328955">1678328955</a> user_id=7661]
Until the gov invokes the notwithstanding clause like the Ontario PCs did against the teachers aides a couple of months ago. Look, I hope you are right and I hope the Westjet pilots achieve the gains they deserve but go into this with eyes wide open
For what it’s worth, the Canadian Federal Government has NEVER invoked the notwithstanding clause. So if you think they’ll use it for the first time in history on a privately owned, Western based airline, I’d love to hear your reasoning.
Huh?? Then how did air canada pilots get forced back to work 10 years ago?
[/quote]
They were legislated back to work, or preemptively told they could not strike. The supreme court has since ruled that is not allowed by the Federal Government. It won't happen this time.
Westjet pilots need to be prepared to shutdown the airline, and to do so for weeks. Air Canada pilots did it in 1998.
