Calgary Flight Training

[rse1]

Hello, all. I'm based in Calgary, and have narrowed down my choices for my PPL and eventual CPL to either CFC or Kanata for reasons of proximity and, from what I could tell, lack of scandal. I'm searched the forums on CFC, and opinions ranged from the school not having enough instructors to others singing it praises. These comments were also in 2022, so I was wondering if anyone had recently had any experience at CFC?

Kanata is also an option for me, in that since it's smaller, I don't think I'll have too much trouble booking airtime. If anyone has any opinions on them as well, I'd love to hear them.

Thank you!

[Reinhard]

I've also heard good things about both CFC and SATC. You shouldn't go wrong with either, as long as you make a solid effort in not only your own training, but also in developing a good working relationship with your instructor.

Avoid MRU, unless you want to pay for the privilege of cosplaying as a pilot working under abusive management.

Not familiar with Kanata. But a quick look through their website didn't show any fee structure information, but instead they give you a rough estimate on the lump sum cost to get your PPL. Red flag IMO.

[airway]

I've also heard good things about both CFC and SATC. You shouldn't go wrong with either, as long as you make a solid effort in not only your own training, but also in developing a good working relationship with your instructor.

Avoid MRU, unless you want to pay for the privilege of cosplaying as a pilot working under abusive management.

Not familiar with Kanata. But a quick look through their website didn't show any fee structure information, but instead they give you a rough estimate on the lump sum cost to get your PPL. Red flag IMO.

Reinhard is right about the costs. You need to compare the cost per hour for the aircraft, simulator, and instructor. These 3 costs are going to determine 90% of your total cost at a regular flight school. Another question I would ask is "Could I fly with an instructor every day if I wanted?"

I would not rule out MRU. The total cost will be more but you are getting an Aviation Diploma from a government recognized University (an Aviation Diploma from Joe's Flying Club does not mean much), and you have a chance of being hired at Jazz if you are a good student.

Yes, there are problems at Jazz right now, but if I had had a chance at flying at a Regional Airline right out of school I would have taken it.

[rse1]

I've also heard good things about both CFC and SATC. You shouldn't go wrong with either, as long as you make a solid effort in not only your own training, but also in developing a good working relationship with your instructor.

Avoid MRU, unless you want to pay for the privilege of cosplaying as a pilot working under abusive management.

Not familiar with Kanata. But a quick look through their website didn't show any fee structure information, but instead they give you a rough estimate on the lump sum cost to get your PPL. Red flag IMO.

Would you mind elaborating on the red flags? This'll be my first time ever looking at schools so I wanted to make sure I wasn't being scammed. I did head over there and talked with the owner who seemed like a nice guy. I asked him about the actual flight training part and he told me that I'm to put in small amounts of money and they'll withdraw from it as I fly, and then I can add more as I go. He told me I should look to try to fly 3x a week, and if I asked him if I could do more, that it was possible.

I'm just not sure if I was asking the right questions but I'd love your advice!

[flyndad]

DO NOT pay any money in advance- pay as you fly. There is a warning flag right there.

[Blowin' In The Wind]

As previously mentioned: absolutely stay away from paying up front. I have seen this scenario play out for the worse so many times.

CFC and SATC are just fine. MRU is fine too, however it is quite expensive and I’d argue that an aviation diploma is a bit of a waste. The college program is good if you require the structure, CFC is good if you’re a self-started and can keep yourself on track. You’ll certainly spend less at a flight school vs a college program, but no one will be holding your feet to your fire unless your instructor does it themselves which really is not their job.

Best of luck.

[rse1]

Just for clarification, when you say pay as you fly, does that entail literally only paying when I walk into the school and fly an airplane that day? In a sense, I'm basically paying as I would "renting" the plane, so it would be in very small increments?

Edit: to clarify, I had asked the owner and he said they would have students e-transfer $2000 or so and they would just slowly withdraw from that account as I flew.

[Blowin' In The Wind]

A flight school should be charging you for a flight once you return from said flight.

Ie “you’ve flown 1.4 hrs, and 0.3 ground briefing time with the instructor, your total today is $X.”

Quite commonly practiced to have a credit card on file, but asking for cash up front for services not yet rendered is unusual.

It’s not your job to lend money to a flight training unit.

[Bede]

Just for clarification, when you say pay as you fly, does that entail literally only paying when I walk into the school and fly an airplane that day? In a sense, I'm basically paying as I would "renting" the plane, so it would be in very small increments?

Edit: to clarify, I had asked the owner and he said they would have students e-transfer $2000 or so and they would just slowly withdraw from that account as I flew.

Red flag.

