Ame M - can I not get E after M?

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mmartin1872
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Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?

Post by mmartin1872 »

I was under the impression that my m1 license gives me e and s on m1 category aircraft (if the amo gives me the permission to use my m1 license that way).

My s license gives me my s on m1 and m2 category aircraft.

An m2 would give me s and e on m2 category aircraft..

So right now I'm working in a shop that only works on m1 category planes. So I can use either of my licenses depending on the job. But if I was to go to air canada/west jet/etc I could use my s license but not my m1 license.
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ourkid2000
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Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?

Post by ourkid2000 »

NeverBlue wrote:
 There is a load of misinformation being posted here
We're actually only talking about one thing...what's the "load" of misinformation?...
I refuse to engage with you, but I will post my info from before:
As an M Student, I'm aiming for my M2 but as someone with extensive electronics experience I'm wondering how I'd go about getting my E license after? I could see that M2/E combo as being pretty useful.
Basically what I will say to this is pretty simple......You cannot do this. Well, not easily.

The E license, like the S license, requires specific training to be proven before being issued. That's why you rarely see the courses offered together (CONA in Gander, NL in the only school that offers such an animal.....E and M together). So when you go to BCIT, or Centenial, or Canadaore, etc you pick one or the other.

So lets take your case for example. When you graduate, you will have met the basic requirements for the AME-M (M1 or M2) license but will have no training credit towards the E license. Even if you had two logbooks filled out and worked as an E apprentice for many years as you mention, Transport would never recognize your previous M training towards the E license. Know what I'm saying here?

There are two routes that usually lead to the M2/E. It usually starts with folks who complete an E course in school who then go on to complete the AME-M ICS course at home in their spare time. If they already have an E licence and then go on to apprentice as an M for at least a year.....they can then write the Transport Canada exams and apply for the M. There is no ICS E or S course at this time.

The second, and more vague, route is the individual who possesses an M1/M2. Folks who say they can sign out anything because they have an M1/M2 are a little misguided but I understand where this notion comes from because CARS states this: "Individuals who hold both an M1 and M2 rating will not be issued any additional ratings (e.g. E or S ratings), as those privileges are already held within the scope of the combined M1/M2 rating privileges."

Technically these people, if they can prove that they have appropriate training through their AMO, can sign out specialized E or S work (which would normally require an E or S license). It's just not so cut and dry.

Make sense? I know it's confusing but this is how it works.
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NeverBlue
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Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?

Post by NeverBlue »

There are two routes that usually lead to the M2/E.
The second, and more vague, route is the individual who possesses an M1/M2.
you say there are 2 ways to get an M2/E....and then go on to explain the M1/M2 as the second way....makes no sense

Confusing is right... :shock: but don't engage with me...oh no...

You haven't really said anything different than what's already been said here.

Canadore offers the 3 year dual program now.
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ourkid2000
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Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?

Post by ourkid2000 »

*deleted*, not worth it. Op contact me for any info you like.
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NeverBlue
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Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?

Post by NeverBlue »

Transport would never recognize your previous M training towards the E license.


That is simply not true. There are a number of common topics between M & E basic training. Not all...but a lot.

Acceptable training and approved training have much different criteria.

Anyone can get an E license with 1000 hrs. acceptable training and 48 months OJT.

Thus the 3 year M and E basic training programs out there.
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ourkid2000
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Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?

Post by ourkid2000 »

Op, I forgot to mention......you may private message me if you prefer. Actually, I encourage you to do this rather than post on here. I have all the info you require.
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747-875
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Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?

Post by 747-875 »

Oh boy. As far as I understand CARs you can indeed have an M2 / E license. You can not have an M1 / M2 / E license.

I know three folks with an M2/E license, so they do exist and I have seen more than one. One thing they have all mentioned is that as far as they know if they go out and get an M1 they would loose the E on their license.

There are two ways to get an M2/E license that l know of. Method one: go and get an E license as per the usual school + time + tasks method, and then go and do the M school (either in person or via ICS) and then go fill a logbook of M tasks. Method two: Go and get an M license via the usual school + time + tasks method, and then once done take the avionics school (as far as I know the only ones being offered at this time are go to school in person style courses) and then go and do a book of E tasks. I know two people that used method one, and the third guy I've never did hear how he went about it.

If you have both M1 an M2 Transport will not issue an S or an E rating, as "Individuals who hold both an M1 and M2 rating will not be issued any additional ratings (e.g. E or S ratings), as those privileges are already held within the scope of the combined M1/M2 rating privileges." Be careful though, this point has traditionally been a text book example of "clear as mud", some say that means with a M1/M2 license your good to sign specialized S and E work, others say you can only sign out specialized S or E work if you can prove that you've had the applicable S or E basic training to go with your M license. I've never been able to get a clear answer on this despite searching through CARs on several occasions.

My personal opinion is if I had an M1/M2 license as it is now I think I technically could sign out specialized S and E work but I would most definitely shy away from signing anything of the sort as I don't feel I've had the appropriate training or experience for it. The E guys I know are one heck of a lot smarter than I am when it comes to E type work so I'll happily leave them to do their thing. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

As per Canadian Aviation Regulations Standard 566.03:
"(9) Additional ratings.

An AME may apply for additional ratings by meeting the requirements specified in 566.03. Credit will be granted for any requirements that were met in qualifying for the currently held ratings.

Information Note:

Individuals who hold both an M1 and M2 rating will not be issued any additional ratings (e.g. E or S ratings), as those privileges are already held within the scope of the combined M1/M2 rating privileges.

(10) Obsolete ratings.

AMEs who held ratings under the preceding licence system, that have no direct equivalents, or for which no designators have been established in the new system, will have the ratings entered on their licence in plain text. Examples of this include Balloons, Propellers, and Dynamic Components."
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Bowhunterfynn
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Re: Ame M - can I not get E after M?

Post by Bowhunterfynn »

Can you get your M1, E and S rating. I knwo you would have to take all three training courses but is there anything stopping you from getting all 3?
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