New Flair Staff Travel

[CaptDukeNukem]

Locator didn’t work for me. They gave me a boarding pass at the counter.

Thanks, I wonder if they'll resolve that part to be able to check in by yourself online. Any issues at the counter? Did you pay the fees on myID or counter?

No issues at the counter. What I paid on myID is what I paid total.

AC, WJ and Porter all allow online check-in. AC app is great in that it shows the standby list. WJ has recently updated their app to update your boarding pass once issued which is also nice. Would be nice to see Porter move to myID for jumpseat. Not sure why they aren’t as you can book standby for them there.

MyId Probably coming for porter soon ish. The RJP form they make you sign is kinda annoying. I was operating yyz-yyc the other day and had like 8 forms from commuters I had to authorize. All it’s gonna take is for one flight to get delayed cuz the captain had to take pictures of a dozen 8x11” pieces of paper and email them to the company prior to pushing.

[ywgyqgguy]

well....MyID does charge a fee for every booking. If your a commuter that adds up. Personally....a form to fill out....that could potentially over time save $$$ to the end user...I wish more airlines had their own booking tool that didn't charge them.

[cdnavater]

Thanks, I wonder if they'll resolve that part to be able to check in by yourself online. Any issues at the counter? Did you pay the fees on myID or counter?

No issues at the counter. What I paid on myID is what I paid total.

AC, WJ and Porter all allow online check-in. AC app is great in that it shows the standby list. WJ has recently updated their app to update your boarding pass once issued which is also nice. Would be nice to see Porter move to myID for jumpseat. Not sure why they aren’t as you can book standby for them there.

MyId Probably coming for porter soon ish. The RJP form they make you sign is kinda annoying. I was operating yyz-yyc the other day and had like 8 forms from commuters I had to authorize. All it’s gonna take is for one flight to get delayed cuz the captain had to take pictures of a dozen 8x11” pieces of paper and email them to the company prior to pushing.

That’s interesting for sure, the information I had is there is a limit of one RJP per flight, are you confirming no limit. Also, asking for a friend, no seriously I am because you don’t fly to my airport yet, anyhow apparently the form that is signed says the RJP will not consume alcohol on the flight. Obviously you wouldn’t do this in uniform but how sticky are you on this policy for a business casual dressed commuter?
Me personally I don’t care, I don’t drink on flights anyhow, can’t stand paying 10-12 bucks for a can of beer. I just bought 5 cases of 30 Michelob ultras for 1.47 per can, big sale but I’ll wait until I get home and drink my cheap beer. Lol

[braaap Braap]

That’s interesting for sure, the information I had is there is a limit of one RJP per flight, are you confirming no limit. Also, asking for a friend, no seriously I am because you don’t fly to my airport yet, anyhow apparently the form that is signed says the RJP will not consume alcohol on the flight. Obviously you wouldn’t do this in uniform but how sticky are you on this policy for a business casual dressed commuter?
Me personally I don’t care, I don’t drink on flights anyhow, can’t stand paying 10-12 bucks for a can of beer. I just bought 5 cases of 30 Michelob ultras for 1.47 per can, big sale but I’ll wait until I get home and drink my cheap beer. Lol

The limit of 1 RJP is for Porter employees. Both aircraft types have 1 Jumpseat so Porter allows 1 Porter employee to jumpseat for $0. OAL jumpseaters have no limit (but must pay fees). There is no mention of alcohol consumption on the RJP form. Jumpseaters are served just like everyone else.

[Vanguard]

In recognition of employees' contributions to growing our airline Flair has just announced one of the most flexible and comprehensive staff travel policies in Canada.


1- staff may nominate up to 6 Nominees eligible for unlimited standby travel. The nominees do not have to be related to the employee.

2- Eight positive space travel certificates per year to all staff who have completed one year of service. These posi space tickets can be used by staff or their nominees or given away as positive space buddy passes.

3- 4 one-way space available buddy passes every quarter, 16 per year. They are valid for 12 months from the date of issue and can be given to anyone the employee chooses.

In addition, all staff will soon have ID travel on Other Airlines available through MyIDTravel and pilots will continue to have access to the existing and rapidly expanding pilot reciprocal jumpseat program.

You should have some shame.

