New hire bids

[C-GGGQ]

Can some of you please explain WHY you are applying to Jazz? I really don’t understand it. Sinking ship with many other places to go that pay more money. And please, PLEASE don’t say for the flow.

I applied, along with many other places. I am hesitant to just turn down the interview/ sim eval even though Jazz is sadly at the bottom of the list these days. Back of my mind is “what if every other 705 turns you down” i have a few 705 DEC possibilities, a pc12 that just pays better than my current gig, and a 705 fo spot that would let me go back home as my top choice. Realistically with Jazz giving me a sim date in June, these other places have proposed starting dates prior to that, but until I sign on the dotted line I’ll keep everything in play.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Can some of you please explain WHY you are applying to Jazz? I really don’t understand it. Sinking ship with many other places to go that pay more money. And please, PLEASE don’t say for the flow.

For the flow to AC.

What flow? It’s a trickle…. At best

[capt_Z]

Can some of you please explain WHY you are applying to Jazz? I really don’t understand it. Sinking ship with many other places to go that pay more money. And please, PLEASE don’t say for the flow.

For the flow to AC.

What flow? It’s a trickle…. At best

Flow from Jazz to AC directly.

[C-GGGQ]

For the flow to AC.

What flow? It’s a trickle…. At best

Flow from Jazz to AC directly.

They aren’t honouring flow. If you want AC, any other airline is quicker these days.

[CaptDukeNukem]

For the flow to AC.

What flow? It’s a trickle…. At best

Flow from Jazz to AC directly.

Yes. I’m aware of what “the flow” is. I’m telling you it’s not happening at the “rate” it’s supposed to be. So I’m calling it a trickle. If getting to AC is your goal, you may be better off at any other 705 operator.

[capt_Z]

What flow? It’s a trickle…. At best

Flow from Jazz to AC directly.

They aren’t honouring flow. If you want AC, any other airline is quicker these days.

But it's now that they are not honouring but after few years there will be direct flow. Right?

[capt_Z]

What flow? It’s a trickle…. At best

Flow from Jazz to AC directly.

Yes. I’m aware of what “the flow” is. I’m telling you it’s not happening at the “rate” it’s supposed to be. So I’m calling it a trickle. If getting to AC is your goal, you may be better off at any other 705 operator.

If you work at JAZZ for 2 years minimum you directly get into AC.

[canadian_aviator_4]

Flow from Jazz to AC directly.

Yes. I’m aware of what “the flow” is. I’m telling you it’s not happening at the “rate” it’s supposed to be. So I’m calling it a trickle. If getting to AC is your goal, you may be better off at any other 705 operator.

If you work at JAZZ for 2 years minimum you directly get into AC.

Eventually. Far from 2 years. Closer to 4 years at this moment.

[PostmasterGeneral]

Flow from Jazz to AC directly.

Yes. I’m aware of what “the flow” is. I’m telling you it’s not happening at the “rate” it’s supposed to be. So I’m calling it a trickle. If getting to AC is your goal, you may be better off at any other 705 operator.

If you work at JAZZ for 2 years minimum you directly get into AC.

You don’t get directly into AC, you still need to pass an interview, medical, etc. It’s not a whole lot different from being off the street.

[Turboprops]

If you work at JAZZ for 2 years minimum you directly get into AC.

You sir are very misinformed… that is very far from the truth

[SmokinJoe]

Flow from Jazz to AC directly.

Yes. I’m aware of what “the flow” is. I’m telling you it’s not happening at the “rate” it’s supposed to be. So I’m calling it a trickle. If getting to AC is your goal, you may be better off at any other 705 operator.

If you work at JAZZ for 2 years minimum you directly get into AC.

I hope you’re joking and don’t honestly believe this. The “flow” isn’t being honored and never will be. The current problem is that AC is so far behind it that “pilots off the street” are getting to AC much faster than pilots at Jazz. It’s your career, do as you wish but just make an informed decision.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Flow from Jazz to AC directly.

Yes. I’m aware of what “the flow” is. I’m telling you it’s not happening at the “rate” it’s supposed to be. So I’m calling it a trickle. If getting to AC is your goal, you may be better off at any other 705 operator.

If you work at JAZZ for 2 years minimum you directly get into AC.

