Negotiations

[rudder]

Maybe this is all intentional? Does management realize the revolving door with all the training costs more than giving a proper raise? Are they that blind?

Not so much a revolving door as an exit sign. Inability to attract qualified candidates with uncompetitive pay scales will not keep up with attrition, which will now increase due to …… uncompetitive pay scales.

A refusal to accept that the industry has changed will only result in higher turnover rates. And competition for pilot labour has not eased.

Jazz could possibly be down to 90 airframes by YE2023, and 80 by YE2024. CPA guarantees are meaningless if pilot staffing prevents proper hull utilization rates required to meet monthly/annual block hour obligations.

Something has to give here. And apparently it isn’t recalibrated pilot pay. So it will probably be a CPA recalibration.

[canadian_aviator_4]

Maybe this is all intentional? Does management realize the revolving door with all the training costs more than giving a proper raise? Are they that blind?

Not so much a revolving door as an exit sign. Inability to attract qualified candidates with uncompetitive pay scales will not keep up with attrition, which will now increase due to …… uncompetitive pay scales.

A refusal to accept that the industry has changed will only result in higher turnover rates. And competition for pilot labour has not eased.

Jazz could possibly be down to 90 airframes by YE2023, and 80 by YE2024. CPA guarantees are meaningless if pilot staffing prevents proper hull utilization rates required to meet monthly/annual block hour obligations.

Something has to give here. And apparently it isn’t recalibrated pilot pay. So it will probably be a CPA recalibration.

Nothing is guaranteed at jazz. Just look at their respect for the ‘guaranteed’ %60 flow. How can you trust them to follow anything else in their contract.

[Malfunction]

Maybe this is all intentional? Does management realize the revolving door with all the training costs more than giving a proper raise? Are they that blind?

Not so much a revolving door as an exit sign. Inability to attract qualified candidates with uncompetitive pay scales will not keep up with attrition, which will now increase due to …… uncompetitive pay scales.

A refusal to accept that the industry has changed will only result in higher turnover rates. And competition for pilot labour has not eased.

Jazz could possibly be down to 90 airframes by YE2023, and 80 by YE2024. CPA guarantees are meaningless if pilot staffing prevents proper hull utilization rates required to meet monthly/annual block hour obligations.

Something has to give here. And apparently it isn’t recalibrated pilot pay. So it will probably be a CPA recalibration.

Nothing is guaranteed at jazz. Just look at their respect for the ‘guaranteed’ %60 flow. How can you trust them to follow anything else in their contract.
This

[truedude]

Maybe this is all intentional? Does management realize the revolving door with all the training costs more than giving a proper raise? Are they that blind?

Not so much a revolving door as an exit sign. Inability to attract qualified candidates with uncompetitive pay scales will not keep up with attrition, which will now increase due to …… uncompetitive pay scales.

A refusal to accept that the industry has changed will only result in higher turnover rates. And competition for pilot labour has not eased.

Jazz could possibly be down to 90 airframes by YE2023, and 80 by YE2024. CPA guarantees are meaningless if pilot staffing prevents proper hull utilization rates required to meet monthly/annual block hour obligations.

Something has to give here. And apparently it isn’t recalibrated pilot pay. So it will probably be a CPA recalibration.

They can shrink us to nothing, because at this rate that is where we will be soon. I suspect the only reason people are coming here at all at the moment is because they think no company can possibly be this stupid and surly raises are on the horizon. Once this memo comes out, it should dispell any belief we will see a raise anytime soon.

If something doesn't change soon, I would say Jazz's days are numbered. We will be lucky to see the end of the decade.

[Malfunction]

Is jazz the lowest payed 705 operator in canada now?

[CaptDukeNukem]

Is jazz the lowest payed 705 operator in canada now?

I guess we will find out within a week. But I honestly can’t think of any that fit the bill.

Especially for Jet aircraft.

[cdnavater]

Is jazz the lowest payed 705 operator in canada now?

I guess we will find out within a week. But I honestly can’t think of any that fit the bill.

Especially for Jet aircraft.