Payment at an FTU should be the same as payment to a restaurant.

[albertdesalvo]

they would have students e-transfer $2000 or so and they would just slowly withdraw from that account as I flew.

How convenient... for THEM. And if they go bankrupt the day after you've given them $2K? Run, Forrest, run!

[airway]

More questions:

What class instructor would you get? Class 1 or 2 is ideal. Avoid Class 4.
Can you stay with the same instructor for most of the training? Switching instructors is a pain and usually ends up costing you more.
Details on airplanes and simulators they have. What kind. How many. Age. Are they on the property right now or planned?
Are the simulators approved for Instrument time?
How long has the school been operating? Some schools do not last very long. That's why you pay after each flight, do not put any money down ahead of time, keep your logbook up to date and signed by the school regularly.

[yhz41]

More questions:

What class instructor would you get? Class 1 or 2 is ideal. Avoid Class 4.
Can you stay with the same instructor for most of the training? Switching instructors is a pain and usually ends up costing you more.
Details on airplanes and simulators they have. What kind. How many. Age. Are they on the property right now or planned?
Are the simulators approved for Instrument time?
How long has the school been operating? Some schools do not last very long. That's why you pay after each flight, do not put any money down ahead of time, keep your logbook up to date and signed by the school regularly.

Ok good luck with getting someone that isn't a class 4. Keep those standards high.

[Blowin' In The Wind]

More questions:

What class instructor would you get? Class 1 or 2 is ideal. Avoid Class 4.
Can you stay with the same instructor for most of the training? Switching instructors is a pain and usually ends up costing you more.
Details on airplanes and simulators they have. What kind. How many. Age. Are they on the property right now or planned?
Are the simulators approved for Instrument time?
How long has the school been operating? Some schools do not last very long. That's why you pay after each flight, do not put any money down ahead of time, keep your logbook up to date and signed by the school regularly.

Ok good luck with getting someone that isn't a class 4. Keep those standards high.

lol. Flight schools have never nor will they ever pay enough or offer some strategic advantage to keep instructors beyond the 1000-1500 hour mark. You just have to roll with the punches. People will come and go - don’t be the person that alienates FTU staff by ranting and raving about being switched. Take charge of your own training, study hard and always be prepared. Instructors are a resource, but I’ve seen too many students lean on them like they’re their grade-school teacher who should be holding their hand. If you can’t be a self-starter it in a benign environment like an FTU, how do you think your aviation career out in the real world is going to go?

[Squaretail]

More questions:

What class instructor would you get? Class 1 or 2 is ideal. Avoid Class 4.

Ok good luck with getting someone that isn't a class 4. Keep those standards high.

Ideally you want a class 3 or 4 who is well supervised by a good class 1 or 2. Ask about how your instructor will be monitored and if it does come up, if its ok to switch between them. You don't need or necessarily want the CFI as your instructor, if its a good school, they will be busy in their managing and supervising duties. Watch out for a school that the CFI does most of the flying.

There is also the mistake in believing that class of instructor equals instructor's skill, which isn't always the case. Remember a class 2 can have as low as 730 hours.

[photofly]

Take regular photographs of the content of your Pilot Training Record as you go along, so that it can't be lost, destroyed, or held from you as any kind of threat or inducement. Remember you are free to continue your training at any other FTU at any time, but you will want an up-to-date copy of your PTR to be able to do that.

That, by the way, is another reason not to leave money on account: it's a disincentive to evaluate your own training, if at the end of each lesson the training unit always has some (even a little) of your own money that you can only "use" by coming back for another lesson.

[Big Pistons Forever]

The ONLY sensible way to pay for your training is pay as you go. That means on completion of each lesson or flight you pay for that event. Many, many students have been burned by schools that took their money up front and then stopped operating or just screwed them over with extra fees and charges.

If the school insists that you must pay up front then I would seriously look elsewhere. If you feel they are the only viable option than I would not put more than 1000 dollars on account, and be prepared to loose all of it.

[yowflyer23]

Does anybody have any recent experience with Kanata Aviation in High River? Not a whole lot of information out there on them.

[flyndad]

Will be there this coming week, will let you know.

[yowflyer23]

Cool thanks!

[flyndad]

From what I saw they run a professional organisation and the owner very easy to talk to as well.

[yowflyer23]

From what I saw they run a professional organisation and the owner very easy to talk to as well.

Do they make you deposit money up front or do they have hourly rates and pay at the end of your lesson?

[flyndad]

No one can make you pay up front, that is the choice of you, the customer. Just pay as you go.