Lol. As Sean Connery once said as James Bond:
“You must be joking”

[Malfunction]

Can u please stop calling it flow... its a opportunity for a interview... that's it

[cdnavater]

Can u please stop calling it flow... its a opportunity for a interview... that's it

Well, yes and no, it is supposed to be a flow where 60% of new hires are from Jazz and a maximum of 10% turn down rate, 9 in 10 who interviewed were supposed to be offered a spot.
That’s as close to flow as you can get in the AC world except who knew it wasn’t worth the paper it was printed on, seemingly unenforceable!
I feel like with the resources ALPA has, this should have been foreseeable and that is the part that pisses me off, we were sold a bill of goods, and this had the affect of suppressing wages in addition to an extremely long contract that might not have passed otherwise.
To my knowledge though, the first pml 1.0 version was honoured so, there’s that I guess.

[flying4dollars]

What flow? It’s a trickle…. At best

Flow from Jazz to AC directly.

Yes. I’m aware of what “the flow” is. I’m telling you it’s not happening at the “rate” it’s supposed to be. So I’m calling it a trickle. If getting to AC is your goal, you may be better off at any other 705 operator.

All the recent new hire classes have been 40-60% Jazz. More than a slow trickle I'd say

[CaptDukeNukem]

Flow from Jazz to AC directly.

Yes. I’m aware of what “the flow” is. I’m telling you it’s not happening at the “rate” it’s supposed to be. So I’m calling it a trickle. If getting to AC is your goal, you may be better off at any other 705 operator.

All the recent new hire classes have been 40-60% Jazz. More than a slow trickle I'd say

So you’re saying that roughly 50% is OTS. And someone who is starting their career can choose between non jazz or jazz to get to AC. Noted

[flying4dollars]

Yes. I’m aware of what “the flow” is. I’m telling you it’s not happening at the “rate” it’s supposed to be. So I’m calling it a trickle. If getting to AC is your goal, you may be better off at any other 705 operator.

All the recent new hire classes have been 40-60% Jazz. More than a slow trickle I'd say

So you’re saying that roughly 50% is OTS. And someone who is starting their career can choose between non jazz or jazz to get to AC. Noted

Yes, that's how math works What I'm saying is the Jazz roster represents more than a slow trickle as you stated.

Just so there's no misinformation

[truedude]

All the recent new hire classes have been 40-60% Jazz. More than a slow trickle I'd say

So you’re saying that roughly 50% is OTS. And someone who is starting their career can choose between non jazz or jazz to get to AC. Noted

Yes, that's how math works What I'm saying is the Jazz roster represents more than a slow trickle as you stated.

Just so there's no misinformation

Yet we have been told they are going to slow it down to half of wht they were taking, which is way less than the required. And there is a good chance they will stop again in the summer. In other words, AC will do whatever they want whenever they want, and what ever they feel is in the best interest, regardless of any contract.

Just so there is no misinformation.

[CaptDukeNukem]

All the recent new hire classes have been 40-60% Jazz. More than a slow trickle I'd say

So you’re saying that roughly 50% is OTS. And someone who is starting their career can choose between non jazz or jazz to get to AC. Noted

Yes, that's how math works What I'm saying is the Jazz roster represents more than a slow trickle as you stated.

Just so there's no misinformation

You’re right lol

Let’s meet in the middle and call it a controlled leak to prevent pipe bursts.

[flying4dollars]

So you’re saying that roughly 50% is OTS. And someone who is starting their career can choose between non jazz or jazz to get to AC. Noted

Yes, that's how math works What I'm saying is the Jazz roster represents more than a slow trickle as you stated.

Just so there's no misinformation

You’re right lol

Let’s meet in the middle and call it a controlled leak to prevent pipe bursts.

Lol touche

[flying4dollars]

So you’re saying that roughly 50% is OTS. And someone who is starting their career can choose between non jazz or jazz to get to AC. Noted

Yes, that's how math works What I'm saying is the Jazz roster represents more than a slow trickle as you stated.

Just so there's no misinformation

Yet we have been told they are going to slow it down to half of wht they were taking, which is way less than the required. And there is a good chance they will stop again in the summer. In other words, AC will do whatever they want whenever they want, and what ever they feel is in the best interest, regardless of any contract.

Just so there is no misinformation.

Whatever you've been told or whatever AC will or won't do is out of my control. All I'm doing is stating a fact, not a rumor. Looking at the new hire bios, at least half of every class this year are coming from Jazz.

[SmokinJoe]

For the PMA, AC is behind hiring, for 2022 what 300 pilots from Jazz? For 2023 they are supposed to add those 300 pilots to this years “quota”. AC will not hit those numbers. AC will reduce hiring from Jazz this summer which will put them further behind.
You need to stay at Jazz for 2 years before you “qualify”. If you go elsewhere, you are not bound by the two years.
AC always slows hiring in the summer and holidays (Christmas) due to training pilot availability/vacation/busy flying.
AC stopped hiring from Jazz on a whim for what 2-3 months last year, even though they were behind on their “quota”, but kept on hiring from other companies.

