C of R Cancellation (3 Tails)

[CitationNation]

It appears that the C of R of 3 Tails seized (C-FLKD, C-FFLA, C-FLKI) were cancelled.

C-FLKD - Cancelled 2023-03-13

C-FFLA - Cancelled 2023-03-13

C-FLKI - Cancelled 2023-03-13

Source: Transport Canada Historical Registry

[co-joe]

...
C-FFLA - Cancelled 2023-03-13

...

Hey there is a silver lining here after all. Thanks, that cheered me up a bit.

[BE02 Driver]

It appears that the C of R of 3 Tails seized (C-FLKD, C-FFLA, C-FLKI) were cancelled.

C-FLKD - Cancelled 2023-03-13

C-FFLA - Cancelled 2023-03-13

C-FLKI - Cancelled 2023-03-13

Source: Transport Canada Historical Registry

The real question everyone is asking is how someone got same day service from Transport Canada.

[averageatbest]

It appears that the C of R of 3 Tails seized (C-FLKD, C-FFLA, C-FLKI) were cancelled.

C-FLKD - Cancelled 2023-03-13

C-FFLA - Cancelled 2023-03-13

C-FLKI - Cancelled 2023-03-13

Source: Transport Canada Historical Registry

The real question everyone is asking is how someone got same day service from Transport Canada.

That's because they needed to change their AOC and that costs a decent penny. For TC, money talks.

[CaptDukeNukem]

It appears that the C of R of 3 Tails seized (C-FLKD, C-FFLA, C-FLKI) were cancelled.

C-FLKD - Cancelled 2023-03-13

C-FFLA - Cancelled 2023-03-13

C-FLKI - Cancelled 2023-03-13

Source: Transport Canada Historical Registry

The real question everyone is asking is how someone got same day service from Transport Canada.

Lol.

[WJ200]

So, the "story" is "they" (unnamed but alluded to) pushed the leasing companies to repossess the planes so they could get them at a higher rate? But the C of R has been cancelled. But wait...we have $150M in aircraft sitting around as spares even though we are only 1M overdrawn? If you're an employee and taking this all at face value and not looking at other options you're not looking at the signs which are flashing neon green at this point.

[CaptDukeNukem]

So, the "story" is "they" (unnamed but alluded to) pushed the leasing companies to repossess the planes so they could get them at a higher rate? But the C of R has been cancelled. But wait...we have $150M in aircraft sitting around as spares even though we are only 1M overdrawn? If you're an employee and taking this all at face value and not looking at other options you're not looking at the signs which are flashing neon green at this point.

All airlines have spares sitting around. You’d be crazy not to have a spare aircraft on a regular day of work. I don’t think these spares were sitting for weeks or months not being utilized. Just part of the rotation. Now flair doesn’t have spares, or very few of them left.

And I doubt flair owned those airplanes also, so to say “we have $150 million dollars worth of airplane sitting ready”, is probably factually untrue. You have airplanes that can be used, sure, but don’t call them assets.

[PostmasterGeneral]

So, the "story" is "they" (unnamed but alluded to) pushed the leasing companies to repossess the planes so they could get them at a higher rate? But the C of R has been cancelled. But wait...we have $150M in aircraft sitting around as spares even though we are only 1M overdrawn? If you're an employee and taking this all at face value and not looking at other options you're not looking at the signs which are flashing neon green at this point.

All airlines have spares sitting around. You’d be crazy not to have a spare aircraft on a regular day of work. I don’t think these spares were sitting for weeks or months not being utilized. Just part of the rotation. Now flair doesn’t have spares, or very few of them left.

And I doubt flair owned those airplanes also, so to say “we have $150 million dollars worth of airplane sitting ready”, is probably factually untrue. You have airplanes that can be used, sure, but don’t call them assets.

They weren’t really usable spares like you’re alluding to. They were mothballed in the desert. Takes awhile to get a plane up and running out of storage.

[CaptDukeNukem]

So, the "story" is "they" (unnamed but alluded to) pushed the leasing companies to repossess the planes so they could get them at a higher rate? But the C of R has been cancelled. But wait...we have $150M in aircraft sitting around as spares even though we are only 1M overdrawn? If you're an employee and taking this all at face value and not looking at other options you're not looking at the signs which are flashing neon green at this point.

All airlines have spares sitting around. You’d be crazy not to have a spare aircraft on a regular day of work. I don’t think these spares were sitting for weeks or months not being utilized. Just part of the rotation. Now flair doesn’t have spares, or very few of them left.

