‘‘Twas the night before ALPA

[RippleRock]

.

[Bede]

Real professionalism in this career (one that neither you, nor I made), includes leaving it in better shape than when you or I got here. We have watched the decimation of a relatively through contract over the last 20 years. It's a freaking disaster. Both you and I are responsible.

The least we can do is get out of the friggin way while the junior Membership tries to right a ship we were so determined to capsize to benefit anyone but them.

Massive +1

[Crewbunk]

The least we can do is get out of the friggin way while the junior Membership tries to right a ship we were so determined to capsize to benefit anyone but them.

Hear hear!

The Junior Membership has the drive and if ALPA is voted in, they’ll have tools. As I march closer to retirement, I am truly envious as this generation builds their future.

[dontcallmeshirley]

Bragging we make more money than a regional carrier or a LCC is pathetic.

I would like to point out that a first year FO at Encore is making $52.51 an hour with 900 hours per year. On top of that, they are taking home $850 per month flat rate.

That means that an Encore Q400 first year FO is making around $85 per year in base salary than an Air Canada 777 first officer.

[Crewbunk]

That means that an Encore Q400 first year FO is making around $85 more per year in base salary than an Air Canada 777 first officer.

Good for him. In his fifth year, that 777 F/O will make about $180K/yr. How’s that Encore F/O doing? In his 12th year, that 777 F/O will make about $263K/yr.

(85 hrs a month, no VO, no draft, half day/half night, 2023 wages compounded 2% raise yearly).

But you’re right, a Saskatoon layover in mosquito season is much nicer than Sydney, Australia, Tokyo, Paris or Santiago, Chile. Makes the $85 worth it all.

[BTD]

That means that an Encore Q400 first year FO is making around $85 more per year in base salary than an Air Canada 777 first officer.

Good for him. In his fifth year, that 777 F/O will make about $180K/yr. How’s that Encore F/O doing? In his 12th year, that 777 F/O will make about $263K/yr.

(85 hrs a month, no VO, no draft, half day/half night, 2023 wages compounded 2% raise yearly).

But you’re right, a Saskatoon layover in mosquito season is much nicer than Sydney, Australia, Tokyo, Paris or Santiago, Chile. Makes the $85 worth it all.

I think you missed his point.

[skyhighh]

That means that an Encore Q400 first year FO is making around $85 more per year in base salary than an Air Canada 777 first officer.

Good for him. In his fifth year, that 777 F/O will make about $180K/yr. How’s that Encore F/O doing? In his 12th year, that 777 F/O will make about $263K/yr.

(85 hrs a month, no VO, no draft, half day/half night, 2023 wages compounded 2% raise yearly).

But you’re right, a Saskatoon layover in mosquito season is much nicer than Sydney, Australia, Tokyo, Paris or Santiago, Chile. Makes the $85 worth it all.

How much experience is required to go right seat at Encore VS Air Canada? After 10+ year of experience do you think it’s normal that an Air Canada FO on a 787 can’t pay rent and need a second job? Come on…

[stall]

That means that an Encore Q400 first year FO is making around $85 more per year in base salary than an Air Canada 777 first officer.

Good for him. In his fifth year, that 777 F/O will make about $180K/yr. How’s that Encore F/O doing? In his 12th year, that 777 F/O will make about $263K/yr.

(85 hrs a month, no VO, no draft, half day/half night, 2023 wages compounded 2% raise yearly).

But you’re right, a Saskatoon layover in mosquito season is much nicer than Sydney, Australia, Tokyo, Paris or Santiago, Chile. Makes the $85 worth it all.

I think you missed his point.

Indeed

The fact we are comparing a Regional low cost carrier Q400 pilot to a legacy 777 pilot pretty much sums up how Canuckistan pilots lost the plot

[Crewbunk]

I think you missed his point.

I believe you are correct. I apologize.

But …. to reflect on the point, (and others). Yes, it is possible for someone on flat pay to sit in the right seat of a Triple. It’s less of a flat pay matter and more a matter of extreme pilot hiring and being placed where needed. While preferences are acknowledged and efficiency dictates that new hires are awarded as close as possible to that preference …. some oddities do pop up.

But, I think the greater oddity is that there is a possibility that both the F/O and the R/P could be on first year flat pay!

No one thinks flat pay is anything but an abomination, an indication of how the “old” ACPA treated junior pilots. But honestly, as long as there is a line-up to join AC, I can’t see it changing any time before contract renegotiation.

[RVR6000]

I think you missed his point.

I believe you are correct. I apologize.