So I really don’t understand why, if your goal is AC, you would come to Jazz and handicap yourself by being here. They will start and stop hiring from Jazz to protect their own operation and the pilots who hoped for a quick road to AC will sit and suffer while pilots at other airlines keep getting hired at AC.

[canadian_aviator_4]

For the PMA, AC is behind hiring, for 2022 what 300 pilots from Jazz? For 2023 they are supposed to add those 300 pilots to this years “quota”. AC will not hit those numbers. AC will reduce hiring from Jazz this summer which will put them further behind.
You need to stay at Jazz for 2 years before you “qualify”. If you go elsewhere, you are not bound by the two years.
AC always slows hiring in the summer and holidays (Christmas) due to training pilot availability/vacation/busy flying.
AC stopped hiring from Jazz on a whim for what 2-3 months last year, even though they were behind on their “quota”, but kept on hiring from other companies.

So I really don’t understand why, if your goal is AC, you would come to Jazz and handicap yourself by being here. They will start and stop hiring from Jazz to protect their own operation and the pilots who hoped for a quick road to AC will sit and suffer while pilots at other airlines keep getting hired at AC.

Suffer from both slowest path to ac and industry worst pay. No upside coming here at the moment.

[cdnavater]

For the PMA, AC is behind hiring, for 2022 what 300 pilots from Jazz? For 2023 they are supposed to add those 300 pilots to this years “quota”. AC will not hit those numbers. AC will reduce hiring from Jazz this summer which will put them further behind.
You need to stay at Jazz for 2 years before you “qualify”. If you go elsewhere, you are not bound by the two years.
AC always slows hiring in the summer and holidays (Christmas) due to training pilot availability/vacation/busy flying.
AC stopped hiring from Jazz on a whim for what 2-3 months last year, even though they were behind on their “quota”, but kept on hiring from other companies.

So I really don’t understand why, if your goal is AC, you would come to Jazz and handicap yourself by being here. They will start and stop hiring from Jazz to protect their own operation and the pilots who hoped for a quick road to AC will sit and suffer while pilots at other airlines keep getting hired at AC.

Suffer from both slowest path to ac and industry worst pay. No upside coming here at the moment.

Let’s be factual here or prove your statement with credible information, it is not the industry worts pay, it might be the lowest starting regional pay but not that far off from the others and the pension contribution is higher than most if not all bringing the total compensation up to basically even. I can guarantee no other regional pays as much on the top end, prove I’m wrong

[truedude]

For the PMA, AC is behind hiring, for 2022 what 300 pilots from Jazz? For 2023 they are supposed to add those 300 pilots to this years “quota”. AC will not hit those numbers. AC will reduce hiring from Jazz this summer which will put them further behind.
You need to stay at Jazz for 2 years before you “qualify”. If you go elsewhere, you are not bound by the two years.
AC always slows hiring in the summer and holidays (Christmas) due to training pilot availability/vacation/busy flying.
AC stopped hiring from Jazz on a whim for what 2-3 months last year, even though they were behind on their “quota”, but kept on hiring from other companies.

So I really don’t understand why, if your goal is AC, you would come to Jazz and handicap yourself by being here. They will start and stop hiring from Jazz to protect their own operation and the pilots who hoped for a quick road to AC will sit and suffer while pilots at other airlines keep getting hired at AC.

Suffer from both slowest path to ac and industry worst pay. No upside coming here at the moment.

Let’s be factual here or prove your statement with credible information, it is not the industry worts pay, it might be the lowest starting regional pay but not that far off from the others and the pension contribution is higher than most if not all bringing the total compensation up to basically even. I can guarantee no other regional pays as much on the top end, prove I’m wrong

Let's be clear, what Jazz pays its F/Os is down right criminal. It is disgustingly low, with 1900 operators paying more. We have people living pay check to pay check having to use prediams to supplement their crap pay. That isn't okay. And when you add the amount of deductions, it is disgusting.

As for our top pay, Porter now pays their E2 guys around 200 at the top. And since that is who we are losing pilots too, that is who we need to match.

Airline management has spent decades bringing down our wages and it is time to correct that. But they won't give it up easily. We need to support each other and essentially shove the reality of higher wages down management's throat until they cough up money. And I am prepared to watch Jazz go into bankruptcy before we accept anything less than what we are worth. They don't get to pick and choose where they want to fix things.