What do jets have to with it, you know flying a cucumber is the same job as flying an RJ or Ejet!
This is where you have strayed, you think somehow because you’re flying a jet you’re a better pilot, plenty of 20,000 hour plus pilots flying a Q who could probably fly circles around you. You let Porter make you believe you are worth more because you are an all mighty E2 pilot, fact is you are only paid more because you have more seats and they have no choice, they couldn’t fill the spots without it!

[cdnavater]

Maybe this is all intentional? Does management realize the revolving door with all the training costs more than giving a proper raise? Are they that blind?

Not so much a revolving door as an exit sign. Inability to attract qualified candidates with uncompetitive pay scales will not keep up with attrition, which will now increase due to …… uncompetitive pay scales.

A refusal to accept that the industry has changed will only result in higher turnover rates. And competition for pilot labour has not eased.

Jazz could possibly be down to 90 airframes by YE2023, and 80 by YE2024. CPA guarantees are meaningless if pilot staffing prevents proper hull utilization rates required to meet monthly/annual block hour obligations.

Something has to give here. And apparently it isn’t recalibrated pilot pay. So it will probably be a CPA recalibration.

They can shrink us to nothing, because at this rate that is where we will be soon. I suspect the only reason people are coming here at all at the moment is because they think no company can possibly be this stupid and surly raises are on the horizon. Once this memo comes out, it should dispell any belief we will see a raise anytime soon.

If something doesn't change soon, I would say Jazz's days are numbered. We will be lucky to see the end of the decade.

To be clear, I have no idea how this will play out but I believe we will be 90-100 this year and possibly the 80 fin a year earlier, like rudder as said.
You’re are looking at it as though the pilots who want to go to AC could shut this mother down, those pilots are about half or slightly less than half of the current roster. I haven’t looked but I know that most pilots 7-800 and up to 1 are not leaving except for retirement, the rest are hoping to go so that will be a revolving door. However a lot of the bottom 500 are not eligible for flow right now so will be building time here in hope of a flow, if that becomes obviously not working, some will leave.
How many recent hire actually have an ATPL who can flow or go.
So, the question is could Jazz staff 90-100 airframes with the top 700 as mostly Captains and keep the right seat warm with a revolving door, my analysis says yes.
Some hires will stick around either due to PFO from AC or the other options also giving a PFO, with 30-40 retirements per year that is really all that they need to replace per year for Captain spots with the revolving door for the FO spots.
This will not shut down Jazz, it will simply shrink us to the 2025 fleet sooner than later!

[truedude]

Not so much a revolving door as an exit sign. Inability to attract qualified candidates with uncompetitive pay scales will not keep up with attrition, which will now increase due to …… uncompetitive pay scales.

A refusal to accept that the industry has changed will only result in higher turnover rates. And competition for pilot labour has not eased.

Jazz could possibly be down to 90 airframes by YE2023, and 80 by YE2024. CPA guarantees are meaningless if pilot staffing prevents proper hull utilization rates required to meet monthly/annual block hour obligations.

Something has to give here. And apparently it isn’t recalibrated pilot pay. So it will probably be a CPA recalibration.

They can shrink us to nothing, because at this rate that is where we will be soon. I suspect the only reason people are coming here at all at the moment is because they think no company can possibly be this stupid and surly raises are on the horizon. Once this memo comes out, it should dispell any belief we will see a raise anytime soon.

If something doesn't change soon, I would say Jazz's days are numbered. We will be lucky to see the end of the decade.

To be clear, I have no idea how this will play out but I believe we will be 90-100 this year and possibly the 80 fin a year earlier, like rudder as said.
You’re are looking at it as though the pilots who want to go to AC could shut this mother down, those pilots are about half or slightly less than half of the current roster. I haven’t looked but I know that most pilots 7-800 and up to 1 are not leaving except for retirement, the rest are hoping to go so that will be a revolving door. However a lot of the bottom 500 are not eligible for flow right now so will be building time here in hope of a flow, if that becomes obviously not working, some will leave.
How many recent hire actually have an ATPL who can flow or go.
So, the question is could Jazz staff 90-100 airframes with the top 700 as mostly Captains and keep the right seat warm with a revolving door, my analysis says yes.
Some hires will stick around either due to PFO from AC or the other options also giving a PFO, with 30-40 retirements per year that is really all that they need to replace per year for Captain spots with the revolving door for the FO spots.
This will not shut down Jazz, it will simply shrink us to the 2025 fleet sooner than later!