And I doubt flair owned those airplanes also, so to say “we have $150 million dollars worth of airplane sitting ready”, is probably factually untrue. You have airplanes that can be used, sure, but don’t call them assets.

They weren’t really usable spares like you’re alluding to. They were mothballed in the desert. Takes awhile to get a plane up and running out of storage.

Fair enough. Regardless, still not assets.

[slicktop]

So, the "story" is "they" (unnamed but alluded to) pushed the leasing companies to repossess the planes so they could get them at a higher rate? But the C of R has been cancelled. But wait...we have $150M in aircraft sitting around as spares even though we are only 1M overdrawn? If you're an employee and taking this all at face value and not looking at other options you're not looking at the signs which are flashing neon green at this point.

I caught this as well in a news article. How Flair is now caught up because they had fins sitting unused that weren't supposed to hit the line until summer?

Honestly the more I read and hear about how this airline is operating (I chuckled reading that their pilots have to walk from a hotel to the airport every day for parking just to save a few bucks) the more I am concerned we will see them go belly up soon. And I would hate to see it, because the more competition for pilots in Canada, the better for all of us.

Perhaps it's time for a change in leadership and maybe a bit of slowing of their rapid growth plans. Grow more organically. Maybe focus on 3-4 main routes, and run multiple flights a day so when a flight gets cancelled the next flight is in a few hours instead of a few days or week. But I am a lowly underpaid airline pilot, what do I know.

[slicktop]

All airlines have spares sitting around. You’d be crazy not to have a spare aircraft on a regular day of work. I don’t think these spares were sitting for weeks or months not being utilized. Just part of the rotation. Now flair doesn’t have spares, or very few of them left.

"The Edmonton-based discount air carrier, Flair, currently has 19 planes in its operating schedule. Three other spare planes that had been standing by for the busy summer months were added to the schedule to help fill gaps left by the seized aircraft."

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/202 ... zures.html

Standing by for the summer months. Sounds like yes, they were sitting or planning to sit for a while.

[CFM Symphony]

All airlines have spares sitting around. You’d be crazy not to have a spare aircraft on a regular day of work. I don’t think these spares were sitting for weeks or months not being utilized. Just part of the rotation. Now flair doesn’t have spares, or very few of them left.

And I doubt flair owned those airplanes also, so to say “we have $150 million dollars worth of airplane sitting ready”, is probably factually untrue. You have airplanes that can be used, sure, but don’t call them assets.

They weren’t really usable spares like you’re alluding to. They were mothballed in the desert. Takes awhile to get a plane up and running out of storage.

Fair enough. Regardless, still not assets.

Since you insist on being nitpicky, I'll be nitpicky on your claim. Capital leases are no longer off-balance-sheet items. Under GAAP and IFRS, these leases have to now be reported on financial statements as debt and assets. A leased aircraft very much constitutes an asset.

[WJ200]

If they are sitting win the desert waiting for the call to the "big leagues" like you say, someone has to be paying the leases? If they are Flair aircraft you can either say Flair is paying that, or 777 is paying for it in which case it would circumvent the CTA decision. But one of those is true. If it is Flair, NOBODY has three aircraft as spares from a fleet of around 20 tails. The math isn't adding up and the assertions by Jones are not holding water. Surprise.

[CaptDukeNukem]

They weren’t really usable spares like you’re alluding to. They were mothballed in the desert. Takes awhile to get a plane up and running out of storage.

Fair enough. Regardless, still not assets.

Since you insist on being nitpicky, I'll be nitpicky on your claim. Capital leases are no longer off-balance-sheet items. Under GAAP and IFRS, these leases have to now be reported on financial statements as debt and assets. A leased aircraft very much constitutes an asset.

Again, I’m sure flair ain’t reporting them as assets. Debt maybe.

[CFM Symphony]

Fair enough. Regardless, still not assets.

Since you insist on being nitpicky, I'll be nitpicky on your claim. Capital leases are no longer off-balance-sheet items. Under GAAP and IFRS, these leases have to now be reported on financial statements as debt and assets. A leased aircraft very much constitutes an asset.

Again, I’m sure flair ain’t reporting them as assets. Debt maybe.

1. If they are reporting it as debt only, the balance sheet wouldn’t add up. When you add a liability on the right side, you have to add an asset on the left. 2. They are legally required to place leases on their balance sheet as of a few years ago. Specifically they have to add the present value of the financial obligation as a liability and a corresponding value as an asset.

The reason the rules are now what they are is that in the past airlines had many leases, none of which were on the balance sheet, which led to an over representation of profitability ratios such as RoA etc.