[Beefitarian]

So that makes 4 options around Calgary if you count AirPockets in Bieseker?

https://iflyapa.com/

[uniformalpha]

Did you ever check out Kanata? Any reviews on them?

[hereweare]

hello, I am a student at Kanata Aviation and I happen to come across this forum by accident. I just finished getting my PPL with them and will continue to get my IFR, multi ratings as well as CPL. My reasons for continuing is because it is a well run school and it's truly there for your learning, not for your pocket like those horror stories all across the world and the recent Okotoks story.

I can only comment on what I have observed, experienced during my time at Kanata (4 months now). How you use this information is always up to you.

- Uncontrolled airspace was a huge factor as I was able to pay for more flying rather than waiting on the ground. Later on in your training you will learn how to do radio calls in controlled airspace so it doesn't make a huge difference if you'd want to learn radio calls in a controlled airspace right off the bat.
- I am a huge fan of supporting local business ONLY if they are hardworking business owners involved in everyday operations. I've found a few in Calgary in different business sectors, and I must say Kanata is one of them.
- Owner Kevin and Pedro are the dynamic duo. One of them overseas everyday operations as well as manage the student's schedule. The other is a flight instructor and does the administrative and payment side of the business. What I like is that they always ask for feedback from their instructors to create the best outcome for the student and their progression. At least that is what happened to me, I was pretty bad at my circuits so they managed to get me some other hours I need for the PPL as well as polish off my circuits, instead of just stuck in the circuit until "I get it". They are also almost always available on site to answer any of your questions.
- Instructors, you might get them switch for a while. At first it might confuse you a bit. But after I had the mentality to keep an open mind, I was able to learn even more from different perspectives on the same flight exercise. Pretty much gives you an option to approach the same objective and it's up to you what you prefer and helps you the most. They are all patient, cover all the topics and necessary items during preparatory ground instruction and they make sure that all the questions you have are all answered before going up in the air. They are also available to answer any questions you have after the flight exercise at any time.
- Airplanes are Diamond 20 and well maintained. I've been there when the air time is up for maintenance and seen them pull the airplane right away for maintenance. They do rotate you on the 3 Diamonds they have, I must say I also got confused a bit at the beginning because each of their attitudes can differ a bit for cruise, climb, descend. This also taught me that no matter what airplane I am flying, always keep learning about the airplane.
- The big money topic. They suggest deposit but they also have different methods of payment. You don't have to do the 2000 right away, start with something like $300 or pay CC after each flight. You just have to talk to Pedro and come up with a solution that is best for you. I've observed other students pay with CC (I think there is a fee if you use CC). I am comfortable enough to start deposit the recommended $2000 after I know my money won't go away from me. There's a lot of times I owe them money, like my balance was -200 to -600. Pedro reminds me via text and I deposit when I'm near a PC. Keep in mind this is after Pedro and I established a silent agreement that we won't scam each other out by our actions on how we handle money to each other.
- Rates are comparable to other schools, and you get invoice and rates after you fly. The suggested cost listed on their website is largely based on the average individual and the learning curve. For example, for me I did have to spend a bit extra for my PPL because my learning curve is slower than average in a few areas. Do note that this also applies to other schools. They will post the cost but it is largely dependent on you and your learning progress.
- Students, they all range from young to older adults, different ethnicity, there's men and women. Pretty much very diverse. I don't see any discrimination or racism here. I've seen students right out of high school, students that have a part time job and learning when they can, students that are older adults with established jobs learning only during weekends.
- They suggest fly 3 - 4 times a week. The reasoning behind is because of how we learn generally. I have experienced that if I don't fly often, my body and visual cues of what I have learned will not be as accurate as if I kept flying. My brain is up to date with knowledge, but my body might not. This will also ensure that you are making progress towards your goal without wasting money "relearning" from not flying often. I've seen students booked every day and got their PPL in about 2 months. The one older adult with established job I had a chance to talk to, they got their PPL slowly because they only fly one day a week. Always student dependent. For me, my sweet spot is once every other day. Everyday was too much and fewer than 3 times a week made my progression slow.
- Biggest con would be the weather. Be prepared for your flight training to be cancelled because of the weather. Either it's snow, too much wind, too bumpy to learn. Depends on how far you have progressed, sometimes my flight instructor will take me on a bumpy day, which is not very effective at learning but I still learned how to deal with the wind while doing my lessons in that type of condition. For me I find it more fun and challenging.
- Best part: any questions you ask is never stupid. Just ask away and they will answer as best as they can for you to understand. I did ask some very dumb questions and yet they kept straight face and walked me through what I don't understand until I understand.

That's all I have for you. Hope you find what you are looking for when you're getting your license in whatever school you decide!