I think you are being overly optimistic at who will stay if the company isn't prepared to move on pay. I never thought I would leave, and I am updating my resume and log book as we speak. I don't want to work for a company that is content to shrink over pay appropriate wages. It is demoralizing, and I have far too long in my career left to work for a company that clear does not give a s@%t. And if AC is your goal, it is clearly in your best interest to work somewhere else. Anywhere else. Not to mention, have you seen what happens to companies when moral goes through the floor. Book offs will go through the roof. And why wouldn't they? How can a company expect its employees to give a damn, when the company clearly doesn't?

Jazz will shrink. And then shrink some more. And then just disappear, because it will become such a dysfunctional company, it will no longer be economical for AC to keep doing business with us. One day I look forward to meeting the people involved in this stupidity, because I have no doubt it will be long remembered in Canadian aviation history. Right up there with AC ignoring Westjet, and then filing for bankruptcy a few years later.

[cdnavater]

They can shrink us to nothing, because at this rate that is where we will be soon. I suspect the only reason people are coming here at all at the moment is because they think no company can possibly be this stupid and surly raises are on the horizon. Once this memo comes out, it should dispell any belief we will see a raise anytime soon.

If something doesn't change soon, I would say Jazz's days are numbered. We will be lucky to see the end of the decade.

To be clear, I have no idea how this will play out but I believe we will be 90-100 this year and possibly the 80 fin a year earlier, like rudder as said.
You’re are looking at it as though the pilots who want to go to AC could shut this mother down, those pilots are about half or slightly less than half of the current roster. I haven’t looked but I know that most pilots 7-800 and up to 1 are not leaving except for retirement, the rest are hoping to go so that will be a revolving door. However a lot of the bottom 500 are not eligible for flow right now so will be building time here in hope of a flow, if that becomes obviously not working, some will leave.
How many recent hire actually have an ATPL who can flow or go.
So, the question is could Jazz staff 90-100 airframes with the top 700 as mostly Captains and keep the right seat warm with a revolving door, my analysis says yes.
Some hires will stick around either due to PFO from AC or the other options also giving a PFO, with 30-40 retirements per year that is really all that they need to replace per year for Captain spots with the revolving door for the FO spots.
This will not shut down Jazz, it will simply shrink us to the 2025 fleet sooner than later!

I think you are being overly optimistic at who will stay if the company isn't prepared to move on pay. I never thought I would leave, and I am updating my resume and log book as we speak. I don't want to work for a company that is content to shrink over pay appropriate wages. It is demoralizing, and I have far too long in my career left to work for a company that clear does not give a s@%t. And if AC is your goal, it is clearly in your best interest to work somewhere else. Anywhere else. Not to mention, have you seen what happens to companies when moral goes through the floor. Book offs will go through the roof. And why wouldn't they? How can a company expect its employees to give a damn, when the company clearly doesn't?

Jazz will shrink. And then shrink some more. And then just disappear, because it will become such a dysfunctional company, it will no longer be economical for AC to keep doing business with us. One day I look forward to meeting the people involved in this stupidity, because I have no doubt it will be long remembered in Canadian aviation history. Right up there with AC ignoring Westjet, and then filing for bankruptcy a few years later.

You won’t get much of an argument out of me on your post, just to say current seniority list 597 was hired in 2015 which means they have a DB pension to give up if they leave. After that, there are a 150 or so hired in 2016-2017, I would guess most of those are older and thinking going elsewhere is riskier than stay, which leads me to believe with 700 pilots we could staff the left seat for 80 plus fins and staff the right seat with the constant turnover.
I hope it turns out better but it’s looking grim these days!

[canadian_aviator_4]

I am curious to see what is the long term strategy: Jazz Management is blatantly stupid and prefers reduced revenue or there is a long term play here involving a strategy by Air Canada to increase their fleet to replace alot of regional flying. A way to combat staffing issues, by flying larger aircraft less frequently.

[cdnavater]

I am curious to see what is the long term strategy: Jazz Management is blatantly stupid and prefers reduced revenue or there is a long term play here involving a strategy by Air Canada to increase their fleet to replace alot of regional flying. A way to combat staffing issues, by flying larger aircraft less frequently.