I have read through dozens and dozens of flair threads as well as other airlines on this board and I still don't understand the hatred for the CP at flair or the company as a whole. I havent worked there, but I also haven't seem any posts from ex employees that say bad things about how bad things were while there are plenty of ex WJ or Jazz, cargojet employees who have bad things to say about their previous employer. Perhaps the posts exist, and maybe I will be directed towards them, but im lost for words on why there is a larger hate-on for flair than for others.

There is hatred because the CP of Flair Airlines as well as a few other management pilots defied a 2018 IFALPA ban and accepted poor working conditions and extremely low wages at Swoop Airlines to get the airline started up. At the time of the announcement of Swoop — WestJet pilots unionized the next day at the announcement of Swoop Airlines and ended up in arbitration. They were able to secure the Swoop flying (Westjet pilots flying swoop airplanes) but the arbitrator did not give them the pay back. These pilots then left Swoop to join Flair — in equal if not worse conditions.

The WestJet pilots are negotiating right now and I expect they will do well with their negotiations but the pain of Swoop has cost our industry and many pilots personally a lot.

The Flair management pilots are regarded as scabs of our industry if an official list like the US would be made. Make no mistake — people will never forget.

The CP was further featured in a news article:

https://torontolife.com/life/weve-seen- ... -pandemic/


These pilots came from their oversees jobs making what they did and were willing to accept shit pay to start up an airline when the whole industry put a ban on accepting those positions.

They then manipulated and negotiated their crap contract just recently when they had the opportunity to do so much better.

[Arnie Pye]

You should have some shame.

I have read through dozens and dozens of flair threads as well as other airlines on this board and I still don't understand the hatred for the CP at flair or the company as a whole. I havent worked there, but I also haven't seem any posts from ex employees that say bad things about how bad things were while there are plenty of ex WJ or Jazz, cargojet employees who have bad things to say about their previous employer. Perhaps the posts exist, and maybe I will be directed towards them, but im lost for words on why there is a larger hate-on for flair than for others.

There is hatred because the CP of Flair Airlines as well as a few other management pilots defied a 2018 IFALPA ban and accepted poor working conditions and extremely low wages at Swoop Airlines to get the airline started up. At the time of the announcement of Swoop — WestJet pilots unionized the next day at the announcement of Swoop Airlines and ended up in arbitration. They were able to secure the Swoop flying (Westjet pilots flying swoop airplanes) but the arbitrator did not give them the pay back. These pilots then left Swoop to join Flair — in equal if not worse conditions.

The WestJet pilots are negotiating right now and I expect they will do well with their negotiations but the pain of Swoop has cost our industry and many pilots personally a lot.

The Flair management pilots are regarded as scabs of our industry if an official list like the US would be made. Make no mistake — people will never forget.

The CP was further featured in a news article:

https://torontolife.com/life/weve-seen- ... -pandemic/


These pilots came from their oversees jobs making what they did and were willing to accept shit pay to start up an airline when the whole industry put a ban on accepting those positions.

They then manipulated and negotiated their crap contract just recently when they had the opportunity to do so much better.

It is absolutely irrelevant where the chief pilot lives. There is no minimum size or type of housing required by position in this industry. Continuing to bring this point up makes you look like a fool.
Before you go and tell me I'm an apologist, be sure to read my many other posts criticizing him and the company on a million other things. Housing will not be one of them.

Back to discussing staff travel, weren't we supposed to get passes quarterly? That was two weeks ago, what gives?

[CaptDukeNukem]

I have read through dozens and dozens of flair threads as well as other airlines on this board and I still don't understand the hatred for the CP at flair or the company as a whole. I havent worked there, but I also haven't seem any posts from ex employees that say bad things about how bad things were while there are plenty of ex WJ or Jazz, cargojet employees who have bad things to say about their previous employer. Perhaps the posts exist, and maybe I will be directed towards them, but im lost for words on why there is a larger hate-on for flair than for others.

There is hatred because the CP of Flair Airlines as well as a few other management pilots defied a 2018 IFALPA ban and accepted poor working conditions and extremely low wages at Swoop Airlines to get the airline started up. At the time of the announcement of Swoop — WestJet pilots unionized the next day at the announcement of Swoop Airlines and ended up in arbitration. They were able to secure the Swoop flying (Westjet pilots flying swoop airplanes) but the arbitrator did not give them the pay back. These pilots then left Swoop to join Flair — in equal if not worse conditions.

