Trudeau says he didn't force anyone to get vaccinated.

[rando]

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/tr ... -canadians

LOL.

Why can't he just own it. If he made a mistake just say so. "I forced vaccines on Canadians, maybe that was a mistake, maybe the policy was to authoritarian"

I wonder if my boss said I have to have sex with him or I'm fired.... Would Trudeau call this encouragement or force?

[flyndad]

Now that is too funny.

[accountant]

Pilots - "Wahhhh, we don't want the shot" "Wahhhhh, we deserve a 30% raise" "Wahhhhhh, Trudeau is horrible"

You all sound like entitled Laurentians.

[Yowdriver]

Pilots - "Wahhhh, we don't want the shot" "Wahhhhh, we deserve a 30% raise" "Wahhhhhh, Trudeau is horrible"

You all sound like entitled Laurentians.

Accountant..

You’ve played the victim card on the other forum
Said that pilot get paid too much just to “Auto pilot”, we choose big cities, we are x y and z

Pissed on everyone that remotely disagrees with you

And now this.


Is this all you do ? Go on forums and spread your negativity? Just take a click on your previous posts and all you see is negativity posts and confrontation with other pilots on what you believe is true etc.. I wish you were as correct as you are passionate about your asinine argument.

You need to take a break from avcanada.

Maybe try to be positive.. idk if that’s possible.. but one can hope


Toodles

[rooster]

Pilots - "Wahhhh, we don't want the shot" "Wahhhhh, we deserve a 30% raise" "Wahhhhhh, Trudeau is horrible"

You all sound like entitled Laurentians.

Been creepin accountants posts and I think he just created this account to troll the pilots on here. Whether he is one or not I do not care, but given the nature of his posts, I do not take him seriously one iota, and neither should any of you. He's like the short guy at a party with no voice or significance. He just gets ignored.

Carry on.....

[rando]

Well let me start by saying... WHAAAAA, Trudeau is horrible!

[Inverted2]

Worst PM ever. At this point I hope he stays on and truly finishes off the country scorched earth style. Then we can rebuild from the ashes.

[accountant]

Pilots - "Wahhhh, we don't want the shot" "Wahhhhh, we deserve a 30% raise" "Wahhhhhh, Trudeau is horrible"

You all sound like entitled Laurentians.

Accountant..

You’ve played the victim card on the other forum
Said that pilot get paid too much just to “Auto pilot”, we choose big cities, we are x y and z

Pissed on everyone that remotely disagrees with you

And now this.


Is this all you do ? Go on forums and spread your negativity? Just take a click on your previous posts and all you see is negativity posts and confrontation with other pilots on what you believe is true etc.. I wish you were as correct as you are passionate about your asinine argument.

You need to take a break from avcanada.

Maybe try to be positive.. idk if that’s possible.. but one can hope


Toodles

Quoted by pilots who piss on anyone who doesn't believe in their position and entitlements..... those who throw stones in glass houses....

Show me how you deserve significant increases after the significant losses your employers took during covid?

[accountant]

Pilots - "Wahhhh, we don't want the shot" "Wahhhhh, we deserve a 30% raise" "Wahhhhhh, Trudeau is horrible"

You all sound like entitled Laurentians.

Been creepin accountants posts and I think he just created this account to troll the pilots on here. Whether he is one or not I do not care, but given the nature of his posts, I do not take him seriously one iota, and neither should any of you. He's like the short guy at a party with no voice or significance. He just gets ignored.

Carry on.....

LOL, I get far from ignored but thanks for asking.

P.S How's bargaining going? Getting those outlandish gains you're asking for? Didn't think so.

[Crewbunk]

Show me how you deserve significant increases after the significant losses your employers took during covid?

Are you sure you’re an accountant?

This is Economics 101. Supply and demand. There are fewer experienced pilots than openings right now. Pilots are expensive.

I just bought $15,000 worth of wood last weekend for a project. The quote for wood was $4,000 pre-Covid. Supply and demand. I don’t think the trees are working any harder today than they were 5 years ago.

[CpnCrunch]

Are you sure you’re an accountant?

This is Economics 101. Supply and demand. There are fewer experienced pilots than openings right now. Pilots are expensive.