Short answer, yes!
Jazz has reduced the CPA revenue mark up so much over the years that it’s not making Chorus a ton of money, I willing to bet most of the income from Jazz is in the form of leasing which is Horus revenue not Jazz.
I’m also willing to bet at 80-90 fins they will be 100% owned by Chrous and leased to Jazz.

[rudder]

You won’t get much of an argument out of me on your post, just to say current seniority list 597 was hired in 2015 which means they have a DB pension to give up if they leave. After that, there are a 150 or so hired in 2016-2017, I would guess most of those are older and thinking going elsewhere is riskier than stay, which leads me to believe with 700 pilots we could staff the left seat for 80 plus fins and staff the right seat with the constant turnover.
I hope it turns out better but it’s looking grim these days!

Junior DB Pilot around #550. However, there are former GGN and SKV pilots also in that top 550 that are NOT DB pilots.

Further, probably a minimum of 150 of the top 550 pilots are inactive. They are either on med leave, or management.

So, of the top 550 you might have 350-400 that are either active line pilots or in the Training Dept.

There are DB pilots looking at other options as well. There are some fairly lucrative DEC opportunities out there. Nobody wants to be the last one left on the ship.

[cdnavater]

You won’t get much of an argument out of me on your post, just to say current seniority list 597 was hired in 2015 which means they have a DB pension to give up if they leave. After that, there are a 150 or so hired in 2016-2017, I would guess most of those are older and thinking going elsewhere is riskier than stay, which leads me to believe with 700 pilots we could staff the left seat for 80 plus fins and staff the right seat with the constant turnover.
I hope it turns out better but it’s looking grim these days!

Junior DB Pilot around #550. However, there are former GGN and SKV pilots also in that top 550 that are NOT DB pilots.

Further, probably a minimum of 150 of the top 550 pilots are inactive. They are either on med leave, or management.

So, of the top 550 you might have 350-400 that are either active line pilots or in the Training Dept.

There are DB pilots looking at other options as well. There are some fairly lucrative DEC opportunities out there. Nobody wants to be the last one left on the ship.

True enough, I’ll turn out the light I guess!

[link821]

You won’t get much of an argument out of me on your post, just to say current seniority list 597 was hired in 2015 which means they have a DB pension to give up if they leave. After that, there are a 150 or so hired in 2016-2017, I would guess most of those are older and thinking going elsewhere is riskier than stay, which leads me to believe with 700 pilots we could staff the left seat for 80 plus fins and staff the right seat with the constant turnover.
I hope it turns out better but it’s looking grim these days!

Junior DB Pilot around #550. However, there are former GGN and SKV pilots also in that top 550 that are NOT DB pilots.

Further, probably a minimum of 150 of the top 550 pilots are inactive. They are either on med leave, or management.

So, of the top 550 you might have 350-400 that are either active line pilots or in the Training Dept.

There are DB pilots looking at other options as well. There are some fairly lucrative DEC opportunities out there. Nobody wants to be the last one left on the ship.

True enough, I’ll turn out the light I guess!

F**k it, leave em on.

[Malfunction]

Fellow Pilots,

 

Last fall, management was seeking targeted assistance related to the number of Pilots they needed to train through Section 5 relief, as well as the ability to increase their training capacity. In a December 21 negotiations update, we advised that their offer did not contain enough value to reach an agreement. Since that time, in addition to those requests, Jazz has begun to experience acute problems with retention and the filling of captain vacancies. 

 

In my March 29 message, I mentioned we had been meeting with management and had further meetings planned. Unfortunately, management cancelled those subsequent meetings, as they do not have a response to our latest proposal. The discussions have not ended per se; however, we have no further meetings planned. Your MEC has been consistent; we will not make an agreement that does not include a meaningful compensation increase for all Pilots.

 

In my view, not only do wages need to increase at Jazz, but higher Pilot pay is necessary throughout Canada to keep our industry viable for the long term. There is no quick fix—not only does compensation need to be addressed for those flying today, but equally as important, compensation needs to be enough to attract people into the profession for growth and sustainability. Decades of underpaying Pilots has created a situation that airlines will now need to address.