The WestJet pilots are negotiating right now and I expect they will do well with their negotiations but the pain of Swoop has cost our industry and many pilots personally a lot.

The Flair management pilots are regarded as scabs of our industry if an official list like the US would be made. Make no mistake — people will never forget.

The CP was further featured in a news article:

https://torontolife.com/life/weve-seen- ... -pandemic/


These pilots came from their oversees jobs making what they did and were willing to accept shit pay to start up an airline when the whole industry put a ban on accepting those positions.

They then manipulated and negotiated their crap contract just recently when they had the opportunity to do so much better.

It is absolutely irrelevant where the chief pilot lives. There is no minimum size or type of housing required by position in this industry. Continuing to bring this point up makes you look like a fool.
Before you go and tell me I'm an apologist, be sure to read my many other posts criticizing him and the company on a million other things. Housing will not be one of them.

Back to discussing staff travel, weren't we supposed to get passes quarterly? That was two weeks ago, what gives?

I once tried to travel on reciprocal jumpseat passes with flair so I could commute. The timing of the flight was perfect. Followed all procedures, emailed 7 days ahead of time, even called and left voicemail.

Never heard back, even after the fact. I hear things are better with MyIdtravel. But not perfect….

Regardless. I prefer not to have that wildcard in my schedule.
I’ve travelled flair confirmed in the past, not a bad experience. But the RJP program was crap… I hope it’s been improved

[Vanguard]

I have read through dozens and dozens of flair threads as well as other airlines on this board and I still don't understand the hatred for the CP at flair or the company as a whole. I havent worked there, but I also haven't seem any posts from ex employees that say bad things about how bad things were while there are plenty of ex WJ or Jazz, cargojet employees who have bad things to say about their previous employer. Perhaps the posts exist, and maybe I will be directed towards them, but im lost for words on why there is a larger hate-on for flair than for others.

There is hatred because the CP of Flair Airlines as well as a few other management pilots defied a 2018 IFALPA ban and accepted poor working conditions and extremely low wages at Swoop Airlines to get the airline started up. At the time of the announcement of Swoop — WestJet pilots unionized the next day at the announcement of Swoop Airlines and ended up in arbitration. They were able to secure the Swoop flying (Westjet pilots flying swoop airplanes) but the arbitrator did not give them the pay back. These pilots then left Swoop to join Flair — in equal if not worse conditions.

The WestJet pilots are negotiating right now and I expect they will do well with their negotiations but the pain of Swoop has cost our industry and many pilots personally a lot.

The Flair management pilots are regarded as scabs of our industry if an official list like the US would be made. Make no mistake — people will never forget.

The CP was further featured in a news article:

https://torontolife.com/life/weve-seen- ... -pandemic/


These pilots came from their oversees jobs making what they did and were willing to accept shit pay to start up an airline when the whole industry put a ban on accepting those positions.

They then manipulated and negotiated their crap contract just recently when they had the opportunity to do so much better.

It is absolutely irrelevant where the chief pilot lives. There is no minimum size or type of housing required by position in this industry. Continuing to bring this point up makes you look like a fool.
Before you go and tell me I'm an apologist, be sure to read my many other posts criticizing him and the company on a million other things. Housing will not be one of them.

Back to discussing staff travel, weren't we supposed to get passes quarterly? That was two weeks ago, what gives?

I don’t care where he lives. His life choices shouldn’t be imposed on the rest of us to accept lower wages and shit conditions but clearly Flair pilots don’t really care. That was the point - he can live under a tent and I have no judgement until it affects the rest of the industry.

[braaap Braap]

He’s management, of course hes going to try and get the rates lower. He didnt kidnap anyone with his van and force them to accept the deal. Thats a failure from the union leadership.

His vanlife has next to nothing to do with the flair conditions and anyone poking at or attacking his personal life needs to grow up. I say next to nothing because it would give him a bias but thats up to the pilot group/bargaining unit to push against.

[GRK2]

These pilots came from their oversees jobs making what they did and were willing to accept shit pay to start up an airline when the whole industry put a ban on accepting those positions.

They then manipulated and negotiated their crap contract just recently when they had the opportunity to do so much better.