I just bought $15,000 worth of wood last weekend for a project. The quote for wood was $4,000 pre-Covid. Supply and demand. I don’t think the trees are working any harder today than they were 5 years ago.

If it's supply and demand, why on earth do you need a union?

[photofly]

If it's supply and demand, why on earth do you need a union?

For when there's no demand.

[Crewbunk]

If it's supply and demand, why on earth do you need a union?

Mostly because it would be unworkable for 5000 pilots to negotiate individually.

But, on a grander scale, everyone thinks a pilot union is all about negotiating a contract. While that is certainly a facet of a union, there are dozens of committees all uniquely focused on dozens of aspects of a pilots life. Only one is the negotiating committee.

Granted, generally it is the most visible and garners the most controversy. But, in no way the most important.

[cdnavater]

Are you sure you’re an accountant?

This is Economics 101. Supply and demand. There are fewer experienced pilots than openings right now. Pilots are expensive.

I just bought $15,000 worth of wood last weekend for a project. The quote for wood was $4,000 pre-Covid. Supply and demand. I don’t think the trees are working any harder today than they were 5 years ago.

If it's supply and demand, why on earth do you need a union?

Are you a pilot?
I only ask because anyone who is a pilot knows why we have unions, the companies would use and abuse the pilots and tell them there is 10 more who would take your job tomorrow if you don’t, unions mostly set working conditions and attempt to enforce them, the grievance committee at WJ is probably one of the more important ones based on anecdotal stories about how many time WJ has violated the contract.
Every shit company I worked at that didn’t have a union always ended the same, them threatening me with my job if I didn’t do something unsafe and me telling them to pound sand.

[CpnCrunch]

Are you a pilot?
I only ask because anyone who is a pilot knows why we have unions, the companies would use and abuse the pilots and tell them there is 10 more who would take your job tomorrow if you don’t, unions mostly set working conditions and attempt to enforce them, the grievance committee at WJ is probably one of the more important ones based on anecdotal stories about how many time WJ has violated the contract.
Every shit company I worked at that didn’t have a union always ended the same, them threatening me with my job if I didn’t do something unsafe and me telling them to pound sand.

I'm a pilot, but don't work in aviation. I think a union is useful for enforcing working conditions, but if you want higher wages (which is what this discussion is about), then changing jobs will generally achieve a higher income.

[cdnavater]

Are you a pilot?
I only ask because anyone who is a pilot knows why we have unions, the companies would use and abuse the pilots and tell them there is 10 more who would take your job tomorrow if you don’t, unions mostly set working conditions and attempt to enforce them, the grievance committee at WJ is probably one of the more important ones based on anecdotal stories about how many time WJ has violated the contract.
Every shit company I worked at that didn’t have a union always ended the same, them threatening me with my job if I didn’t do something unsafe and me telling them to pound sand.

I'm a pilot, but don't work in aviation. I think a union is useful for enforcing working conditions, but if you want higher wages (which is what this discussion is about), then changing jobs will generally achieve a higher income.

Well, due respect but that is not the case in Canadian aviation because changing jobs is always a downward movement to the bottom of another list at year one pay, which has been pointed out many times to be abysmal. The only exception is a few startups hiring direct entry Captains which won’t continue as FOs in the company become upgradable any expansion will be backfilled with new hire FOs.
Also, for most with some tenure it is barely a raise, even me at Jazz at the top pay would be a break even at best when you factor the DB pension I’d be giving up, so where is the benefit of switching and what’s it to you if we try to get paid like our counterparts south of us.
Edited to add, the union can only negotiate with the leverage they have, right now they have the supply shortage as leverage, history will back that up with our shit pay compared to south of us.
By the way, the discussion started out with Trudeau forcing vaccinations, not sure it strayed so far to unions and pay!

[photofly]

Are you a pilot?
I only ask because anyone who is a pilot knows why we have unions, the companies would use and abuse the pilots and tell them there is 10 more who would take your job tomorrow if you don’t, unions mostly set working conditions and attempt to enforce them, the grievance committee at WJ is probably one of the more important ones based on anecdotal stories about how many time WJ has violated the contract.
Every shit company I worked at that didn’t have a union always ended the same, them threatening me with my job if I didn’t do something unsafe and me telling them to pound sand.