 

The gap in pay versus our colleagues south-of-the-border doing the same work, on the same aircraft, carrying the same passengers, has now become simply too large. Unfortunately, while we wait for a response, the underlying labour problems deepen. Management is weighing the cost of our proposal against the erosion and viability of the network and market share that we deliver. Further, Air Canada and Jazz will need to decide if they want to lead our industry. If so, it needs to be enough to attract and retain the experience required to achieve their short and long-term goals, regardless of what the broader Canadian industry is able or willing to do. 

 

As an aside, the wage increases south-of-the-border all started in the regional system. Although wage increases are now occurring throughout the U.S. airline industry, it is noteworthy how their regional airlines have somewhat succeeded in closing the pay discrepancy between regional and mainline.

 

Without positive changes to our Collective Agreement, you can expect schedule quality to continue to deteriorate as rosters shrink from attrition. This is compounded by the inability to replace the Pilots who have left. As well, anyone waiting for employment at Air Canada should expect flow rates to continue to be dictated by Air Canada as they prioritize their commercial interest over following existing commitments. We also expect that the ability to attract any Pilot will become a greater challenge for Jazz, as increasingly more viable options are becoming available—arguably, many that now provide a better career path. 

 

The MEC has fielded many questions from members looking for information and assistance to guide their career choices. Many are grasping for reasons to stay but feel driven to pursue other opportunities. For many reasons, the MEC cannot offer individual career advice; each Pilot must make their own individual career and family decisions.

 

Since our previous member survey last September, the industry has substantially evolved. As well, hiring and attrition have changed our demographics. Therefore, the MEC plans to re-survey some specific questions. Please watch for this to be published shortly.  

 

In closing, we will advise you if anything changes with respect to the status of negotiations.

 

Thank you for your time and support.

 

In solidarity,

 

Claude

Women and children first into the life rafts folks.. the ship is sinking

[GIVCE!]

Good luck Jazz. Staffing and training gonna take a huge hit this summer. No overtime for this fella…and no ‘favours’ to help out the company. Obviously there is a much grander plan in place…

[rudder]

Fellow Pilots,

 

Last fall, management was seeking targeted assistance related to the number of Pilots they needed to train through Section 5 relief, as well as the ability to increase their training capacity. In a December 21 negotiations update, we advised that their offer did not contain enough value to reach an agreement. Since that time, in addition to those requests, Jazz has begun to experience acute problems with retention and the filling of captain vacancies. 

 

In my March 29 message, I mentioned we had been meeting with management and had further meetings planned. Unfortunately, management cancelled those subsequent meetings, as they do not have a response to our latest proposal. The discussions have not ended per se; however, we have no further meetings planned. Your MEC has been consistent; we will not make an agreement that does not include a meaningful compensation increase for all Pilots.

 

In my view, not only do wages need to increase at Jazz, but higher Pilot pay is necessary throughout Canada to keep our industry viable for the long term. There is no quick fix—not only does compensation need to be addressed for those flying today, but equally as important, compensation needs to be enough to attract people into the profession for growth and sustainability. Decades of underpaying Pilots has created a situation that airlines will now need to address.

 

The gap in pay versus our colleagues south-of-the-border doing the same work, on the same aircraft, carrying the same passengers, has now become simply too large. Unfortunately, while we wait for a response, the underlying labour problems deepen. Management is weighing the cost of our proposal against the erosion and viability of the network and market share that we deliver. Further, Air Canada and Jazz will need to decide if they want to lead our industry. If so, it needs to be enough to attract and retain the experience required to achieve their short and long-term goals, regardless of what the broader Canadian industry is able or willing to do. 

 

As an aside, the wage increases south-of-the-border all started in the regional system. Although wage increases are now occurring throughout the U.S. airline industry, it is noteworthy how their regional airlines have somewhat succeeded in closing the pay discrepancy between regional and mainline.

 

Without positive changes to our Collective Agreement, you can expect schedule quality to continue to deteriorate as rosters shrink from attrition. This is compounded by the inability to replace the Pilots who have left. As well, anyone waiting for employment at Air Canada should expect flow rates to continue to be dictated by Air Canada as they prioritize their commercial interest over following existing commitments. We also expect that the ability to attract any Pilot will become a greater challenge for Jazz, as increasingly more viable options are becoming available—arguably, many that now provide a better career path. 