Completely wrong...almost every single pilot you accuse of coming home and contributing to lowering the bar were actually let go. Emirates, Etihad, Cathay and those who worked in China and other expat pilot centric postings were terminated, lost bases, and sent home. To accuse those who, through no fault of their own, as the creators of what the management teams in this industry created themselves shows how little you actually know about the Canadian industry. Please get it right before you toss out your crap.

[twa22]

These pilots came from their oversees jobs making what they did and were willing to accept shit pay to start up an airline when the whole industry put a ban on accepting those positions.

They then manipulated and negotiated their crap contract just recently when they had the opportunity to do so much better.

Completely wrong...almost every single pilot you accuse of coming home and contributing to lowering the bar were actually let go. Emirates, Etihad, Cathay and those who worked in China and other expat pilot centric postings were terminated, lost bases, and sent home. To accuse those who, through no fault of their own, as the creators of what the management teams in this industry created themselves shows how little you actually know about the Canadian industry. Please get it right before you toss out your crap.

I have a few friends at these various companies you mentioned, and as far as I know, and have been told, there was never a moment in the last 20 years, other then covid, that any of these airlines terminated pilots without cause, so if Flairs management pilots are mostly expats and were let go during good times, please enlighten us as to why, as your statement raises a few red flags right from the get go....

[Vanguard]

These pilots came from their oversees jobs making what they did and were willing to accept shit pay to start up an airline when the whole industry put a ban on accepting those positions.

They then manipulated and negotiated their crap contract just recently when they had the opportunity to do so much better.

Completely wrong...almost every single pilot you accuse of coming home and contributing to lowering the bar were actually let go. Emirates, Etihad, Cathay and those who worked in China and other expat pilot centric postings were terminated, lost bases, and sent home. To accuse those who, through no fault of their own, as the creators of what the management teams in this industry created themselves shows how little you actually know about the Canadian industry. Please get it right before you toss out your crap.

I probably know way more than you may even understand.

So it’s okay for them to return to Canada and accept 98k for 737 CA position just because their egos don’t allow them to sit in the right seat anymore? Left seat or nothing eh…

You do realize what that did to our Canadian industry when people are willing to accept 98k for a 737 captain. Let’s wake up and look around.


Also accept that job knowing there is a IFALPA ban in place and that WJ was in a middle of a battle?

[GRK2]

IFALPA ban....oooh, that'll make em sit up and lie awake at night hey? There's no doubt that some "housecleaning" took place and a few were sent packing. However the majority were sent home due to a downsizing, or Covid or base closures and age limits in foreign countries. Out of work and wondering how to stay afloat financially is hardly any reason to not want to support a family. Stop blaming someone who needs to make ends meet for taking a job. By the way, the number isn't 98K anymore, it's climbing and if we all keep the pressure on the ownership and management it'll keep going. Crawl, walk, run...

[twa22]

However the majority were sent home due to a downsizing, or Covid or base closures and age limits in foreign countries. Out of work and wondering how to stay afloat financially is hardly any reason to not want to support a family. Stop blaming someone who needs to make ends meet for taking a job.

Not quite sure if this is in any shape a reply to what I posted, but I don't know which of those airlines you mentioned downsized anytime in the last 20 years, other then the covid layoffs. Mandatory age retirements? Where? All those airlines you mentioned are 60 plus and have been for a while, much like every other airline in the world, so I find it hard to believe anyone was forced to leave due to age limits.

Look, 737 CA making 98k is an utter joke, and saying that now it's going up is irrelevant, it should've never been that to begin with, no matter the excuse

Also, if you were an expat for years and couldn't stay afloat for a little bit till your next job, that's a big, big problem, as we all know how much expats make, especially CAs in some of these places

[CaptDukeNukem]

These pilots came from their oversees jobs making what they did and were willing to accept shit pay to start up an airline when the whole industry put a ban on accepting those positions.

They then manipulated and negotiated their crap contract just recently when they had the opportunity to do so much better.

Completely wrong...almost every single pilot you accuse of coming home and contributing to lowering the bar were actually let go. Emirates, Etihad, Cathay and those who worked in China and other expat pilot centric postings were terminated, lost bases, and sent home. To accuse those who, through no fault of their own, as the creators of what the management teams in this industry created themselves shows how little you actually know about the Canadian industry. Please get it right before you toss out your crap.