But …. to reflect on the point, (and others). Yes, it is possible for someone on flat pay to sit in the right seat of a Triple. It’s less of a flat pay matter and more a matter of extreme pilot hiring and being placed where needed. While preferences are acknowledged and efficiency dictates that new hires are awarded as close as possible to that preference …. some oddities do pop up.

It’s not a possibility, it is a reality. We currently have tons of wide-body FO’s on flat pay. Soon it will be several hundred. Where does all that cost savings go for the company, when the FA’s in the back are making more than the SIC of a $300 million jet?

It’s ACPA’s failure over the past 20 years for not respecting the profession and not respecting the positions/responsibilities accordingly. How hard was it to put a simply clause in the contract that wide-body FOs will be on formula pay only.

[RVR6000]

That means that an Encore Q400 first year FO is making around $85 more per year in base salary than an Air Canada 777 first officer.

Good for him. In his fifth year, that 777 F/O will make about $180K/yr. How’s that Encore F/O doing? In his 12th year, that 777 F/O will make about $263K/yr.

(85 hrs a month, no VO, no draft, half day/half night, 2023 wages compounded 2% raise yearly).

But you’re right, a Saskatoon layover in mosquito season is much nicer than Sydney, Australia, Tokyo, Paris or Santiago, Chile. Makes the $85 worth it all.

It’s funny how you’re compounding 2% raises annually, cause in 2012 FOs and RP pay rates dropped by 20-30%. ACPA took those reduced rates in 2014 and gave it a 2% a year and called it a 23% raise. In reality it took 6-7 years just to catch up to those old pay rates.

[Crewbunk]

It’s funny how you’re compounding 2% raises annually, cause in 2012 FOs and RP pay rates dropped by 20-30%. ACPA took those reduced rates in 2014 and gave it a 2% a year and called it a 23% raise. In reality it took 6-7 years just to catch up to those old pay rates.

With 2% annually in the current contract, It’s tempting to say, looking to the future that ACPA couldn’t do any worse. The last 20 years have proven me wrong.

Fingers crossed.

[Crewbunk]

It’s ACPA’s failure over the past 20 years for not respecting the profession and not respecting the positions/responsibilities accordingly. How hard was it to put a simply clause in the contract that wide-body FOs will be on formula pay only.

Preaching to the choir buddy, preaching to the choir.

[BTD]

I think you missed his point.

I believe you are correct. I apologize.

But …. to reflect on the point, (and others). Yes, it is possible for someone on flat pay to sit in the right seat of a Triple. It’s less of a flat pay matter and more a matter of extreme pilot hiring and being placed where needed. While preferences are acknowledged and efficiency dictates that new hires are awarded as close as possible to that preference …. some oddities do pop up.

But, I think the greater oddity is that there is a possibility that both the F/O and the R/P could be on first year flat pay!

No one thinks flat pay is anything but an abomination, an indication of how the “old” ACPA treated junior pilots. But honestly, as long as there is a line-up to join AC, I can’t see it changing any time before contract renegotiation.

I would disagree. When I was hired, right seat 777 was min 15 years at the bottom of the list. Then flat pay came and every aircraft was the same for those first 4 years. If it weren’t for flat pay there would be a fraction of the number of new hire positions on the wide body F.o. Side.

It is flat pay and to some extent the massive hiring.

[PositiveRate27]

I think you missed his point.

I believe you are correct. I apologize.

But …. to reflect on the point, (and others). Yes, it is possible for someone on flat pay to sit in the right seat of a Triple. It’s less of a flat pay matter and more a matter of extreme pilot hiring and being placed where needed. While preferences are acknowledged and efficiency dictates that new hires are awarded as close as possible to that preference …. some oddities do pop up.

It’s not a possibility, it is a reality. We currently have tons of wide-body FO’s on flat pay. Soon it will be several hundred. Where does all that cost savings go for the company, when the FA’s in the back are making more than the SIC of a $300 million jet?

It’s ACPA’s failure over the past 20 years for not respecting the profession and not respecting the positions/responsibilities accordingly. How hard was it to put a simply clause in the contract that wide-body FOs will be on formula pay only.

It changes monthly but as of the latest equipment bid between the 777/787/330/767 fleets through all bases we have roughly 400 WB FO positions including vacancies that would be flat pay.

As mentioned earlier, those were previously 15 year jobs but our stellar contract has made them undesirable positions. Why work harder with a worse schedule and more responsibility for the same dismal pay?

ACPA truly is the only association that could pull off making the WB fleets undesirable for almost the first half decade of a pilot’s career.