 

The MEC has fielded many questions from members looking for information and assistance to guide their career choices. Many are grasping for reasons to stay but feel driven to pursue other opportunities. For many reasons, the MEC cannot offer individual career advice; each Pilot must make their own individual career and family decisions.

 

Since our previous member survey last September, the industry has substantially evolved. As well, hiring and attrition have changed our demographics. Therefore, the MEC plans to re-survey some specific questions. Please watch for this to be published shortly.  

 

In closing, we will advise you if anything changes with respect to the status of negotiations.

 

Thank you for your time and support.

 

In solidarity,

 

Claude

Women and children first into the life rafts folks.. the ship is sinking

This bulletin is like a Seinfeld episode - it is about nothing.

Bulletins are to provide information. There is no information contained therein. Opinion? Yes. Information? No.

Enough false hope. What you see is what you get. Current CBA until 2035. Plan accordingly.

[PostmasterGeneral]

Rudder, I agree that memo was a bit of a nothing burger. But at least it’s better than radio silence. Unfortunately, the pilots are handcuffed by that contract until 2035, so unless there are massive retention issues, there’s no reason for Jazz to revisit wages.

It would appear they’re not at this point yet, but Jesus, what more would it take? Actually parking airplanes?

[canadian_aviator_4]

With messages like the one from the union surrounded by gains at many airlines in Canada, the moral can’t really get much lower. However, I’m sure I will be wrong about this too.

[rudder]

Rudder, I agree that memo was a bit of a nothing burger. But at least it’s better than radio silence. Unfortunately, the pilots are handcuffed by that contract until 2035, so unless there are massive retention issues, there’s no reason for Jazz to revisit wages.

It would appear they’re not at this point yet, but Jesus, what more would it take? Actually parking airplanes?

It will be interesting to see if CHR offers any guidance about Jazz block hours operated vs its CPA obligation during the Q1 2023 earnings call. It will also be interesting to see if CHR offers any going forward guidance on this same topic.

A parked airplane is an obvious sign of reduced flying levels. Under-utilized airframes is a less obvious sign.

[flyinhigh]

When this 17 year agreement was signed, there were literally everyone in the industry that said WTF are you doing. Each and everyone as Jazz defended this amazing deal.

Kinda funny we sit he today able to say, meah to bad. Only down side is this agreement pulls the rest of the industry down for 12 more years. Who could have saw that coming

[cdnavater]

When this 17 year agreement was signed, there were literally everyone in the industry that said WTF are you doing. Each and everyone as Jazz defended this amazing deal.

Kinda funny we sit he today able to say, meah to bad. Only down side is this agreement pulls the rest of the industry down for 12 more years. Who could have saw that coming

Thing is, back when the contract was originally signed it was a ten year deal. Before this we were the regional with the best industry pay and contract but that was what drove AC to crush our spirits.
We were the ones attempting to lift everyone up, not really just our own pay but since there was a nice supply of pilots willing to do it for less, SR and GGN chipped away at our work until we had no choice.
You can beak off all you want but the reality is, if we didn’t sign and then extend the contract right now it would be SR and GGN you’re pointing your fingers at and Jazz would be trucking along just fine.
The other thing is, we won’t be dragging anyone down, the pilots coming to Jazz right now are not ATPL rated for the most part so we are scraping the bottom of the barrel, all the other airlines in need of pilots are competing for the quick upgrade or DEC pilots and that will lift the pay.
The other other thing, if pilots stopped applying, it would either have to change or the plan to shrink would be obvious at that point but pilots are still showing up.
I did hear a story recently about a new hire who quit during CIT, day two I believe.
The above memo is not nothing, it tells a story, the company approached the MEC with urgency and then cancelled the meeting, the says something has changed, what that is, who knows.
I think it’s a deal in the works for AC to take over the Jazz division, I know I know, I’ve mentioned this before but seriously I’m sure AC caught wind of Jazz approaching us and then would have stepped in to say, we want Jazz but we don’t want to inherit them with a better contract than what they have now, just food for thought.