I probably know way more than you may even understand.

So it’s okay for them to return to Canada and accept 98k for 737 CA position just because their egos don’t allow them to sit in the right seat anymore? Left seat or nothing eh…

You do realize what that did to our Canadian industry when people are willing to accept 98k for a 737 captain. Let’s wake up and look around.


Also accept that job knowing there is a IFALPA ban in place and that WJ was in a middle of a battle?

What are you going on about? IFALFA? Yea, cuz we’re gonna respect that… for sure….. when unions and companies here ain’t doing anything either.

Im also curious as much as the above members questioning your last post, which airline in Canada pays 98k$ for a 737 captain?

[khedrei]

These pilots came from their oversees jobs making what they did and were willing to accept shit pay to start up an airline when the whole industry put a ban on accepting those positions.

They then manipulated and negotiated their crap contract just recently when they had the opportunity to do so much better.

Completely wrong...almost every single pilot you accuse of coming home and contributing to lowering the bar were actually let go. Emirates, Etihad, Cathay and those who worked in China and other expat pilot centric postings were terminated, lost bases, and sent home. To accuse those who, through no fault of their own, as the creators of what the management teams in this industry created themselves shows how little you actually know about the Canadian industry. Please get it right before you toss out your crap.

I probably know way more than you may even understand.

So it’s okay for them to return to Canada and accept 98k for 737 CA position just because their egos don’t allow them to sit in the right seat anymore? Left seat or nothing eh…

You do realize what that did to our Canadian industry when people are willing to accept 98k for a 737 captain. Let’s wake up and look around.


Also accept that job knowing there is a IFALPA ban in place and that WJ was in a middle of a battle?

What are you going on about? IFALFA? Yea, cuz we’re gonna respect that… for sure….. when unions and companies here ain’t doing anything either.

Im also curious as much as the above members questioning your last post, which airline in Canada pays 98k$ for a 737 captain?

Swoop. According to the last pay scale that was posted several months ago. I think it was 99k to be more accurate.

[Vanguard]

IFALPA ban....oooh, that'll make em sit up and lie awake at night hey? There's no doubt that some "housecleaning" took place and a few were sent packing. However the majority were sent home due to a downsizing, or Covid or base closures and age limits in foreign countries. Out of work and wondering how to stay afloat financially is hardly any reason to not want to support a family. Stop blaming someone who needs to make ends meet for taking a job. By the way, the number isn't 98K anymore, it's climbing and if we all keep the pressure on the ownership and management it'll keep going. Crawl, walk, run...

LOL. THE NUMBER ISNT 98K ANYMORE? It sure was and they did it. Now they brought it up to 140k? which is still quite low but clearly you won’t agree to that and they accepted 97k at that time.


DO THE MATH. No more excuses. Scabs will be scabs. These guys are the worst of the industry. I find it fascinating they don't even keep SWOOP on their beefed up linkedin profiles.

My god. I wonder if you are one of those idiots.

To ACCEPT a job at that rate because you need to make ends meet? We have heard this excuse before. Brutal. People like you should just quit aviation. It is exactly this mentality that keeps us so far from proper wages in Canada. I feel for all those people who lost their upgrades for years because of these pilots but you are quite wrong if you don’t think they caused damage to every pilot in Canada.

[flyinhigh]

To ACCEPT a job at that rate because you need to make ends meet? We have heard this excuse before. Brutal. People like you should just quit aviation. It is exactly this mentality that keeps us so far from proper wages in Canada. I feel for all those people who lost their upgrades for years because of these pilots but you are quite wrong if you don’t think they caused damage to every pilot in Canada.

Ok let’s cool down abit here. Everyone always says this drivel about making ends meet. Reality is, if someone has a family to feed, house to pay for and is out of work with nothing to fall back on, then yes they are going to take what they can. I personally will not fault anyone for doing so.

Hell, we have 4000 none expat pilots in Canada that force just this exact issue everyday. Everyone complains about it, yet the next day 99% of the pilots here will jump on the pony and ride off into the sunset.

The main key is fixing the WAWCON as it stands. They did bump it up, (although epically failed while doing so) which made Porter bump there’s. Next was sunwing, with WestJet soon to follow. The effect will continue to a point where we can all agree that we are happy…….errrr nevermind we are pilots and will always complain.