I got a call from a pilot/member of the WestJet recruitment team today. Long story short, he was curious what kind've experience I gained over the last few months to see if WestJet or the group of companies would be interested in taking me on. I initially applied for Encore, but went with another 705 regional op. I have not applied to mainline or anywhere else, this call just came out of the blue.
Is WestJet an absolute dumpster fire right now or would it be something to consider? I hope you, the pilots, get what you deserve. That management video has circulated throughout the entire industry and I'll be damned if I want to work for someone with that mindset. Shrink your operation, or go shopping for pilots on the street that haven't even applied
Looking for a genuine comment from someone on the inside. Is it worth coming over, or am I better off holding out for literally any other mainline?
I think WJ will turn the tide soon. All this negativity will be met with a reasonable contract in the coming months. The business will get a reality check and will have to surrender to the demands. All things considered, the airline is still not a bad gig and flies good equipment with reasonably loyal happy customers. Even though all these threads spread a lot of negativity, I know a lot of pilots (juniors) who are pretty happy with their lifestyle/job at westjet. The new contract is mostly to just remain competitive in NA so pilots stop leaving for better opportunities. That being said, the job is STILL good compared to working at regionals. Don’t let negativity skew your entire perspective. Soon, if the corporation decides to keep its doors open, a new “fairish” contract will be written which will improve the job further. Of course, other mainlines in Canada will be quick to follow suit/react to whatever westjet drops which will potentially put us again into the least competitive pay scale again. However, I imagine the pay scale change will be substantial and lifestyle will improve with time. Being mainline pilot overall, is one of the better jobs you can get across the spectrum of possible jobs out there. Be happy someone called you for one of the best coolest jobs in the world (all things considered). I have heard Transat and AC would be a better option though if you’d prefer to wait it out.
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Last edited by Out to Lunch 101 on Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
I wouldn't exactly call that "random" or "out of the blue" if you did apply to encore a while back, but if you applied and then withdrew your submission after you got your other job, and they still called you weeks/months later, now that's where I would say it gets a little interesting...
twa22 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:17 pm
I wouldn't exactly call that "random" or "out of the blue" if you did apply to encore a while back, but if you applied and then withdrew your submission after you got your other job, and they still called you weeks/months later, now that's where I would say it gets a little interesting...
I told Christi I was going to pursue other opportunities in Toronto, thought that was a clear withdraw
I remember serving as a reference for a WestJet applicant a few years back. She ended the conversation by asking if I was still happy at my job. I thought that was quite subtle and funny
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Yolked wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:43 pm
Is WestJet an absolute dumpster fire right now or would it be something to consider?
Is it worth coming over, or am I better off holding out for literally any other mainline?
Honestly, and I'm not proud of this but,
Remember Air Canada during the Robert Milton era? Well, that's us right now. Looking at Air Canada, it is much better today... so things change. When they will change or if they change while there's still a dumpster to save, I cannot say. There needs to be an overhaul at the top of the company in their attitude, direction and desire to have a successful company once again instead of being at war with their own employees just to prove how right they are. The wait continues.
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I'm going to knock this up a notch with my spice weasle. Bam!
Honestly I don’t really understand all the negativity. We are in contract negotiations which can be toxic. When it’s all settled everyone will forget about it and life will go on. Most of the negativity I hear is coming from pilots feeding off pilots etc. Mostly rumours and things taken out of context.
I’m fairly new to WestJet. Less than a year. I’m keeping an open mind. Management has been fairly open about their plan as far as I can tell with their regular group lives. I don’t agree with everything but not everyone ever will.
So far great schedule, non seniority bidding, spent a couple months on reserve, got Xmas and new years off after a few months on the job, nice layovers/destinations and every Captain I’ve flown with so far has been nothing but great to work with.
Aviator12 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:31 pm
I’m fairly new to WestJet. Less than a year.
The kool-aid takes a little over a year to wear off.
You might not have seen the shift from empowering employees to degrading and gaslighting them, but it has happened.