I'm a pilot, but don't work in aviation. I think a union is useful for enforcing working conditions, but if you want higher wages (which is what this discussion is about), then changing jobs will generally achieve a higher income.

Well, due respect but that is not the case in Canadian aviation because changing jobs is always a downward movement to the bottom of another list at year one pay, which has been pointed out many times to be abysmal.

As we discussed on another thread, the seniority system (which has strong union support) is a disaster for the operation of a free market in pilot salaries, for this very reason. It makes it entirely impossible to move jobs for incrementally better pay, which is at the heart of supply/demand changes to salaries.

There may be strong demand for pilots right now, but the reason you aren’t seeing salaries go up the way you want is entirely because of the seniority system that ties pilots to their existing employer.

[cdnavater]

I'm a pilot, but don't work in aviation. I think a union is useful for enforcing working conditions, but if you want higher wages (which is what this discussion is about), then changing jobs will generally achieve a higher income.

Well, due respect but that is not the case in Canadian aviation because changing jobs is always a downward movement to the bottom of another list at year one pay, which has been pointed out many times to be abysmal.

As we discussed on another thread, the seniority system (which has strong union support) is a disaster for the operation of a free market in pilot salaries, for this very reason. It makes it entirely impossible to move jobs for incrementally better pay, which is at the heart of supply/demand changes to salaries.

There may be strong demand for pilots right now, but the reason you aren’t seeing salaries go up the way you want is entirely because of the seniority system that ties pilots to their existing employer.

Can’t argue that but not a single suggestion has come up for a better way, not to mention the biggest hurdle, the companies.
You would have to convince them the benefit which is obviously not in their favour as the system now handcuffs senior pilots and punishes those who move!
Show me a better way without unintentional consequences and I’m in!

[CpnCrunch]

Can’t argue that but not a single suggestion has come up for a better way, not to mention the biggest hurdle, the companies.
You would have to convince them the benefit which is obviously not in their favour as the system now handcuffs senior pilots and punishes those who move!
Show me a better way without unintentional consequences and I’m in!

What would be wrong with simply transferring seniority? I can't see how the current system benefits anyone.

The main problem I have with unions is that strikes are just fundamentally unfair. It's just not fair to hold everyone to ransom, and I have a fundamental aversion to unions for that reason.

How does current Westjet compare to the pre-union company, in terms of total compensation, relationships with services such as ramp staff, and general company-employee relations?

[cdnavater]

Can’t argue that but not a single suggestion has come up for a better way, not to mention the biggest hurdle, the companies.
You would have to convince them the benefit which is obviously not in their favour as the system now handcuffs senior pilots and punishes those who move!
Show me a better way without unintentional consequences and I’m in!

What would be wrong with simply transferring seniority? I can't see how the current system benefits anyone.

The main problem I have with unions is that strikes are just fundamentally unfair. It's just not fair to hold everyone to ransom, and I have a fundamental aversion to unions for that reason.

How does current Westjet compare to the pre-union company, in terms of total compensation, relationships with services such as ramp staff, and general company-employee relations?

Again, you are seeing the bad(in your opinion) in unions but every company gets the union it deserves and WJ has been systematically reducing the QOL for WJ pilots for along time. Ask them what they lost before the union drive.
A strike is a last resort and would not be happening if not for their antagonistic management style!
As for simply transferring seniority, we’ll get ahold of the airline management and ask them how they feel about that, I guarantee they are opposed, if you think otherwise you’re delusional.

[rooster]

Pilots - "Wahhhh, we don't want the shot" "Wahhhhh, we deserve a 30% raise" "Wahhhhhh, Trudeau is horrible"

You all sound like entitled Laurentians.

Been creepin accountants posts and I think he just created this account to troll the pilots on here. Whether he is one or not I do not care, but given the nature of his posts, I do not take him seriously one iota, and neither should any of you. He's like the short guy at a party with no voice or significance. He just gets ignored.

Carry on.....

LOL, I get far from ignored but thanks for asking.

P.S How's bargaining going? Getting those outlandish gains you're asking for? Didn't think so.

Thanks for asking? I didn't ask a single question.

How's bargaining going? Where? I think you're mistaking me for a pilot at an airline I don't work for