[rudder]

When this 17 year agreement was signed, there were literally everyone in the industry that said WTF are you doing. Each and everyone as Jazz defended this amazing deal.

Kinda funny we sit he today able to say, meah to bad. Only down side is this agreement pulls the rest of the industry down for 12 more years. Who could have saw that coming

Thing is, back when the contract was originally signed it was a ten year deal. Before this we were the regional with the best industry pay and contract but that was what drove AC to crush our spirits.
We were the ones attempting to lift everyone up, not really just our own pay but since there was a nice supply of pilots willing to do it for less, SR and GGN chipped away at our work until we had no choice.
You can beak off all you want but the reality is, if we didn’t sign and then extend the contract right now it would be SR and GGN you’re pointing your fingers at and Jazz would be trucking along just fine.
The other thing is, we won’t be dragging anyone down, the pilots coming to Jazz right now are not ATPL rated for the most part so we are scraping the bottom of the barrel, all the other airlines in need of pilots are competing for the quick upgrade or DEC pilots and that will lift the pay.
The other other thing, if pilots stopped applying, it would either have to change or the plan to shrink would be obvious at that point but pilots are still showing up.
I did hear a story recently about a new hire who quit during CIT, day two I believe.
The above memo is not nothing, it tells a story, the company approached the MEC with urgency and then cancelled the meeting, the says something has changed, what that is, who knows.
I think it’s a deal in the works for AC to take over the Jazz division, I know I know, I’ve mentioned this before but seriously I’m sure AC caught wind of Jazz approaching us and then would have stepped in to say, we want Jazz but we don’t want to inherit them with a better contract than what they have now, just food for thought.

The scenario you describe is unlikely.

I do not doubt that CHR selling Jazz to AC is not a possibility. The CPA would be amended to a lease agreement only. However, I don’t think there is quite as much strategy as you suggest.

There is no doubt that AC would prefer to avoid the optics of a Jazz pay recalibration just as its own pilots change representation and open bargaining. I see it as apples and oranges given the Jazz mission and the challenge in attracting and retaining even short term pilots for the Express operation. But likely AC sees it as a potential comparison point for its own pilot wage cost improvements. Regardless, there are already rumours floating around on the AC side of impending meaningful increases in pay rates.

Jazz is stuck in a conundrum of its own making. It made demands and signed commitments (some involving third parties) that were likely unsustainable if the market changed. Guess what - the market changed.

Jazz seems to prefer the position of selective enhancements (training pilots, new hires, etc). The JAZ MEC is holding out for improvements for all (an appropriate strategy). There can be a negotiation on details, but not on the broader concept that a recalibration is necessary that will affect all Jazz pilots.

So the parties now sit in a dystopia where one bargaining table is perhaps not separated from another, and one employer is perhaps not separated from another. This is the familiar story of the last 4 decades at AC and its regional operations.

Absence of meaningful and sincere interest based multilateral discussions will mean further pain for the system.

Some think there is time to let things just play out. Others are moving on from the dysfunction and unpredictable work environment looking for stability and an employer that shows in a measurable fashion how it values its pilot employees. These are all individual choices but in aggregate can be quite impactful.

Maybe there is some master plan out there. I don’t think so. This is just act-react.

The competition seem to be getting their ducks in a row. AC seems to have its mainline ducks in a row. I would suggest that anybody whose ducks are not in a row is going to have a tough time of it.

[cdnavater]

I suppose you’re likely correct, AC in their own negotiations would not want or need a meaningful increase at Jazz to add to the comparison.
I reread the memo, I misunderstood what was said, it appears they already had some meetings but the company cancelled further planned meetings, still though it seems as though something changed or what the union is asking for is just simply too much. Without context or more information it is impossible to know and simply a guessing game.
This being said, we are still training new hire pilots at full capacity for the most part, as mentioned some have quit after accepting the job, don’t blame them really, there are better options out there.
The only thing I know for certain without guessing, time will reveal all, at some point we will all know what the future holds, it’ll just be past tense.
At this point, I’m ok with the current contract to retirement, just hoping it gets me there! Way too old to start over, and all current DEC spots are pretty much a break even for me given the loss of pension with a slightly higher pay scale(I’m at the top)