I have said it before and I will continue to say it... the current path that WestJet management has chosen is increasing risk unnecessarily across the board. Safety critical positions go understaffed, flights get cancelled, management gets bonuses while pilots get told that the company would rather park planes than pay pilots a livable wage.
Yolked wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:43 pm
Is WestJet an absolute dumpster fire right now or would it be something to consider?
You say that you wanted YYZ. The company says that Toronto is not making money and that they'd rather park planes than pay pilots.
There are nearly twice as many grievances per pilot at WestJet than at Air Canada because the company's default response is always "no, you're wrong." The wait for arbitration is in the years.
Ask yourself if you want to be one of the five off the street hires in your class at WestJet or one of twenty at Air Canada.
twa22 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:17 pm
I wouldn't exactly call that "random" or "out of the blue" if you did apply to encore a while back, but if you applied and then withdrew your submission after you got your other job, and they still called you weeks/months later, now that's where I would say it gets a little interesting...
I told Christi I was going to pursue other opportunities in Toronto, thought that was a clear withdraw
When? Before you got this random call? If you didn't withdraw your online app and you got a call months later, this wasn't random... I had that happen to me this summer, where I had an application put in at a company almost a year prior, I forgot to withdraw it, and then I got called asking if I was still interested... that's not random
I have no idea about your personal circumstances- that will have a big determinant on where you go. I flew with a new FO recently. He was hired at WJ and his GF at AC the same month. He said he's far happier at WJ than his GF is at AC. He makes more money and gets a better schedule than she does.
averageatbest wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:50 am
I have said it before and I will continue to say it... the current path that WestJet management has chosen is increasing risk unnecessarily across the board. Safety critical positions go understaffed, flights get cancelled, management gets bonuses while pilots get told that the company would rather park planes than pay pilots a livable wage.
In his defense, he said that he'd rather park planes than agree to the CA that ALPA is proposing. A livable wage is something entirely different.
Yolked wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:43 pm
I got a call from a pilot/member of the WestJet recruitment team today. Long story short, he was curious what kind've experience I gained over the last few months to see if WestJet or the group of companies would be interested in taking me on. I initially applied for Encore, but went with another 705 regional op. I have not applied to mainline or anywhere else, this call just came out of the blue.
Is WestJet an absolute dumpster fire right now or would it be something to consider? I hope you, the pilots, get what you deserve. That management video has circulated throughout the entire industry and I'll be damned if I want to work for someone with that mindset. Shrink your operation, or go shopping for pilots on the street that haven't even applied
Looking for a genuine comment from someone on the inside. Is it worth coming over, or am I better off holding out for literally any other mainline?
Exactly how training bonds come about a few years back. Apply to the majors they turn you down. Go to some other company build a few hours to meet the major mins and i am out of here.
Bede wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:10 am
I have no idea about your personal circumstances- that will have a big determinant on where you go. I flew with a new FO recently. He was hired at WJ and his GF at AC the same month. He said he's far happier at WJ than his GF is at AC. He makes more money and gets a better schedule than she does.
He is happier because his girlfriend is an Air Canada pilot. That would make anybody happier.
Bede wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:10 am
... He makes more money and gets a better schedule than she does.
Virtually every single airline pilot in the world makes more money and has a better schedule than she does though. As do a lot of Flight Attendants, garbage collectors, busboys, fast food workers.....
averageatbest wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:50 am
I have said it before and I will continue to say it... the current path that WestJet management has chosen is increasing risk unnecessarily across the board. Safety critical positions go understaffed, flights get cancelled, management gets bonuses while pilots get told that the company would rather park planes than pay pilots a livable wage.
In his defense, he said that he'd rather park planes than agree to the CA that ALPA is proposing. A livable wage is something entirely different.
The proposal that ALPA is making is significantly less than what's being paid in the US. ALPA is demanding better pay, scope protection, merger language, better working conditions, and a myriad of other small improvements to contract language.