[TKTguy]

I saw on another site that 8 aircraft were registered to Flair in November and December last year and have had the registrations cancelled in January and February. This seems really odd right?

Mark |Common Name |Model Name |Serial Number |Service |Date Updated |Owner |Owner Regist. Since
C-FLQP Boeing 737-8 43566 Cancel C of R 2023-02-15 Flair Airlines Ltd 2022-12-13
C-FLKZ Boeing 737-8 62883 Cancel C of R 2023-02-09 Flair Airlines Ltd 2022-11-02
C-FLQF Boeing 737-8 43300 Cancel C of R 2023-02-09 Flair Airlines Ltd 2022-11-23
C-FLQG Boeing 737-8 43619 Cancel C of R 2023-02-09 Flair Airlines Ltd 2022-11-29
C-FLER Boeing 737-8 62874 Cancel C of R 2023-02-09 Flair Airlines Ltd 2022-11-21
C-FLBG Boeing 737-8 60135 Cancel C of R 2023-01-18 Flair Airlines Ltd 2022-12-19
C-FLGD Boeing 737-8 43564 Cancel C of R 2023-01-18 Flair Airlines Ltd 2022-12-19
C-FLKS Boeing 737-8 62881 Cancel C of R 2022-12-19 Flair Airlines Ltd 2022-08-31

[CaptDukeNukem]

Since you insist on being nitpicky, I'll be nitpicky on your claim. Capital leases are no longer off-balance-sheet items. Under GAAP and IFRS, these leases have to now be reported on financial statements as debt and assets. A leased aircraft very much constitutes an asset.

Again, I’m sure flair ain’t reporting them as assets. Debt maybe.

1. If they are reporting it as debt only, the balance sheet wouldn’t add up. When you add a liability on the right side, you have to add an asset on the left. 2. They are legally required to place leases on their balance sheet as of a few years ago. Specifically they have to add the present value of the financial obligation as a liability and a corresponding value as an asset.

The reason the rules are now what they are is that in the past airlines had many leases, none of which were on the balance sheet, which led to an over representation of profitability ratios such as RoA etc.

Interesting! Did not know that. Totally makes sense. Thanks for explaining

[CitationNation]

Sunwing Has now purchased 3 FLAIR tails in the past month..CFLKZ, CFLQG, CFLER.

[boeingboy]

Sunwing Has now purchased 3 FLAIR tails in the past month..CFLKZ, CFLQG, CFLER.

Yea - but they were never registered. The ones Sunwing got were sent to the desert out of the Boeing factory and still have delivery N numbers. They were never imported.

[CitationNation]

Not quite correct:

C-FLER was registered Nov 2022 and stored by Flair
C-FLQG was registered Nov 2022 and stored by Flair
C-FLKZ was registered Nov 2022 and stored by Flair

Despite them not operating for Fair, they were Painted in Fair colours and stored....

[co-joe]

Sunwing Has now purchased 3 FLAIR tails in the past month..CFLKZ, CFLQG, CFLER.

You mean WestJet has now purchased 3 tails that were originally slated to join Flair but never did. Now WestJet can use them to augment capacity when their pilots walk off the job on the May long weekend, using their wholly owned subsidiary Sunwing to operate them at lower wages and working conditions.

[Hangry]

Stop it! That kind of talk is gonna get your buddy tbaylx all hot and bothered.

[co-joe]

You know I'm right, personal attacks on my or my boss' character wont change the truth and you know it. Keep slinging mud if it makes you feel better about your small pee pee.

[flyinhigh]

Sunwing Has now purchased 3 FLAIR tails in the past month..CFLKZ, CFLQG, CFLER.

You mean WestJet has now purchased 3 tails that were originally slated to join Flair but never did. Now WestJet can use them to augment capacity when their pilots walk off the job on the May long weekend, using their wholly owned subsidiary Sunwing to operate them at lower wages and working conditions.

You might be right, and when the pilots come back with better WAWCON they will pick up were they left off and you will still be there making a crappy wage at a sketchy company with no increase of wawcon for a long time. Oh, and than when the unions form one, another round will begin to bring everyone up, yet Flair will still be lacking.

[ads-b]

Hey co-joe. Don’t tell anyone. Sunwing makes more than westjet pilots (currently) and we will never be a B scale. The 3 aircraft sunwing just grabbed were sitting mothballed waiting for flair. But alas you didn’t take them when they were scheduled back in 2021.

Let me know how expanding into profitability works out.

I don’t think 3 planes are going to cover westjets flying. Just a hunch.