The proposal that the company is making is to split pilots into groups that are paid differently, less protection for employees, and language that will continue to force pilots to choose between their seniority and moving to a company that understands that in order to grow, you need pilots.
From my experience in this industry, every company has positives and negatives. The question everyone has to ask themselves is if what they conceive to be positive out-weighs the negatives. Not everything is perfect here or elsewhere, nor what I desire be what you may - otherwise we would all be on a beach with a stogie and a glass of scotch. I've been at WestJet a while now, worked on a few different types, in a few different departments. The greatest asset WestJet has is its people. Throw away the labels of being "teal," "company guy," "westjetter" or "union guy," "Alpa guy," and "anti company." We have a very professional safety orientated group of aviators who care. On both sides! One has a responsibility to the Board, the other to the pilots.
As pilots, sometimes our emotions act without the benefit of intellect. As a private company we now have a strategic advantage not having to publish financials, forecasting, future expansion plans to stimulate the analysts in pumping our stocks. However, as a by-product we as a group do not have any knowledge or insight on the same items - which breeds fear and anxiety. We have pivoted our direction post covid and I believe once both sides have signed CA2, this conversation will be much different.
In regards to a major 705 carrier calling for a resume update. Just for a second lets take a collective breath and think where this industry is now vs 5-10 years ago. No longer does a up and coming pilot need to .. run valleys in the north while waking up every 3 hours during the night to ensure the jenny is still heating the plane to build hours.
All carriers are becoming creative now in attracting what supply of pilots are left. Call backs, emails, walk-in interviews, cadet programs, flight path programs, flight school mentorship, and maybe one day an ab-initio day 1 hire.
To specifically answer Yolked's question whether it's better to come over or hold out for any other airline. I can't, I don't know you or where you currently are working, living, age, marital status, kids - all the things that matter in life. Health is what matters, and if you're not sure then why don't you take Christi up on the interview and come ask some pointed questions to get clear response vs other methods. Interviews are as much for you as the potential company.
Oleo 4 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:59 am
Health is what matters, and if you're not sure then why don't you take Christi up on the interview and come ask some pointed questions to get clear response vs other methods. Interviews are as much for you as the potential company.
Been at Westjet for almost 9 years, have held and lived in all 3 bases.
I get a pretty good schedule most months, have excellent vacation and have alot of fun with the crews I fly with. I collect the pay I signed up for, and don't bring work home, EVER. I view this as a job, nothing more. I owe nothing to the company and the company owes me nothing.
I also fly with some miserable people, in their minds the sky is always falling, the Corp is out to get them and life is a drag, I truly feel sorry for them. These guys would be unhappy anywhere they go under any conditions, truly out of touch.
As soon as one recognizes that one would be alot happier if you just tune out the noise, get off of the toxic group chats where speculation and doomsday scenarios dominate the conversation.. life instantly gets better. This is very difficult for some especially right now during Negotiations. Life is too good to focus all your energy on how "bad" Westjet is. If you don't enjoy your job that much, maybe its time for a change. No contract will ever make that better for you.
Don't get me wrong, things can always improve. I don't care what management or our CEO says on a daily basis, they don't matter to me one bit. I am the one who decided to exhange my time for this particular paycheque.
I support my union 100% and will strike indefinitely if that is what it takes to get competitive wages. But at the moment, life is good. I make a very livable wage because I live within my means, invest all my WSP for retirement and have a bright future. And yes I have a family and live in one of the most expensive cities in the world.
And let's stop the AC is better than WJ or WJ is better than flair nonesense.. its just a job. Everyone made their choices to work for different companies to take care of them selves and their families. I really don't understand the hostility. We are just guys and girls working at different companies.
What he said, except I have 21 years in. Flown the -200 , NG, Max and 787. I'm a union man through and through, having helped to organize the WPPA using hotel stationary. Currently I volunteer on a couple of union committees and intend to leave the place better than I found it.
I'm glad to hear that you're saving 100% of the ESP. There's no such thing as a get rich quick scheme, but this is as close as I've found.
For now, I bid by temperature and I"m saving up to quit.
